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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

RyanthePirate

I would like to see a Boards.ie Consensus.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy and this immigration is surely a wonderful thing for the county.

Agree/Disagree?

Mod:

I have updated the OP of this thread with a list of threadbanned users, I would advise posters to check on this before posting in the thread again or a forum sanction will be imposed for breaching same.

If you want to discuss your threadban feel free to PM the banning mod (or myself if you can't remember who that is and I'll point you in the right direction).

Threadbanned Users:
DelaneyIn
TheCitizen
V8 Interceptor
Hamachi - lifted 14/03/22, reinstated 28/03/22
Effects
biko
Kivaro
Eric Cartman
Swindled
Gradius
RobbieTheRobber - lifted 25/08/21 - reinstated 27/08/21
Cordell - lifted 16/08/21
Gangster Yippin
blindjustice
Eircom_Sucks
TomSweeney
Wojtek the Bear
Cordell
klaz
0ph0rce0
tonium22
tonycascarino
Real Donald Trump
Star Bingo
Nuts102
TomTomTim
Nosler
Absolute Zero
Hungry Burger

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bobbyy gee

I don't like
isms

TheCitizen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You avoided the previous questions put to you, and chose to focus on Biko's suggestion about a referendum. Your response to me, had nothing to do with what I asked about, and so, I didn't bother replying to it.

As for being an echo chamber, that's only because those who, like you, want to disagree, don't commit to arguing your points, instead, only make vague statements and wander away... just to pop back in to dismiss others' contributions. Or try to connect us with stormfront, or make suggestions of racism, without, again, backing up your statements with anything approaching evidence.

And as for illustrating points... your responses continue to validate what I said previously about your presence on this thread.

Which previous questions were these that I avoided, I’m losing track? If I avoided previous questions or just had forgotten them what’s that to do with you avoiding my question? Is that you justifying refusing to answer my question?

TheCitizen

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

The news is saying there are suspicions the migrants themselves set the camp on fire

This needs to be investigated urgently

Out of the question that the arsonists should be rewarded in any way

What news? Can you link to this story?

TheCitizen

Hamachi wrote: »

Oh, I’m so sorry that I don’t agree with you. Please add me to the basket of deplorables, along with the nazis, fascists, and other figments of your imagination.

The narrative around migration is changing. People aren’t willing to accept the platitudes that have been trotted out for the last several decades. You’re going to need a very large basket in future sir.

Who are these “people” you’re talking about.? So called “people” on here is it, yellow vest types is it?

Sir Oxman

Deleted User wrote: »

They won't be unaccompanied for long. They'll have their extended families over quick enough after. One foot in the door before the whole gang crowds in. Makes sense to use our sympathies for small children as a way to get in.

I just wanted to clear up why O'Gorman would be involved.

tayto lover

I have no issues with people from other cultures coming to Ireland as long as they’re not here to freeload from my taxes. We have enough of our own wasters to look after.

[Deleted User]

Sir Oxman wrote: »

I think the reason O'Gorman is highlighted is that ireland have been asked to take in unaccompanied minors which falls under the Dept of Children, so I believe.

They won't be unaccompanied for long. They'll have their extended families over quick enough after. One foot in the door before the whole gang crowds in. Makes sense to use our sympathies for small children as a way to get in.

Sir Oxman

I think the reason O'Gorman is highlighted is that ireland have been asked to take in unaccompanied minors which falls under the Dept of Children, so I believe.

[Deleted User]

irishblessing wrote: »

What's a "lower class job?" Where did you extract any of that from anything I said. What's with the singling out of Black people anyway. Seems like a personal problem.

This thread is weird.

It's extracted from where you expect 'other reasons', apart from a persons CV, as being acceptable in allowing migrants into Europe. It's an obvious connection to make considering your statements on the subject.

It's also obvious enough what a lower class job is, although it could have been phrased better. -- They're jobs which typically do not require much in the way of education or training, and as such, are paid substantially less than other jobs which do require levels of education, experience etc.

One of the problems with allowing migrants in irrespective of their education/skills, is that they will only be capable of doing the most basic of jobs. We already have a population of native people who, for various reasons, don't have the education/skills, or mindset to do higher level positions, and as such those lower skilled jobs are mostly occupied. When they're not, we do have labor from the EU with existing EU citizens capable of meeting those needs. Especially, since the economies of many southern nations within Europe do have economic problems, and fairly high unemployment, so there's little sense importing more unskilled labor from completely different cultures.

Leading on from that problem (unskilled/uneducated workforce), by bringing migrants who don't have the skills to be self-sufficient without extra benefits such as welfare, in addition to their basic wages... so, these people will require support by the Taxpayer for a long time.

