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Are we really that similar to the Scots?

Godot.

I always hear about 'Celtic brotherhood' but in reality...

They were culturally Protestant, we were Catholic.
They were huge beneficiaries from Empire, we were a colony.
They love the Queen.
Ulster Scots never integrated properly with the native Irish and are the reason our island is partitioned.
Irish immigration to Glasgow caused huge tensions in the 19th century.
They have the largest Orange Order membership outside Northern Ireland.

*drops mic*

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Dyr

Dempo1 wrote: »

I lived and worked in Scotland and Wales & I've have to say we are far more like the people from Wales, infact I don't think we have much in common with the Scots at all, albeit I had excellent experience of both, as an aside Edinburgh was actually the Place I have to say had the most Rudest people I ever met or encountered worldwide, Glasgow the complete opposite. But if you ever want to meet the funniest, craziest and Genuine people, Swansea and more specifically the Mumbles, just outside is the place to go and actually not unlike the Dingle Penisula in terms of scenery.

Oddly enough, I always found the Welsh a lot closer to us that the Scots in terms of temperment. Welsh are fairly easy going. Scots can be a bit more like Cork people, always chippy and looking to find fault

begbysback

We are the exact same, trainspotting is practically an Irish film with scottish accents.

blinding

I believe the Scots are more inclined to tell ya that “ You are a K´¨nt to your Face.

The Irish would be mumbling into their hands and that is when they are not sniggering in to their hands and of course there is no better Race in the world at telling you how Great the Irish are than the Irish ~ ~ ~ funnily enough nobody else sees this Greatness at all ! !

Thelonious Monk

I lived there for a while and found them similar to us, but I mean people in Newcastle and Manchester are similar to us too. Moral of the story is that most of the Brits are pretty similar to us regardless of what part they're from.

Capt'n Midnight

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

There’s a never-ending debate (largely political) about whether it’s a language in its own right, or dialect of English.

It's mutually intelligible with English. Once you get through the accent you're most of the way there for spoken Ulster Scots. If you can understand Rab C Nesbitt you'd have no problem learning it.

Spelling is interesting, it's not quite a one to one substitution.
Lesson 3. How to use 'Tha' instead of 'The'
http://www.ulsterscotsacademy.com/education/lesson-3.pdf

alchemist33

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I lived there for a while and found them similar to us, but I mean people in Newcastle and Manchester are similar to us too. Moral of the story is that most of the Brits are pretty similar to us regardless of what part they're from.

Very true. When travelling I found that the northern English I met were even easier to get on with than some Irish. We're probably more similar to them than peoole from Essex

Errashareesh

Overall I think we're very different tbh.

The Scots seem more blunt, more forthright, more "get on with it", less whingey.

corner of hells

My father was Scottish and I have a very distinct Scottish surname, I can trace my family back through generations in Scotland, I am part of a Sept first and then a Highland clan.
I have a tartan and Sept motto too.

I and my clan are available, if anyone wants to fight us also we do freelance mercenary work.

Dyr

Errashareesh wrote: »

Overall I think we're very different tbh.

The Scots seem more blunt, more forthright, more "get on with it", less whingey.

Thats why I compared some Scots to the Langers, great men for straight talking so long as they're not on the recieving end, then its drama and grudge holding for eternity

Zebra3

Bambi wrote: »

Oddly enough, I always found the Welsh a lot closer to us that the Scots in terms of temperment. Welsh are fairly easy going. Scots can be a bit more like Cork people, always chippy and looking to find fault

Welsh easy going?

Spend some time in Cardiff.

Must be the most aggressive kip in Europe.

Strumms

I spent a lot of time in Glasgow and Edinburgh on work trips...

Found the Scots to be immensely nice and caring people. I would have been working I guess going by name anyway with a decent cross section of society.

