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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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GavRedKing

Our company has been WFH for the last 6 months or so, circa 250 people. Personally, theres a few distractions but nothing major IMO.

I'd have no issues going back to the office tomorrow either but there doesn't seem to be anything happening to quickly.

We've another office in Dublin in a similar situation and with the stricter measures returning to Dublin recently I think we'll be WFH in some capacity for another few months.

We were sounded out for a return to work with about 25% capacity, social distancing, PPE, the whole lot and I said I'd have no issues with it anyway.

namloc1980

WFH a few days a week and a few days in the office is the ideal scenario in my view. My company is actively reducing office space in Cork and Dublin to a c.50% capacity level and they've already said that essentially once we get back to a post-Covid world it'll be 2-3 days at home and 2-3 days in the office for everyone each week. Massive savings in rent and utilities while still having the benefit of people in the office as needed.

Employers that insist on having people in the office every day will lose people who will want more flexibility.

rino87

Unpopular opinion I know but WFH is driving me nuts...my home is just not cut out for it I work in tech and not having a separation between work and home is not ideal.

I'm not the only one feeling like this, office space is not going to go away - having a dedicated desk, maybe.

Shedite27

bingo9999 wrote: »

Hard to know at this stage - Microsoft just signed a huge lease for Dublin Landings to co locate with salesforce. Google may be back too, they could be using the breathing space they have at the moment to save for now and/or drive a better deal in a few months time. Im saying that hoping there is some rebalancing after covid, I think a remote or at least hybrid working model for the knowledge economy has proven itself and for personal and environmental, and *additional* office lease cost reasons theres upsides for everyone. I wouldnt like to be a hiring manager in the coming years for a company that insists on having people in 9-5 Mon-Fri.

I get a feeling this WFH model was great for a few months but people are slowly getting itchy feet to move away from it. I know in my world, people are dying to get back to having people to go for coffee breaks, lunch, Friday pints etc with, so once they become an option again, people will be keen to get back a few days a week.

The bigger issue will be longer to develop. How do you manage a Graduate intake when everyone's working remotely. The coaching, training and showing people by doing is very hard to replicate remotely.

I also suspect there will be studies done as to the promotion opportunities from WFH, it's a lot harder to break down barriers and get to know people when you're only on Zoom calls.

mire

75% occupancy in an development upon completion in a scheme of this size in a pandemic in a city of Cork's size is remarkable.

The city centre has approximately 25,000 jobs in all sectors [2016 figures] - the 4 large office developments in recent years (Albert quay/Navigation square/Penrose dock/Horgan's quay) have capacity of around 10,000 to 12,000 office jobs.

This is probably equivalent to a doubling of the city centre's office employment in a very short time period. All of these jobs could have ended up in suburban office parks on greenfield sites.

snotboogie

Mav11 wrote: »

I just wonder is google walking away from a new development in Dublin, a one off or a sign of things to come?

https://www.thejournal.ie/google-dublin-property-market-5202251-Sep2020/

That development seems to have been a stopgap for google while more space is being built for them at Bolands Quay. Hard to predict what will come but that story was blown way out of proportion imo.

bingo9999

Hard to know at this stage - Microsoft just signed a huge lease for Dublin Landings to co locate with salesforce. Google may be back too, they could be using the breathing space they have at the moment to save for now and/or drive a better deal in a few months time. Im saying that hoping there is some rebalancing after covid, I think a remote or at least hybrid working model for the knowledge economy has proven itself and for personal and environmental, and *additional* office lease cost reasons theres upsides for everyone. I wouldnt like to be a hiring manager in the coming years for a company that insists on having people in 9-5 Mon-Fri.

Its good for Cork/rest of Ireland too if people who dont necessarily want to be in Dublin but whos company is based there to have flex to work remote and buzz up on the train for a few days a month

Mav11

snotboogie wrote: »

Most were announced post covid. 75% would be a decent return at any time. Saying that, Navigation Square across the way is struggling for tenants.

I just wonder is google walking away from a new development in Dublin, a one off or a sign of things to come?

https://www.thejournal.ie/google-dublin-property-market-5202251-Sep2020/

snotboogie

Mav11 wrote: »

Which means it’s 25% empty. I’d imagine most of those leases were entered into pre covid.

Most were announced post covid. 75% would be a decent return at any time. Saying that, Navigation Square across the way is struggling for tenants.

Mav11

Treviso wrote: »

Penrose dock is 75% full already

Which means it’s 25% empty. I’d imagine most of those leases were entered into pre covid.

Treviso

Mav11 wrote: »

Will all this additional office space be needed in the near, middle future?

