Rodney Bathgate wrote: » Good riddance.
Beechwoodspark wrote: » You didn’t provide any proposals as far as I can see?? Edit: you’ve bowed out of the forum. Slàn Leat.
briany wrote: » A processing center in North Africa sounds like a reasonable idea, although there would be more that needs working out. You process the claim of someone without papers and decide their claim of asylum is bogus or insufficient. Do you send them away? Where to? Leave them in the processing center? How do you house an ever-growing population?
Someone without papers hears that the processing center could be a dead-end for their hopes of getting to Europe. They manage to get directly to Europe, and that country sends them back to the processing center. See above paragraph.
If their claim of asylum is found to be genuine, where do you send them to? Logically, you would have to send them to different countries, as I'm guessing no one country would want to, or could, take them all. Do you have a scheme where every country has to take a certain amount? How would countries like this? Did they like it when Merkel was talking about European countries taking a certain proportion of Syrian refugees?
TheCitizen wrote: » So you're going to tar them all with the one brush, is that it? Everyone in the camp was responsible for setting the fires and then trying to stop the firefighters?
weldoninhio wrote: » Have any of them come forward and pointed out the arsonists?
TheCitizen wrote: » I guess there's a wider consequence for major western democracies electing arseholes like Trump and Johnson as premiers. The far right loons become emboldened, moderate and reasoned opinion becomes marginalised especially online, even what was previously called the centre right or conservative opinion, ridiculed with terms like "cuckservative". The lunatics have taken over the asylum and hysteria reigns as certain agendas like this anti immigration stuff and buttons are pushed. I promised myself I wouldn't get sucked in to this spiral of bullshít that passes for debate on here :pac:. Slán a chara, enjoy your echo chamber.
Pixel Eater wrote: » Actually I believe it was the 'left's' naive, judgemental and sanctimonious attitudes towards immigration that have partly feuled the rise of the far right. A lot of moderates with some concerns about immigration felt they had no choice but to vote for them even if they never previously would have.
Deleted User wrote: » Actually, just to add something. I think what western nations should consider doing, is leasing large tracts of land in a variety of African countries.
Sand wrote: » I think there is legal difficulties with effectively deporting people from one country to another. An alternative would be to use European territories outside Europe (i.e. Caribbean, South America, Pacific Islands etc) for processing.
However, the aim of processing should be simply to return illegal migrants to their own countries and providing temporary refuge for genuine asylum seekers. I don't agree with creating an additional 'pull' factor for mass migration by offering free training, education and job skills for anyone who attempts to illegally enter Europe. And lets face it, the concept of Europeans teaching non-Europeans to be civilized isnt going to survive contact with post-colonial guilt.
da_miser wrote: » Answer me this if you can? We are told their is ethnic wars in Africa and Asia because the British drew borders that put different tribes/religions together, but are expected that when these different tribes/religions come here to Ireland /EU that they will all live in peace and harmony? We are told that these immigrants will strengthen our nation, but never told why they cant/dont strengthen their own?
Sloan Hundreds Village wrote: » Liberia in W.Africa seems to be having some custom/cultural/societal issues of late, making news headines. 'Liberia declares rape - a national emergency' It orders new measures to tackle spike in sex attacks (Only 2% of cases ever led to a conviciton, hence little in the way of a deterrent). 600 cases were recorded this summer in a small country of 4.5m, a doubling of May's 80-100 caseload for that month. The footballer-turned-president said Liberia was "witnessing what is actually an epidemic of rape within the pandemic, affecting mostly children and young girls across the country."
jmayo wrote: » I seriously don't know why some posters continue to try debate with some other posters on here. It is just sapping your will.
It is a waste of time, you are never going to change their mind.
They will never admit they may be wrong, that there may be something else at play, that things are not as simple or straightforward as being portrayed by vested interest groups, media outlets, etc. And as sure as hell you will be labelled the nearest thing to a high ranker at Nuremberg in the end. They don't see anything to debate, they just see people they detest simply because they do not agree with their social media acceptable narrative or the narrative pedaled by some NGO or other. And often the aim has been to drag you into something where you lose your cool and then it is you that is infracted and banned. They have then achieved their aim of shutting you up and stopping inconvenient non sanctioned thought.
The ignore option can be a wonderful release.
da_miser wrote: » Answer me this if you can? We are told their is ethnic wars in Africa and Asia because the British drew borders that put different tribes/religions together, but are expected that when these different tribes/religions come here to Ireland /EU that they will all live in peace and harmony?
We are told that these immigrants will strengthen our nation, but never told why they cant/dont strengthen their own?
Deleted User wrote: » I don't consider it as deportation since that would assume that they have a right to be there. Only asylum seekers, have a special status. Economic and other refugees who seek entry without permission are illegal, and so can be sent wherever.
It's just those who are firmly fixated on Europe as a destination who would avoid the centers.
There are plenty of educated Africans and others who are currently living within the borders of Europe, or externally, who could be paid to teach in Africa, especially if the carrot of citizenship in the EU is a "special"/limited incentive.
And I don't agree that this creates an additional pull factor, since there's doesn't need to be an additional pull... they're already being pulled regardless.
As for Europeans teaching, and post colonial guilt, I believe that's mostly a NGO/activist line (since they love to make extreme statements), rather than reality. I've taught (both adults and minors) in a variety of countries which had a colonial past, as a volunteer, and I didn't receive any of this supposed negative backlash to teaching. In every instance, I received gratitude. And I know from my uncle who is a Jesuit, and who has worked in Africa for five decades as a teacher, that he's had very little negative response, except on a government (political) level. The people themselves are grateful for any help that improves their lives.