ALL seemed to get along at least and in that job and context were respectful, inclusive and fun to be around... no racial or sectarian undertones whatsoever. If I was finishing on a Friday and not seeing them for six months I’d head over to the terminal to fly back and two lads would often hang around for a pint and then bus it home, one was definitely a Protestant as he just be mentioning going to Ibrox on Saturday like it was buying a kit kat.

The only ‘racial’ undertones I ever experienced was courtesy of a fella in the office in the east end of London who seemed to have a fascination with a dislike of Irish and in fact all foreign people.. “so Jofra, what you up to for the weekend mate, stay at home ? Take you long to get home, Nairobi isn’t it mate ?” It was all said with a jolly smile and element of ‘humor’ but you could here the muttered utterances of racism at times all be it mostly to a like minded colleague.

Errashareesh

Yeah I was blown away by how nice the people in Edinburgh are. And customer service is fantastic.

Bambi wrote: »

Thats why I compared some Scots to the Langers, great men for straight talking so long as they're not on the recieving end, then its drama and grudge holding for eternity

I'm a langer and a big fan of the Scots (apart from the loyalist loons obv) and I'm OK with that assessment.

[Deleted User]

Strumms wrote: »

I spent a lot of time in Glasgow and Edinburgh on work trips...

Found the Scots to be immensely nice and caring people. I would have been working I guess going by name anyway with a decent cross section of society.

ALL seemed to get along at least and in that job and context were respectful, inclusive and fun to be around... no racial or sectarian undertones whatsoever. If I was finishing on a Friday and not seeing them for six months I’d head over to the terminal to fly back and two lads would often hang around for a pint and then bus it home, one was definitely a Protestant as he just be mentioning going to Ibrox on Saturday like it was buying a kit kat.

The only ‘racial’ undertones I ever experienced was courtesy of a fella in the office in the east end of London who seemed to have a fascination with a dislike of Irish and in fact all foreign people.. “so Jofra, what you up to for the weekend mate, stay at home ? Take you long to get home, Nairobi isn’t it mate ?” It was all said with a jolly smile and element of ‘humor’ but you could here the muttered utterances of racism at times all be it mostly to a like minded colleague.

It say for lots of Rangers fans going to Ibrox is as normal as buying a kit kat.

Or did you expect him to temper the conversation about going to Ibrox because you were present ?

Strumms

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It say for lots of Rangers fans going to Ibrox is as normal as buying a kit kat.

Or did you expect him to temper the conversation about going to Ibrox because you were present ?

I didn’t ‘expect‘ anything my friend, simply relating my experiences of being around people of differing backgrounds, beliefs and possibly viewpoints on certain political and cultural outlooks....

bob mcbob

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the biggest myth is that sectarianism is limited to Glasgow , the only reason its most prolific there is the number of catholics is tiny outside the cities

gimme the english anyday over that lot

the english adopted protestantism for political reasons and never really gave a tuppence about the theological differences , the Scots went full on fundamentalist calvinist , hence the prejudice experienced by irish immigrants to scotland which was absent in england and wales , the english looked down on us like everyone else but not for anything reformation related

Here are some facts about Irish immigration to Scotland.

As you can see a significant number of Irish settled in Scotland during the famine and a lot stayed.

The largest group of immigrants to settle in Scotland are the Irish. From the early 1800s most of the emigration, however, was on a temporary basis, and peaked during key points in the farming calendar, such as the harvest. Irish settlement became more distinct with the development of cotton weaving, the construction of railways and the general expansion of the economy. The great famine of 1846–47 resulted in floods of Irish immigrants coming into the UK. According to the 1841 census, the Irish-born population of Scotland stood at 4.8%. Ten years later it increased to 7.2% as compared with 2.9% for England and Wales. Between 1841 and 1851 the Irish population of Scotland increased by 90%. Nevertheless, as the century progressed the numbers of Irish immigrants shrank to 3.7% in 1911. The census figures, however, only recorded those who were Irish-born, while children of Irish immigrants born in Scotland were classified as Scottish.

https://www.johngraycentre.org/about/archives/brief-history-emigration-immigration-scotland-research-guide-2/

Sure there were problems in the past but I would interested in what the reaction would be in Ireland today if over the course of 10 years, there was an influx of over 320000 people (from say Nigeria) - competing for housing, work, resources etc.

