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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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ionadnapóca

Best is on my ignore list
A coach lives and dies by his selections. Its without question the hardest part of the job.
Farrell is on a very steep learning curve. Conversely he doesn't have the players available to make those selection choices harder!
Its imperative that he uses this 8 team thing to try and establish a new leadership group, a more balanced attack (eg. why not try Frawley at 12? v Wal or Georgia) and introduce Lowe, Baird, Casey & Lowry.

Niallof9

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I half jest with Zebo. But we need all the help we can get over the next 2 years.

The past 48 hours and 18 months have been a chastening experience for Irish rugby.

There is no hiding away from the fact anymore. We just aren't good enough to compete with the very best.

Very difficult to phase out Sexton, Healy, Earls and Murray when we have a dearth of talent in all of their positions and at FB.

We just need as many good players available as possible to compensate for the age profile, injuries and lack of form in the squad.
Farrell is facing down a path which is going to be very rough for the next 6 months.

fully agreed. but people will back him if he makes the right calls. He'll get time. If he's just going blindly with POM, Stockdale, Henshaw, Murray, Healy or Toner then i don't think people will be as forgiving at all. Its time to make the changes needed with no crowd pressure, the extra time Farrell got, the new competition, etc

the fact we have people still talking about details etc in regards to Lowe is really worrying talk. What detail did Stockdale take on board with the tackles on Sunday etc. Its nonsense. We need to start backing good rugby and play heads up rugby with less information. We became overloaded with detail over the last 18 months. So much so that Best argued this very point. Our bloody captain.

jacothelad

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

If Baloucoune were healthy, I'd have him and Lyttle on the wings for Ulster. He performed better than Stockdale for Ulster last season.

Having said that, our back three, on recent evidence, is not our greatest concern.

Stockdale looks all at sea in defence. He rushes in and as he has the turning circle of a mega tanker, invariably he gets stood up easily. He hasn't been wise enough or cool headed enough to use the touch line defence strategy. Lyttle is a bit lightweight but he is a good player and worth his place. Let's hope Baloucoune recovers well for both Ulster and Ireland.

Paul Smeenus

If Baloucoune were healthy, I'd have him and Lyttle on the wings for Ulster. He performed better than Stockdale for Ulster last season.

Having said that, our back three, on recent evidence, is not our greatest concern.

ionadnapóca

jacothelad wrote: »

...& lumbers. Fixed

I half jest with Zebo. But we need all the help we can get over the next 2 years.

The past 48 hours and 18 months have been a chastening experience for Irish rugby.

There is no hiding away from the fact anymore. We just aren't good enough to compete with the very best.

Very difficult to phase out Sexton, Healy, Earls and Murray when we have a dearth of talent in all of their positions and at FB.

We just need as many good players available as possible to compensate for the age profile, injuries and lack of form in the squad.
Farrell is facing down a path which is going to be very rough for the next 6 months.

shootermacg

I'd like to see Daly, Haley brought into the squad.
Both about 6'3 good in the air, good tacklers Haley is probably the better attacker, but Daly is very solid all round.

TomsOnTheRoof

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I woulnd't have stockdale in the 23

Agreed. Stockdale had a wonderful 2018 but there were always questions as to how things would go for him when the tries dried up. Defensively he struggles quite badly at times and for a man of his size he is very inconsistent under the high ball. That's not to say he can't find some form but I think he would be fortunate to make the Ulster 23 at the moment were it not for injuries.

aloooof

Isn't Italy the first game up? Could be more scope for change than we might otherwise see.

[Deleted User]

I woulnd't have stockdale in the 23

Niallof9

11. Lowe
14. Conway
15. Larmour
23. Stockdale

It's a complete no brainer at least unless Munster play Conway fullback.

realhorrorshow

I'm gonna go with:

11. Lowe
14. Conway
15. Daly
23. Larmour

Just want to see a fullback playing fullback and Daly seems like more of a natural than Larmour or Stockdale. Would probably go for Addison if he could ever get fit. Conway is the only essential selection, went for Lowe on the other wing but can see the case for Earls or Larmour. Don't know what to do with Stockdale, his confidence is clearly low and getting dropped won't help but don't think he's playing well enough to warrant selection right now.