Sand wrote: » I don't think its that simple. Otherwise the long line of failed asylum seekers and illegal migrants would be getting deported quickly and easily from Europe. Prior to each deportation there's a long process of investigation and legal process. Once they land on your shores, its very, very, very hard to remove them.
It should be possible to sidestep that by processing migrants on European territory outside Europe itself. You're not deporting them but you are holding them abroad.
The problem for Europe is those people however. If they're not migrating to Europe then its not a significant concern for us.
I'd disagree with citizenship as a carrot on two points. 1) If the aim of the programme is to upskill non-European peoples and encourage them to make a life in their own countries, then offering citizenship in Europe as a reward is sends the wrong message. 2) There is no reason to offer citizenship as money will be motivation enough.
And we should eliminate those pull factors. The existence of those pre-existing factors doesn't justify offering more benefits to those who migrate.
Sure, non-European peoples may have little or no hangups about it but this is a European initiative organised by European governments and funded by European tax payers. The idea of Europeans mentoring Africans is going to make them cringe.
Deleted User wrote: » My will is perfectly fine, thanks. I'm quite an argumentative kind of person (I think that's obvious), and it may be selfish, but each "debate" streamlines my arguments, so that my logic/rational is just a little bit better each time. Some day, I'll be consistently as good as Wibbs. He's my boards role-model. I'm not so sure about that. I find that many of those, like TheCitizen, don't actually engage in a debate, and so, it makes me think that they're just out to push buttons, by encouraging emotional reactions (which are easy to counter). So, while he/she isn't engaging in the topic, they're still reading a lot of the material... and I can hope the simple logic is settling into their consciousness. I figure that many of the rather shallow posters we've had on this thread recently, don't really engage in the discussion, and are just trolling out of boredom. I dunno... it's boards. The old politics and humanities forums were the same, and yet, we're still here posting our opinions, in the hope of some reasonable debate. Let me put it this way. I love my job as a lecturer/teacher because I debate business topics, such as ethics with my students. They don't have the depth of knowledge that I have, nor the maturity/experience to really appreciate the world as it really is... and so, I often run into various levels of stupidity, and naivety, which they cling to, as if they're afraid to see something they don't want to see. It can be frustrating but at the same time, a lot of fun. Nah. I've got about three people on my ignore list, and I don't tend to add to it. There's no point, unless it's someone who really pisses me off, like El_D does. TheCitizen might like to think that he's gotten under my skin, but... nope. Not even slightly. He's an amateur at being an annoyance. So.. the ignore option, I reserve for the experts.
TheCitizen wrote: » OK I’ll bite. Clearly I’ve taken up residence inside your head:pac: What an arrogant rambling pile of dung that post of yours is. Try a bit of your own advice and stick to the topic. Truth is you’ve had your say over and over again and you’re just bumping your gums now. I’ve had my say on this issue and I did debate it and offer my own ideas of solutions, it didn’t fit in with has is increasingly becoming an echo chamber on here, and so you call me out even though I had stopped posting on the thread. Sad stuff. You’ll respond to this no doubt with further lies and further arrogance but you’ll get some more likes from the rest of the echo chamber no doubt. Whatever blows your hair back eh. Unbelievable. Wibbs is your hero on here, says it all
Hamachi wrote: » Translation: I’ve had my ar*e handed to me repeatedly in debate by Klaz, Wibbs et al. I don’t have any legitimate proposals or solutions to the migration challenge. I’ll spout some vague nonsense about visas for asylum seekers, a humanitarian approach for unaccompanied minors, and dismiss illegal migration because the Irish went to the US in the 1980s, something, something... Finally, when all my arguments have been dismissed and my belligerence called out, I’ll throw a diva-like, hissy fit and run away from the forum, accusing all those who disagree with me of being ‘loons’ and participating in an echo chamber. What a delight to see you return..
TheCitizen wrote: » So if a debate is at an end that means I’m running away from the forum. Nah, Ive better things to be doing than repetitively going around in rings with the likes of the two you mentioned.
TheCitizen wrote: » OK I’ll bite. Clearly I’ve taken up residence inside your head:pac: What an arrogant rambling pile of dung that post of yours is. Try a bit of your own advice and stick to the topic.
Truth is you’ve had your say over and over again and you’re just bumping your gums now. I’ve had my say on this issue and I did debate it and offer my own ideas of solutions, it didn’t fit in with has is increasingly becoming an echo chamber on here, and so you call me out even though I had stopped posting on the thread. Sad stuff.
You’ll respond to this no doubt with further lies and further arrogance but you’ll get some more likes from the rest of the echo chamber no doubt. Whatever blows your hair back eh. Unbelievable. Wibbs is your hero on here, says it all
[Deleted User] wrote: » Um... when/where have you managed to run rings around either Wibbs or myself? :pac::pac::pac: You haven't come even close to countering anything either of us posted. You seem completely oblivious about your own posting history on the thread. Hilarious.
TheCitizen wrote: » What’s all this about Wibbs? Does he live inside your head as well LOL
Deleted User wrote: » Um... when/where have you managed to run rings around either Wibbs or myself? :pac::pac::pac: You haven't come even close to countering anything either of us posted. You seem completely oblivious about your own posting history on the thread. Hilarious.
TomTomTim wrote: » Screaming insults is beating people at debate according to the progressive mindset.
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://w9.vanillicon.com/v2/9c6ef39403f5dc93bd4b9e77a11c1821.svg)
