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Electrical Heating

Neilw

Hi all,

Are there any energy efficient electric heaters available?

I’ve seen all sorts of wall mounted radiator type heaters but I don’t want to buy something that ends up either costing a fortune or gives out poor heat.

I’m heating a 5m x 8m room, it’s an insulated mezzanine floor in a workshop.

Thanks.

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Lenar3556

Nat gas would be I suppose if you are lucky to be served by a pipeline - LPG tends to be more expensive. And you have some efficiency losses with both of those.

The Devi system is underfloor so the plan would be to have sufficient ‘storage’ in the screed.

I know it’s not for everyone, but I do think electric heating be it in the form of heat pumps or otherwise will be the future when matched with renewables and smart metering.

2011

Lenar3556 wrote: »

8.5c per KW is not bad!

Gas is still cheaper.
Besides people what heating during peak times too.

Lenar3556

Is it fair to say that it is always very expensive?

Particularly if you can use night rate.

A friend of mine built a new house about ten years ago and installed the Devi mat system throughout. He swears by it - says the running cost rarely exceeds €1000 per year and the house is greater than 3000sq ft.

8.5c per KW is not bad!

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

...when you take transmission and other losses external to the heater. However the electrical heater itself is very close to 100% efficient. Yet it is still a very expensive way to heat a home.

It is expensive because the high efficiency conversion of energy from electricity to heat, is not what the user is paying for. They are paying for the energy before the conversion. 2kw of heat from the element probably takes 4kw at the start.

That is like having a diesel generator at the end of the garden, generating electricity, then wondering why it is so expensive to heat the house with the 100% efficient heaters.

2011

Bruthal wrote: »

Electric heating is a long way from 100% efficient.

...when you take transmission and other losses external to the heater. However the electrical heater itself is very close to 100% efficient. Yet it is still a very expensive way to heat a home.

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

Many people confuse “efficiency” with “cost effective”. They are not the same thing.

People confuse, or more accurately, fail to separate the final conversion at the point of use, with/from an entire process beginning far from their location.

Electric heating is a long way from 100% efficient.

long_b

2011 wrote: »

No appreciable difference. Electric heaters are best avoided where possible as they are so expensive to run.

Many people confuse “efficiency” with “cost effective”. They are not the same thing.

Point noted - cost effective would be my main concern

Tails142

long_b wrote: »

Sorry to hijack - but have a similar question.
Working in an out house with thick walls. It's getting chilly out there.

Would a portable electric oil filled radiator be more efficient than an electric fan heater?

While what people are saying about efficiency is true, how the heat is delivered can make a difference.

A good type for a shed is one that radiates heat rather than heats the air. Bar heaters and halogen lamps are like this, there are infra red types that don't give out light but they're expensive. It just means you start feeling the heat straight away so you don't have to wait for the the room to fill with hot air. The halogen lamp ones can be got for €20

A good thing about oil filled radiators is there is no exposed element though so they're a safer option if you're going to have it on the ground. My cat used to rub up against the halogen lamp style one on the ground and singe itself.

2011

long_b wrote: »

Sorry to hijack - but have a similar question.
Working in an out house with thick walls. It's getting chilly out there.

Would a portable electric oil filled radiator be more efficient than an electric fan heater?

No appreciable difference. Electric heaters are best avoided where possible as they are so expensive to run.

Many people confuse “efficiency” with “cost effective”. They are not the same thing.

long_b

Sorry to hijack - but have a similar question.
Working in an out house with thick walls. It's getting chilly out there.

Would a portable electric oil filled radiator be more efficient than an electric fan heater?

2011

It’s a scam.

All electrical heaters produce the same amount of heat for the same cost. They are all equally efficient.
The only reason that they cost less to run than their predecessor is because they provide less heat!

Electrical heating is always far more costly than most alternatives.

PCros

Just wondering if anyone has purchased an Eco Panel Heater and if there has been any obvious savings.

I'm looking to get one for our shed that would be on a timer.

https://purchase.ie/product/all-products/eco-panel-heater

2011

ted1 wrote: »

The house is an ex-council house, mid terrace two up two down with a kitchen extension. So might have a poor BER but it’d actually not be to bad.