As a Catholic Scot of Irish descent, I have never experienced sectarianism but I am not saying it does not exist - there are scum in all countries.

When I lived in Ireland, most people were welcoming when they heard my accent but there were some people who would visibly back away. I was also advised there were some pubs I shouldn't go into with my accent - so it works both ways.

[Deleted User]

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

What tropes? Before you ask it has nothing to do with either group of ‘them’uns’ up North. Anyone who has any dealings with the Nordie knows it doesn’t matter what ‘side’ they are on. The vast majority of people up there are belligerent, sour, mean-spirited, ‘agricultural’, and pretty stupid as well.

Characteristics not uncommon in the southern Scot either to be honest. I mean Celtic vs Rangers shows how backward these people are. Such venom, hatred, and stupidity shown as their fans watch absolutely atrocious hoof ball while singing songs about 500 years ago.

All the tropes you just reinforced in this post.

I've dealt with nordies. In fact I've been dealing with nordies my entire life considering I am one. It's rare to come across someone truly mean spirited, bigoted, sour or anything else. The reality is, just like anywhere else, the majority of people just want to get along and get on with their lives.

Hamsterchops

bob mcbob wrote: »

... The great famine of 1846–47 resulted in floods of Irish immigrants coming into Britain the UK.

We were part of the UK during the great famine.

Jimbob1977

Ethnically we are Celtic stock and have a close relationship.

However, there was a schism 300-400 years ago.

o The Reformation made Scotland a largely Protestant nation. Ireland remained a Catholic country.

o Scotland almost went bankrupt after a disastrous colonisation attempt in Panama. To survive, they effectively sold themselves to the English. Many clans converted to Protestantism to benefit from English favours.

The deepest wound was the Plantation of Ulster. The Scots effectively stole a quarter of Ireland and disinherited the Irish.

Later they became the 'engine room' of the British Empire. Clever, ruthless, efficient, dour.

When offered independence in 2014, they preferred remaining under the English thumb.

Hamsterchops

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

When offered independence in 2014, they preferred remaining under the English thumb.

:rolleyes:

Hardly under the English thumb, more like remaining as part of the United Kingdom with their Kith & kin in Wales, NI and England. Obviously they also regard us as being part of the same family, even if we have removed ourselves from being "under the English thumb" as you put it.

Errashareesh

circadian wrote: »

All the tropes you just reinforced in this post.

I've dealt with nordies. In fact I've been dealing with nordies my entire life considering I am one. It's rare to come across someone truly mean spirited, bigoted, sour or anything else. The reality is, just like anywhere else, the majority of people just want to get along and get on with their lives.

Absolutely. Any people from the North of Ireland I know - nationalist or unionist - are exceptionally lovely.

road_high

I’ve always had good experiences with Scots either there or living here. They are quite divided as to being part of the union which in my opinion is their own business and there are advantages and disadvantages either way. They are tight with money but I think a lot of that is due to not having a lot historically so they are careful with it. Most rural Irish people are the same in that regard too.
Overly nice friendly people but I find the English generally the same with just some weird notions about Ireland which you can take with a pinch of salt rather than being all wound up about it.
The tension between the English and Scots is 100 times more apparent even if it is mostly jovial

road_high

Errashareesh wrote: »

Absolutely. Any people from the North of Ireland I know - nationalist or unionist - are exceptionally lovely.

I always find them extremely polite in shops and business. Especially compared to Dublin where good manners and service appear to be alien concepts these days.

Dyr

Zebra3 wrote: »

Welsh easy going?

Spend some time in Cardiff.

Must be the most aggressive kip in Europe.

