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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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s1ippy

Treehelpplease wrote: »

i think so far we are lucky ... glass ... glass ... glass ... glass ... glass

Fyp

the beer revolu wrote: »

Why is it that when people dislike a building they always seem to assume that everyone else feels the same?

Conversely, I really like R&H Hall, but I do understand that the majority of other people feel differently.

To me and many like me, it's a blank canvas

Mav11

Slipperydodger wrote: »

A short walk around the new Penrose Dock development https://youtu.be/zi2ytn6i8d8

Wouldn't like to walk down some of those lanes at night!

Slipperydodger

A short walk around the new Penrose Dock development https://youtu.be/zi2ytn6i8d8

marno21

Would be nice to see Michael O'Flynn drive on a development like this in Cork: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40046654.html

After all, he is behind the most ambitious and groundbreaking development in this city to date.

On an aside, I was walking around town last night with someone who has recently returned home from two years abroad, and it's disappointing how 2009-esque the place has become. Walking past sites with "oh there's plans for this but who knows when they'll happen". There's no major plans to start anything and most of the existing sites are winding down. Just a 20 minute walk past the following:

Navigation Square (2 blocks mothballed)
Horgan's Quay (remaining office space and apartments mothballed)
The Prism (looking more mothballed by the day)
Custom House Tower (about another 6 months of planning shenanigans ahead at least, hopefully the covid uncertainty will be clearer by then)
Sullivan's Quay (rubble and hoardings)
UCC Business School (no word at all lately)
Events Centre (lol)
Albert Quay Tower (no movement at Blackash and the former Sextant now a car park)
Moore's Hotel redevelopment
Parnell Place Hotel

And that's aside from long mothballed developments like Anderson's Quay, Camden Quay, Railway Gardens

Mav11

[QUOTE= dublin north docks like dublin landings and spencer place are beautiful[/QUOTE]

Couple of striking buildings on the North Wall Quays alright, Central Bank, Convention centre etc. If you drive down there you'll find that they have broken up these runs of ultra modern buildings by leaving some of the old red brick buildings in place.

In fairness, they are half trying to do this on Albert Quay.

cantalach

the beer revolu wrote: »

Fair enough.
Maybe not with you but don't you find it to be true, generally?

Most of us think that our own opinions on any subject are sensible and “normal” so I suppose it follows from that that we would assume most others feel the same.

Reminds me of a Gary Larson cartoon which shows a vast auditorium and just 5-6 people sitting behind a table on the stage looking out across rows of empty seats. A sign underneath them reads “Welcome to the Inaugural Meeting of the DLDWWS!” (the Don’t Like ‘Dances With Wolves’ Society)

Mav11

questionmark? wrote: »

Different opinions are welcome but that's just hyperbole!

Absolutely, I think all that is being said, is that we should learn from past mistakes.

questionmark?

whisky_galore wrote: »

They never stay smart for long. When they tire of constant window cleaning they will get that neglected Apollo House/former USSR building look with cockeyed and broken blinds.

Different opinions are welcome but that's just hyperbole!

whisky_galore

Mav11 wrote: »

Just because its new doesn't mean that it won't get bland and run down looking, in a very short space of time.

Without doubt, very good work has been done on restoring old buildings over the years. But all you have to do is look at 1 and 1a South Mall and tell me that those buildings have blended in or aged well over the years??

They never stay smart for long. When they tire of constant window cleaning they will get that neglected Apollo House/former USSR building look with cockeyed and broken blinds.

Treehelpplease

i think so far we are lucky that the docks building's are all different. 1 albert quay is modern glass, Navigation Square is a mix of copper stone and glass, Penrose Quay is full of stone with high quality glass, Horgans Quay has the modern glass but steel offices and brick office, the brick apartments and the ultra modern Dean Hotel. Also, full of public plazas that are small enough to not feel empty but big enough to not feel useless. Lapps Quay is also full of different types of new bbuildings. 5/6 lapps quay are post modern i think, the clarion is a mix of wood and glass, city quarter is pretty bland but different again. lets hope it stays that way unlike dublin south docks. dublin north docks like dublin landings and spencer place are beautiful

Mav11

Link below to the old Sutton House when it burned down in 1963, a beautiful red brick building.

https://oldphotosofcork.wordpress.com/2014/07/04/the-burning-of-suttons-cork-in-1963/

I'm sure that the current buildings were the bees knees at the time. I would just be a bit concerned that, particularly in terms of scale, we wouldn't repeat past mistakes.

All you have to do is look around Spencer docks, Barrow St etc. in Dublin, cutting edge modern architecture, but barren and soulless. All different but all the same. I wonder what they will be like in 20 years? You really need variety in such developments.

WoolyJumper

Mav11 wrote: »

Just because its new doesn't mean that it won't get bland and run down looking, in a very short space of time. Without doubt, very good work has been done on restoring old buildings over the years. But all you have to do is look at 1 and 1a South Mall and tell me that those buildings have blended in or aged well well over the years??