That would help but I would be confident that it would be a long way off an A rating.

If you strip out the heating system.

I have never hear of anyone stripping out and not replacing a heating system because they are afraid it would leak. Once installed properly it should never leak. Just do it properly and don’t worry about it. Mine doesn’t leak and I modified a lot of it despite the fact that I am not a plumber. It’s really not that difficult to connect pipes properly.

There’s one bathroom upstairs and a sink and washing machine in the kitchen so minimal pipe work.

So at least 2 sinks with hot and cold water taps, a tank in the attic, a hot water cylinder, at least one toilet, a bath or shower perhaps a dishwasher and all of these need drains too. That adds up to a lot of connections.

I think you have a solution that is desperately looking for a problem to solve.

Most modern homes are actually installing more pipe work for underfloor heating, heat pumps, en suites, more zoning etc. and do not appear to have the concerns that you have.

As this home is rented I wouldn’t advise investing much of your own money in it if I were you.

ted1

2011 wrote: »

If you house has a very high BER rating (A3 for example) and solar panels (for heating water) you may find that the gap between the cost of electric heating and gas has reduced significantly. However for homes with lower BER ratings electrical heating would be far more expensive overall.

It is not normal for a central heating system to leak, besides a home without central heating still has lots of pipework that could theoretically leak.

The house is an ex-council house, mid terrace two up two down with a kitchen extension. So might have a poor BER but it’d actually not be to bad.

If you strip out the heating system. There’s one bathroom upstairs and a sink and washing machine in the kitchen so minimal pipe work.

I had thought that I could add PV +Storage which would bring it up to the same cost as the Gas system. But as it’s rented PV offers no benefit to me.

2011

ted1 wrote: »

I’m looking for alternatives too.
I’ve a house I rent out and the gas heating system needs to be replaced. I’ve had a quite if about 6k. For a boiler, 7 rads and pipe work.

I’m thinking I could install 7 electric heaters for about 3,500. Snd not have to worry about leaks or servicing. So while gas may be cheaper there’d be no standing charge 150 or annual service 100. Which would cover higher running costs.

Any thoughts?

If you house has a very high BER rating (A3 for example) and solar panels (for heating water) you may find that the gap between the cost of electric heating and gas has reduced significantly. However for homes with lower BER ratings electrical heating would be far more expensive overall.

It is not normal for a central heating system to leak, besides a home without central heating still has lots of pipework that could theoretically leak.

ted1

I’m looking for alternatives too.
I’ve a house I rent out and the gas heating system needs to be replaced. I’ve had a quite if about 6k. For a boiler, 7 rads and pipe work.

I’m thinking I could install 7 electric heaters for about 3,500. Snd not have to worry about leaks or servicing. So while gas may be cheaper there’d be no standing charge 150 or annual service 100. Which would cover higher running costs.

Any thoughts?

2011

seandeas wrote: »

Thanks mate, I guess those oil filled radiators are good but I’m looking for something a bit more permanent to replace the storage heaters.

There is no reason that they need to be any less permanent.
Personally I would prefer the heat from an oil filled rad, it is less dry than a storage heater.

2011

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Have you tried a plug in oil filled radiator? Also halogen heaters are good. Neither are too heavy on costs.

Actually all electrical heaters are very expensive to run. 1kW of heat for one hour consumes 1 unit of electricity regardless of whether an oil filled rad or a halogen heater is used. Unfortunately a unit of electricity costs far more than a unit of gas.

I know this because we had a boiler blowout end of Feb (Gas), and when lockdown happened well no one would do anything. Bought both the above and survived, and the bills were grand (less even) than normal, but that was to be expected.

With respect this is not a very scientific way to conclude that the above heaters are cheap to run. The mild weather during lockdown and estimated electricity bills could have been the reason for the bills being reasonable.

Only issue we had was using the Immersion for water heating, but it was ok.

Immersions are just another type of electrical heater. How did you decide this was an issue but the other two electrical heater types were "grand" ?