TomsOnTheRoof

Buer wrote: »

Hard to argue with that back three. Larmour needs to go back to the wing where he played his best rugby for the most part.

Lowe is certainly not demanding a start for Ireland at this point. I'd say an attention to detail coach would rip him apart at times. One of the first up and unders of the game at the weekend and he just allowed Lewington to shove him out of the way. He was unaware and needed to be far more influential in preventing Lewington have a clear run.

I'd hope to see lads like Daly and Keenan involved in the Irish training camps also. There's significant potential there. It was good to see Keenan face top quality opposition and look like be belonged at the weekend.

I wouldn't cap him until he cuts his hair though. Let it be a lesson for him.

It would be great to see the likes of Daly and Keenan in the wider squads and I think Balacoune could even have had an outside chance of making the match day squad against the likes of Georgia if it weren't for the fact he's injured.

I agree with you on Lowe's fundamentals. I think the issue is that Stockdale and to a lesser extent Larmour (when playing fullback) also suffer from this. On current form Larmour probably looks the best of those three going forward and it may just be a case of picking the best attacking threat and working on their weaknesses in the meantime.

jacothelad

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I'd pick Keenan before Earls!

11 Lowe
14 Conway
15 Larmour

23 Lowry/Zebo.....& runs!

...& lumbers. Fixed

ionadnapóca

awec wrote: »

I'd pick Keenan before Lowe.

I'd pick Keenan before Earls!

11 Lowe
14 Conway
15 Larmour

23 Lowry/Zebo.....& runs!

bilston

Conway aside, I dont think anyone is demanding selection in the back 3.

FB is a massive problem. Larmour looks like a working progress and Stockdale can't tackle.

Its a pity Addison and Balacoune are both injured.

Shane Daly is an interesting one. Any time I've seen him play (only 3 or 4 games to be fair) he has been very impressive.

Niallof9

Don't get the automatic Earls selections.

Lowe has been incredible for a while. He one hundred per cent gets in the squad bar recent form.

Attention to detail...Joe isn't coach any more.

We haven't picked on form before, we've had people question if form actually exists on this forum regularly so why are we doing that now?

we need to start trusting our talent. Doris, Lowe, Baird all need caps this October. Larmour needs to be backed to do what he does best.

Squidgy Black

aloooof wrote: »

Before the return, I'd have went with:
11. Lowe
14. Conway
15. Larmour
23. Earls / Stockdale.

Now, I'd probably go:
11. Earls
14. Conway
15. Larmour
23. Lowe / Stockdale

Can absolutely see the case for switching Larmour and Conway, but since they're not starting there for their provinces, I wonder is that likely to go against it.

If you were going to leave Lowe out of the starting 15, I'd definitely go with Stockdale in the 23 shirt over him. As brutal as some of his defending has been, he's been much more flexible in terms of having played 15 a good bit recently as well as a few stints at 13 when injuries have racked up. Lowe has only played 11 since he's been here I think.

aloooof

Before the return, I'd have went with:
11. Lowe
14. Conway
15. Larmour
23. Earls / Stockdale.

Now, I'd probably go:
11. Earls
14. Conway
15. Larmour
23. Lowe / Stockdale

Can absolutely see the case for switching Larmour and Conway, but since they're not starting there for their provinces, I wonder is that likely to go against it.

awec

I'd pick Keenan before Lowe.

sydthebeat

Buer wrote: »

...
I wouldn't cap him until he cuts his hair though. Let it be a lesson for him.

wha??

keeps him warm while hes standing around, yet doesnt muffle the calls from the lads in field...

its the perfect wingers lid !!!

AbusesToilets

Like to see Lyttle and Keenan given a look. Not convinced by Larmour at FB, he's suspect under the high ball and still to prone to dancing instead of hitting the line imo.