Added to that, is the resentment that many such migrants will be bound to feel, because they're unable to experience the higher quality of living that most Irish people experience, because they can't afford to do so. Activist groups and NGO's plug the line about fairness for minorities, which is only going to encourage resentment because there's little emphasis on personal responsibility for the state of their lives. Instead, the expectation will be for the State to provide them with the income/benefits so that they can have a comparable kind of lifestyle as someone who is working professionally. When the State fails to meet such an unrealistic expectation, that resentment will transform into social instability... which has been seen in many European countries already.

And as for education, and training, I stated this earlier, which I guess you ignored... but throughout Europe, nations have had extremely mixed results with educating migrants to bring them up to a comparable level with other Europeans... and even greater failures in teaching the local language.

So.. if half of the migrants you want to be admitted, fail to upskill, or learn the language, who is expected to support them? And during the period it takes to attempt to educate them, who is supporting them financially? Learning a language well enough for work beyond the most basic routines takes years, especially if their own native language is so culturally different. (There's no guarantee either that the other half on acquiring the language/skills, will be able to get gainful employment)

Allowing in migrants for reasons other than their education/skills is extremely expensive to the taxpayer, with little evidence that the burden is diminished over time.. especially since migrant applications are likely to increase due to changing conditions in many of the countries we already see large applications from.

[Deleted User]

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Just said on news that Roderick O Gorman is considering taking migrants from the camp in Greece

Absolutely appalling that O’Gorman is even considering taking in migrants from Moria. He has zero mandate to take decisions of this nature. If this comes to pass, the credibility of the Greens plummets to a new low.

Beechwoodspark

The news is saying there are suspicions the migrants themselves set the camp on fire

This needs to be investigated urgently

Out of the question that the arsonists should be rewarded in any way

statesaver

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Green party got 7% of the vote. Yet we ended up with him and Ryan in positions of power.

In real life he has no mandate. Banana republic

Membership of less than 3000.

ExMachina1000

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Just said on news that Roderick O Gorman is considering taking migrants from the camp in Greece

The footage is alarming.

It showed gangs of men trying to ransack a truck

Let it be on o Gormans head if he imports MORE trouble into this country

Green party got 7% of the vote. Yet we ended up with him and Ryan in positions of power.

In real life he has no mandate. Banana republic

Beechwoodspark

Just said on news that Roderick O Gorman is considering taking migrants from the camp in Greece

The footage is alarming.

It showed gangs of aggressive men trying to ransack a truck

Let it be on o Gormans head if he imports MORE trouble into this country

4068ac1elhodqr

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The migrants in Greece came there of their own free will, it was themselves who set fire to the camp and stopped emergency services getting access to it.

And now we are being asked to take these criminals in?

No thanks.

From memory think a TV news report said it was COVID positve lads that refused outright to isolate, who burnt down the place.

If this is the case, hold any assumption of those chaps wearing facemasks on public transport.

Rodney Bathgate

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The migrants in Greece came there of their own free will, it was themselves who set fire to the camp and stopped emergency services getting access to it.

And now we are being asked to take these criminals in?

No thanks.

Makes you wonder who really burnt down the centres in Ireland. Don’t want to be sent outside of Dublin e.g. to Rooskey? Burn it down so it can’t happen.

Galwayguy35

irishblessing wrote: »

The federal government providing... :pac::pac::pac: The people of the US have received ONE payment of 1200 dollars since the pandemic began and a massive backlog of processing unemployment payments. Nearly three quarters of people in the US are one pay check away from homelessness and utter disaster. The richest country in the world provides for their military prowess and the top 1%. "They" voted for. Hilary Clinton actually, nearly 3million more people did. Do you not know this?

Yeah, I'm advocating for humanity and humaneness. Guilty as charged. Think about your own compassionate holes why don't you.

Before you get too smug about your amazing skills that allow you to live abroad, consider the fact that you received an education in a country that safely supported you to do so. Many don't have that opportunity.

Irish people commit crimes too. I only brought up that story to illustrate the point that people contribute positively to society in ways not pointing to a skill on their CV.

The migrants in Greece came there of their own free will, it was themselves who set fire to the camp and stopped emergency services getting access to it.

And now we are being asked to take these criminals in?

No thanks.

[Deleted User]

irishblessing wrote: »

Yes, your solutions did indeed resonate with me. I do believe that we need sound immigration policy which doesn't of course massively disadvantage the people of our own country. Do you think anyone actually thinks otherwise? Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but I just don't think the only consideration to asylum seeking is the skill one has on a CV. In every society there are those who have valuable contributions to a community. They can also do work that many highly educated/skilled (or otherwise) just won't do but is absolutely critically needed in our economy. People are also trainable with the right support

You’re conflating two distinct strands of migration here (i) asylum seeking and (ii) economic migration. We’ve already agreed on a potentially equitable solution to the former. However, I do want to reiterate my point that asylum should not be re-framed as permanent resettlement. Europe’s capacity to assist the truly needy is finite. When conditions improve in the land of origin, those asylum seekers should be encouraged to return home.