Back to gas now and new boiler.

That makes sense.

bobbyy gee

electricity is expensive

what's her ratings of house

https://www.statista.com/statistics/418082/electricity-prices-for-households-in-ireland/

seandeas

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Have you tried a plug in oil filled radiator? Also halogen heaters are good. Neither are too heavy on costs.

I know this because we had a boiler blowout end of Feb (Gas), and when lockdown happened well no one would do anything. Bought both the above and survived, and the bills were grand (less even) than normal, but that was to be expected.

Only issue we had was using the Immersion for water heating, but it was ok.

Back to gas now and new boiler.

Thanks mate, I guess those oil filled radiators are good but I’m looking for something a bit more permanent to replace the storage heaters.

Spanish Eyes

seandeas wrote: »

Folks, I’ve a small apartment with two 20 year old storage heaters, one in the hall and the other in the sitting room. The one in the sitting room has stopped working and I’m thinking of replacing rather that repairing it. Can anyone offer any opinions on which is better - new storage heaters, or Ecovolt or Fahro? I’m out and about a lot and it seems wasteful to have a warm apartment heated by storage heaters when there’s no one home. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you 😊

Have you tried a plug in oil filled radiator? Also halogen heaters are good. Neither are too heavy on costs.

I know this because we had a boiler blowout end of Feb (Gas), and when lockdown happened well no one would do anything. Bought both the above and survived, and the bills were grand (less even) than normal, but that was to be expected.

Only issue we had was using the Immersion for water heating, but it was ok.

Back to gas now and new boiler.

seandeas

Folks, I’ve a small apartment with two 20 year old storage heaters, one in the hall and the other in the sitting room. The one in the sitting room has stopped working and I’m thinking of replacing rather that repairing it. Can anyone offer any opinions on which is better - new storage heaters, or Ecovolt or Fahro? I’m out and about a lot and it seems wasteful to have a warm apartment heated by storage heaters when there’s no one home. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you 😊

adrian92

I think that the reset switch is when a storage heater does not heat up at all.
In this case the problem is temperature control.

Seems like a thermostat failure

Zarco

2011 wrote: »

As far as I recall the reset button needs to be pressed when they can’t switch on. It’s like a high cut out stat. It’s been a while but I think we needed a small pointy screwdriver to do it.

Ya

It should be the control stat at fault if the op has turned it right down

I don't recall any problems with them

2011

As far as I recall the reset button needs to be pressed when they can’t switch on. It’s like a high cut out stat. It’s been a while but I think we needed a small pointy screwdriver to do it.

meercat

buzz11 wrote: »

Sound, I'll find it - I've reset ones before -- this is useful;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9MguvffPaE

It’s unlikely to be the reset button.
Storage heaters are tricky to regulate the output. It’s actually just a mechanical vent that opens/closes to let the heat out. Check that this vent is functioning correctly.

buzz11

bobbyy gee wrote: »

thermostat is stuck is there a reset button

Sound, I'll find it - I've reset ones before -- this is useful;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9MguvffPaE

bobbyy gee

thermostat is stuck is there a reset button

buzz11

Hi

I've a dimplex night storage heater that only operates at full heat, I've adjusted the input dial but it still puts out full heat every night.

What could be at fault?

ercork

maxamillius wrote: »

Thanks for the reply’s lads, some interesting food for thought there regarding the heat pumps.

What’s actually involved in installing air to air?

Regarding the house, they got outbid and it’s now at 640k, imagine that, a house with no CH and an F BER rating!

Air to air is basically an air conditioner. An outdoor unit is installed against the back wall of your house and the indoor unit gets installed the other side of the wall and just blows out warm air at a steady rate. It is possible to separate them by several metres with ducting but the shorter the distance the better.

This will work fine for an open plan setup. Otherwise, it is possible to run several indoor units off one outdoor unit. Another option would be to get two heat pumps and put one to the front and one to the rear of the house. Or maybe one upstairs and one downstairs. They cost between 1500 and 2000 each.

There are quite a few posts on here about them. If you did want to investigate further, it would be best to get an installer out to the house.