Buer

Hard to argue with that back three. Larmour needs to go back to the wing where he played his best rugby for the most part.

Lowe is certainly not demanding a start for Ireland at this point. I'd say an attention to detail coach would rip him apart at times. One of the first up and unders of the game at the weekend and he just allowed Lewington to shove him out of the way. He was unaware and needed to be far more influential in preventing Lewington have a clear run.

I'd hope to see lads like Daly and Keenan involved in the Irish training camps also. There's significant potential there. It was good to see Keenan face top quality opposition and look like be belonged at the weekend.

I wouldn't cap him until he cuts his hair though. Let it be a lesson for him.

TomsOnTheRoof

So how do people see the back three shaping up following the last couple of weeks? Personally I'd like to see a trio of Conway, Earls and Larmour with Conway given a chance to show what he can do from fullback. I think Conway is our best all round back three player and could definitely do a job for us at 15. His defence is excellent and he's very assured under the high ball. Earls is getting on but I think he has a season left in him. Would like to see Lowe in the 23 Jersey. He's not been at his best since the return but Farrell will obviously still want to cap him and get a good look. What do ye think?

rayd3

bilston wrote: »

Of course they are No.2.

They got further in both competitions than either Munster or Connacht and hammered both those sides at the Kingspan.

Ulster didn’t get knocked out until Sunday so they lasted longer in the competition so they’re better than Leinster but Connacht beat Ulster a few weeks ago so they’re the best. Munster beat Saracens in Ireland during the season, they are second best.

bilston

aloooof wrote: »

Bad sign if we're arguing over who's 2nd best province, and is just an indication of how far ahead Leinster are tbh...

Stop making this about Leinster:D

UAEguy2020

aloooof wrote: »

Bad sign if we're arguing over who's 2nd best province, and is just an indication of how far ahead Leinster are tbh...

Is there a point in even debating that at this moment?

aloooof

Bad sign if we're arguing over who's 2nd best province, and is just an indication of how far ahead Leinster are tbh...

Paul Smeenus

Munster and Connacht have improved exponentially by not having to play crunch matches against better opposition in the last couple of weeks.

bilston

JJJackal wrote: »

Ulster may not be our second best province - certainly not on post lockdown form

Of course they are No.2.

They got further in both competitions than either Munster or Connacht and hammered both those sides at the Kingspan.

DeHood123

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Leinster actually did use channel one ball in the second half iirc. And hooked it cleanly and McGrath got it away super quick (from the feet of Doris no less!)

But your hooking strategy is totally irrelevant if you don't have the put in.

Leinster's scrummaging problem is Sean Cronin. This was known when he was selected. Koch had an absolute dream of a day on him. Leinster used to select around that (I remember Tracy starting against Munster because of that concern not too long ago). He was given the crook at half time but that was their biggest, maybe only, selection mistake yesterday. Cronin surely won't be risked against a 2/3 combo of that quality ever again.

But in reality scrums are a symptom of errors. Those errors and shocking control of the game were Leinster's problem yesterday and the inability to stop Koch just meant those errors were penalised more harshly. Even if we'd held every scrum, we were still going to be giving them first phase ball in our half. The scrum was not the losing of the game, the source of those scrums was the losing of the game.

I'm afraid I don't really have confidence that Ireland would have done any better. Ireland obviously are a better team all over but I don't think they are better where it mattered yesterday (half-backs, coaching)

Very harsh to totally pin the scrum woes on cronin
Did you watch the second half yesterday, 3 penalties conceded when he wasn’t on the pitch compared to 4 in first half....
Maybe take a look at our 6,7 and 8 all disengaged whiles the sarries 8 all had the squeeze on
I remember not too long ago Leinster made the champs Final after wins against Tolouse, Racing and Bath, all have big powerful scrums, and cronin was playing in every one of those games
Blinkered view on here when it comes to him
Too many people talking nonsense