My ‘no dice’ comment pertains to the latter. Economic migration, by its very nature, is intrinsically predicated on skills and the content of one’s CV. If Ireland identifies skills gaps in specific sectors e.g. tech, healthcare, we invite suitably qualified migrants to help fill those labour shortages. This cohort should be welcomed and provided with a transparent path to citizenship. However, there should be little tolerance for migrants entering the country on temporary visas e.g. language students from Latin America, who then persistently overstay after their visas have expired. If people do not fulfill the criteria for skilled migration, I stand by my ‘no dice’ comment. I also do not believe it is the responsibly of Ireland to provide support or education to migrants who have ostensibly presented themselves as skilled.

Migration is complex. There has to be a degree of compassion, tempered with the realism that the Irish and European peoples have a right to live in their homelands, without being subject to a demographic overhaul. I also believe that other developed nations outside Europe could step up more. The asylum intake of the US is relatively low. The affluent societies in the Far East, Japan and Korea for instance, admit virtually zero asylum seekers. Finally, the oil rich countries along the gulf of Arabia are actively hostile to asylum seeking, despite their economic strength. They could play a significant role, particularly in absorbing culturally compatible asylum seekers from majority Islamic societies.

irishblessing

AllForIt wrote: »

So you're happy to see a high incidence of black people here working in lower class jobs, shops etc OR give them free third level education.

What's a "lower class job?" Where did you extract any of that from anything I said. What's with the singling out of Black people anyway. Seems like a personal problem.

This thread is weird.

AllForIt

irishblessing wrote: »

Yes, your solutions did indeed resonate with me. I do believe that we need sound immigration policy which doesn't of course massively disadvantage the people of our own country. Do you think anyone actually thinks otherwise? Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but I just don't think the only consideration to asylum seeking is the skill one has on a CV. In every society there are those who have valuable contributions to a community. They can also do work that many highly educated/skilled (or otherwise) just won't do but is absolutely critically needed in our economy. People are also trainable with the right support.

So you're happy to see a high incidence of black people here working in lower class jobs, shops etc OR give them free third level education.

irishblessing

Hamachi wrote: »

Actually, I was the poster who made the statement ‘no dice’ in relation to economic migrants who seek to come to Ireland, without having the requisite skills. I own that statement and believe that it’s a sensible approach to economic migration. Whether you think that’s a cold / cold hearted approach to regulating migration is immaterial to me.

I believe my position is pretty strong and grounded in logic. The solution I proposed to asylum seeking certainly seemed to resonate with you. It’s always rewarding to find some common ground with somebody who appears to hold diametrically opposed views.

You can leave it as cold please, which is what I actually said. We'll agree to disagree on that point.

Yes, your solutions did indeed resonate with me. I do believe that we need sound immigration policy which doesn't of course massively disadvantage the people of our own country. Do you think anyone actually thinks otherwise? Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but I just don't think the only consideration to asylum seeking is the skill one has on a CV. In every society there are those who have valuable contributions to a community. They can also do work that many highly educated/skilled (or otherwise) just won't do but is absolutely critically needed in our economy. People are also trainable with the right support.

I would also want countries to seek to help those who are displaced be able to return to their own countries. The problems often seem so insurmountable though, so I don't know how that could be achieved. People far smarter and more powerful than me haven't figured it out over the decades so I don't know what the solution is.

LessOutragePlz

It will be interesting to see how this pans out. Personally I'd be in favour of Ireland taking in less asylum seekers and tightening up our immigration policies so we only allow skilled migrants in that are going to be net contributers to the economy and not a burden on the state or tax payers.

[Deleted User]

TheCitizen wrote: »

Another one, leaving out what doesn’t suit. It’s becoming an echo chamber on here resembling the old Stormfront website or the likes of it.

Oh, I’m so sorry that I don’t agree with you. Please add me to the basket of deplorables, along with the nazis, fascists, and other figments of your imagination.

The narrative around migration is changing. People aren’t willing to accept the platitudes that have been trotted out for the last several decades. You’re going to need a very large basket in future sir.

Tokyo

TheCitizen wrote: »

Another one, leaving out what doesn’t suit. It’s becoming an echo chamber on here resembling the old Stormfront website or the likes of it.

Mod: 'Stormfront' has become the new Godwinning of threads it seems. Please make a better effort to discuss properly, or don't post.

[Deleted User]

irishblessing wrote: »

This misquoting and putting words in others mouth is ridiculous. I never, not even once said or branded anyone "cold hearted" as you claim I did and even put into quotes.