Penrose dock is 75% full already

Captainsatnav

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Its an appalling monstrosity, doesn't fit into the area at all and even if there were other buildings similar in style, it would still look awful.

Ah jesus christ

Mav11

Will all this additional office space be needed in the near, middle future?

Treehelpplease

What is it supposed to fit into? One storey warehouses? ITs a brand new area. Every building everywhere didn't fit into its area until everything was built up around it. It's also incredible looking especially on the ground in person

Chris_5339762

Its an appalling monstrosity, doesn't fit into the area at all and even if there were other buildings similar in style, it would still look awful.

fonecrusher1

namloc1980 wrote: »

Looks great.

Hmm I dunno the mostly derelict land that was there had a sort of old charm about it.

namloc1980

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Looks great. Such a shame the apartments on the adjoining site have been put on the long finger.

neddynasty

cantalach wrote: »

Not one of them wearing a mask!

They're outdoors!

ScrubsfanChris

opus

Crows Nest's site yesterday.

cantalach

Apogee wrote: »

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/09/16/thursdays-papers-50/

Not one of them wearing a mask!

Apogee

attachment.php?attachmentid=526561&stc=1&d=1600296082

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/09/16/thursdays-papers-50/

Apogee

Echo wrote:

Quakeside Ltd submitted a planning application for the construction of a four to six-storey development which would incorporate office and hotel use at the former Moore’s Hotel site on Morrison’s Quay, as well as the conservation of a number of protected structures to accommodate office buildings earlier this year. It was initially granted by City Hall’s planning department but was subsequently appealed to An Bord Pleanála. The developer then withdrew the application and submitted a new one to Cork City Council in July. Quakeside Ltd has now been granted conditional permission for the latest development, which incorporates numbers 9 to 14 Morrison’s Quay, 5 to 5A Fitton St, 1 Keeffe St, and adjoining lands backing onto Catherine St and Keeffe St.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Go-ahead-for-hotel-and-office-development-in-city-centre-85e7ae4e-1891-44e2-ba13-16ba86ea8252-ds

marno21

2 new residential development SHDs have gone in today. Both on the extremities of commuter towns

150 units (112 houses + 38 apartments) at Monacnapa, Blarney: www.monacnapashd.ie

113 units (59 houses + 54 apartments) at Maglin Road, Ballincollig: www.maglinshd.ie

marno21

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40049207.html

While the move has been welcomed by some of the region’s largest developers, John Cleary Developments — which has planning for a 25-storey apartment building on the city’s south quays — said the 50% reduction alone won’t be enough to make apartment developments viable in the city centre.

O’Callaghan Properties asked for an increased reduction in charges in the city centre and docklands area to stimulate growth on brownfield sites but Ms Doherty said the scheme is designed to provide a stimulus for residential development specifically while still retaining the ability of the council to deliver identified infrastructure.

Should be a "by any means necessary" drive here to stimulate apartment building in the city centre. The external benefits of such a measure would far outweigh development contributions.

Tomtom364

whisky_galore wrote: »

It ain't necessarily so.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/28/ban-all-glass-skscrapers-to-save-energy-in-climate-crisis

Building a glass box that relies solely on mechanical air conditioning for cooling should be discouraged and challenged.

However combing a glazed facade with appropriate energy efficient methods can be very beneficial

One Angel Square, Manchester for example.

https://www.designbuild-network.com/projects/one-angel-square/

In fairness to the proposed developments, they tend to have the glass box look at least broken up a bit, The Prism and Port tower certainly are going glass box look, but Railway Gardens, Victoria road, Sextant Tower, Jacobs island all do a nice job of breaking up the walls of glass with other materials.

whisky_galore

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Do people here who dislike the use of large quantities of glass in modern buildings (particularly office buildings) understand the major benefits of it with regards to energy consumption, environmental impact, running costs etc

It ain't necessarily so.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/28/ban-all-glass-skscrapers-to-save-energy-in-climate-crisis

Shedite27

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Do people here who dislike the use of large quantities of glass in modern buildings (particularly office buildings) understand the major benefits of it with regards to energy consumption, environmental impact, running costs etc

I'm looking forward to the boom in the absail-window-cleaner business

Mav11

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Do people here who dislike the use of large quantities of glass in modern buildings (particularly office buildings) understand the major benefits of it with regards to energy consumption, environmental impact, running costs etc

We do.

Tomtom364

Do people here who dislike the use of large quantities of glass in modern buildings (particularly office buildings) understand the major benefits of it with regards to energy consumption, environmental impact, running costs etc