Lived there for a while was back in the day but it nowhere near as mental as Newport..or Dublin

Thelonious Monk

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The deepest wound was the Plantation of Ulster. The Scots effectively stole a quarter of Ireland and disinherited the Irish

Well they moved and were offered incentives to move to a different part of the UK, hardly their fault following the will of their Government.
You could say Irish settlers in USA and Australia stole land from the Natives in those countries.

road_high

Hamsterchops wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Hardly under the English thumb, more like remaining as part of the United Kingdom with their Kith & kin in Wales, NI and England. Obviously they also regard us as being part of the same family, even if we have removed ourselves from being "under the English thumb" as you put it.

There’s a few narrow window between independence and remaining in the U.K. i Can’t see the Scottish independence movement going away- the direction of travel seems fairly inevitable

blinding

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It say for lots of Rangers fans going to Ibrox is as normal as buying a kit kat.

Or did you expect him to temper the conversation about going to Ibrox because you were present ?

I worked with a couple of Rangers supporters and they were all for Scottish Independence and sound lads to have pint with.

I did get the strong feeling that I was not welcome at a Rangers roadside sandwich bar in the East End of Glasgow once = sure it might have just been me ! !

Junkyard Tom

I've little doubt that being in the UK has held Scotland back enormously. I saw an interesting tweet t'other day comparing Scotland with Norway:

twitter.com/romansarecrazy

I think if I was a Scot I'd be really annoyed by the carry-on in Westminster.

Strumms

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It say for lots of Rangers fans going to Ibrox is as normal as buying a kit kat.

Or did you expect him to temper the conversation about going to Ibrox because you were present ?

I didn’t at all my friend , I was merely expressing my experience of the normality of relationships in that context between people of differing beliefs and cultures.

blinding

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I've little doubt that being in the UK has held Scotland back enormously. I saw an interesting tweet t'other day comparing Scotland with Norway:

twitter.com/romansarecrazy

I think if I was a Scot I'd be really annoyed by the carry-on in Westminster.

Scotland should be a Norway ~ ~ They were robbed of their Oil.

They were quiet too long ~ ~ way too Long.

amadangomor

bob mcbob wrote: »

Here are some facts about Irish immigration to Scotland.

As you can see a significant number of Irish settled in Scotland during the famine and a lot stayed.

The largest group of immigrants to settle in Scotland are the Irish. From the early 1800s most of the emigration, however, was on a temporary basis, and peaked during key points in the farming calendar, such as the harvest. Irish settlement became more distinct with the development of cotton weaving, the construction of railways and the general expansion of the economy. The great famine of 1846–47 resulted in floods of Irish immigrants coming into the UK. According to the 1841 census, the Irish-born population of Scotland stood at 4.8%. Ten years later it increased to 7.2% as compared with 2.9% for England and Wales. Between 1841 and 1851 the Irish population of Scotland increased by 90%. Nevertheless, as the century progressed the numbers of Irish immigrants shrank to 3.7% in 1911. The census figures, however, only recorded those who were Irish-born, while children of Irish immigrants born in Scotland were classified as Scottish.

https://www.johngraycentre.org/about/archives/brief-history-emigration-immigration-scotland-research-guide-2/

Sure there were problems in the past but I would interested in what the reaction would be in Ireland today if over the course of 10 years, there was an influx of over 320000 people (from say Nigeria) - competing for housing, work, resources etc.

As a Catholic Scot of Irish descent, I have never experienced sectarianism but I am not saying it does not exist - there are scum in all countries.

When I lived in Ireland, most people were welcoming when they heard my accent but there were some people who would visibly back away. I was also advised there were some pubs I shouldn't go into with my accent - so it works both ways.

Good post until the last paragraph.

People would back away when they hear your accent? Sorry but that would not happen and is down to your own perception. Can you give a specific example of a place this happened?

What pubs could you not go to? Some wannabee IRA ****hole on the Northside of Dublin would be the only place I might think of but even they would more likely not give a ****e as long as you were sound.