Here's what I actually said, verbatim: "Before you take a cold position of "no dice" which quoted someone else who said 'no dice.'

I then "protested loudly." Aka posting my opinion like anyone else. You are indeed misquoting in a disingenuous, hyperbolic manner. If your position is so strong then why the need to try to turn other's posts into something they're not?

I don't have to stick to some posting script posting in the manner you would like with every opinion I hold at the one time or else I'm slated. Bizarre.

Actually, I was the poster who made the statement ‘no dice’ in relation to economic migrants who seek to come to Ireland, without having the requisite skills. I own that statement and believe that it’s a sensible approach to economic migration. Whether you think that’s a cold / cold hearted approach to regulating migration is immaterial to me.

I believe my position is pretty strong and grounded in logic. The solution I proposed to asylum seeking certainly seemed to resonate with you. It’s always rewarding to find some common ground with somebody who appears to hold diametrically opposed views.

[Deleted User]

TheCitizen wrote: »

You ignored the rest of what I said which was in reply to what you asked and now you are moaning that I was arguing for the sake of it. Typical of what passed for debate on here a lot of the time and illustrates my other point re the pointless echo chamber this place has become perfectly.

You avoided the previous questions put to you, and chose to focus on Biko's suggestion about a referendum. Your response to me, had nothing to do with what I asked about, and so, I didn't bother replying to it.

As for being an echo chamber, that's only because those who, like you, want to disagree, don't commit to arguing your points, instead, only make vague statements and wander away... just to pop back in to dismiss others' contributions. Or try to connect us with stormfront, or make suggestions of racism, without, again, backing up your statements with anything approaching evidence.

And as for illustrating points... your responses continue to validate what I said previously about your presence on this thread.

TheCitizen

suicide_circus wrote: »

A referendum is a question on changing something in the constitution- what is being proposed?

I'd settle for a coherent policy around asylum, particularly where applicants have bypassed multiple safe countries before reaching Ireland.

I agree with this. We need policies to deal with complex and sensitive issues re immigration. A Referendum on it which some are proposing would be a daft and potentially dangerous utter waste of time.

TheCitizen

Hamachi wrote: »

Basically, you’re conceding that you have no argument, you can’t back up any of your assertions with facts, and that you’re intellectually hollow.

However, you do see fit to pop up occasionally, spew meaningless rhetoric, and cast aspersions on posters who disagree with you and have repeatedly backed up their arguments with facts and logic. Good man. I can see how your time must be very, very ‘precious’..

Another one, leaving out what doesn’t suit. It’s becoming an echo chamber on here resembling the old Stormfront website or the likes of it.

TheCitizen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

OK. Although... you've just described what many people I know, consider being Irish to be. Talking and Arguing for the joy of it. Having a bit of craic while chasing weird and fun conversations. Tweaking peoples noses through great arguments. With a little bit of recognition to go along with it down at the pub. Not much though, since we're a modest people. :pac:

Not to worry. I know where you stand now. Got it. haha.

You ignored the rest of what I said which was in reply to what you asked and now you are moaning that I was arguing for the sake of it. Typical of what passed for debate on here a lot of the time and illustrates my other point re the pointless echo chamber this place has become perfectly.

nj27

Deleted User wrote: »

" Between 2020 and 2100, Africa’s population is expected to increase from 1.3 billion to 4.3 billion. Projections show these gains will come mostly in sub-Saharan Africa, which is expected to more than triple in population by 2100."

"Half of babies born worldwide are expected to be born in Africa by 2100, up from three-in-ten today. Nigeria is expected to have 864 million births between 2020 and 2100, the most of any African country. The number of births in Nigeria is projected to exceed those in China by 2070."

"India is projected to surpass China as the world’s most populous country by 2027. Meanwhile, Nigeria will surpass the U.S. as the third-largest country in the world in 2047, according to the projections."

So, we're to see a major rise in population from areas which are economically poor, have little infrastructure, and little to no education... from areas where we already are experiencing high migration applications.

So... I don't understand this desire to reduce our immigration restrictions. While Europe's population is set to decline (somewhat) our economies are driven by roles which require less manpower, especially, with automation set to make it's presence known, there's even less of a need for unskilled labor. All the while, costs of living and the costs to operate western nations are on the rise throughout the western world... combined with greater vulnerabilities in economic systems worldwide.

So... where do all these unskilled migrants with little education find jobs to support themselves? Considering that such low end jobs are already in demand from the local population, and many of such jobs will disappear due to automation, causing greater demand on those jobs remaining.

I wonder if those birth rates map onto the African population already dwelling in Europe. Doesn’t make for a pretty picture considering the largely below replacement rates of native Europeans.