I agree, they are awful and I don't know if the ever blended in on that street. Same with the BOI building. A more modern brick building would be much more suited there. By the docks/Albert Quay you are not really tied down by any particular architectural style so it's an opportunity building something more interesting. The apartment building replacing the sextant isn't anything special either, other than it being tall. But we need the apartments and if quality of the material is good it will look very nice there.

Mav11

Just because its new doesn't mean that it won't get bland and run down looking, in a very short space of time.

Without doubt, very good work has been done on restoring old buildings over the years. But all you have to do is look at 1 and 1a South Mall and tell me that those buildings have blended in or aged well over the years??

questionmark?

Mav11 wrote: »

Certainly the Sextant was no architectural gem, but it did have some merit and charm.

More importantly for Albert quay, with the old railway station on one side it provided relief and a break from what could become an overpowering area of shabby steel and glass boxes.

Attempts should also have been made to retain the stone wall to the side of the pub and incorporate it in to any new development.

Shabby steel? Have you looked around the rest of the docklands and half of Cork. You'll see plenty of shabby buildings and they ain't made of steel. Remember that the shabby buildings of historical importance are been retained (the railway buildings) and renewed into a new lease of life from the shabby state that they are currently in. The same is happening in Horgans Quay with the old shabby buildings been done up to fit in alongside the new steel and glass buildings.

Mav11

Certainly the Sextant was no architectural gem, but it did have some merit and charm.

More importantly for Albert quay, with the old railway station on one side it provided relief and a break from what could become an overpowering area of shabby steel and glass boxes.

Attempts should also have been made to retain the stone wall to the side of the pub and incorporate it in to any new development.

WoolyJumper

I like it and I am sure it will look better once the whole site is completed. There will be plenty of glass boxes around the city in years to come (hopefully once things get back to normal). At least this a bit different from the usual modern Architect Ireland goes for. It reminds me of something that would be built in a Scandinavian country. There is not much else like this in Ireland.

Regarding the sextant. If this was a rare architectural style in Cork id say something but really it's not. We have plenty of buildings like that around the city. No one would have noticed that building on Oliver Plunkett street. It just stood out where it was (helped by the fact it was painted nicely). I think when it comes to old buildings you need to take into context it's surrounding area. IE would it impact the character of the street. In this case not really, it stood out because its surrounded by modern buildings and old wear-houses. Removing it does't greatly impact the character of the street. Ironically if it was on Oliver Plunkett street, though it wouldn't be noticeable I would be against removing it and replacing it with a large glass building because that would impact the character of the street.

opus

Student apartments on the Mardyke.

Future student apartments at ex-Square Deal.

TheChizler

cantalach wrote: »

That said, every time I see the Dean I wonder when some idiot is going to try to use it as a giant skate board ramp!

Not a bad idea maybe we could get something like this

https://www.dw.com/en/skiing-in-the-city-of-copenhagen/av-50800708

Mav11

whisky_galore wrote: »

Uglier than a mule's arse

I have no problem with contemporary buildings replacing old derelict buildings. But are we going overboard with this type of development and what will it look like in 50 years time?
I do have an issue where buildings like the Sextant, which IMHO was not derelict and had some character, are torn down for more of this type of development.

whisky_galore

mire wrote: »

Fantastic contemporary building - more of this please

Uglier than a mule's arse

the beer revolu

cantalach wrote: »

You got me wrong there...there was a smilie for a reason. I like the Dean for the boldness of it if nothing else. And I think it will only be possible to judge it properly when the whole area has been redeveloped.

That said, every time I see the Dean I wonder when some idiot is going to try to use it as a giant skate board ramp!

Fair enough.
Maybe not with you but don't you find it to be true, generally?

I'm reserving judgement on that building.
It's certainly bold and different but it's very imposing, too. Might look great when everything is finished, though.

cantalach

the beer revolu wrote: »

Why is it that when people dislike a building they always seem to assume that everyone else feels the same? .

You got me wrong there...there was a smilie for a reason. I like the Dean for the boldness of it if nothing else. And I think it will only be possible to judge it properly when the whole area has been redeveloped.

That said, every time I see the Dean I wonder when some idiot is going to try to use it as a giant skate board ramp!

TheFactMan

wow really good thread

major interest

marno21 wrote: »

The bellwether for the Albert Quay Tower will be construction of the new Carey Tools premises at Blackash. Until work starts on that, we are more than 6 months away from significant construction at Albert Quay

If the apartments are mothballed, it made sense to knock the Sextant regardless to protect the site value. With the uncertainty out there at the minute and the uncertainty as to what’ll happen in the future, it maximise the potential for the site and removes the Sextant as a constraint should there be a new planning application for the site.

Exactly, removing the sextant is to facilitate the fallback option if for any reason the proposed development does not go ahead and the site/planning changes. However, given its JCD involved I do think there is a better prospect of it going ahead, even if it is delayed somewhat. JCD will be aware of the potential negative publicity and reputational impact if they did not follow through on the project, particularly in light of the demolition of the sextant.

marno21

The bellwether for the Albert Quay Tower will be construction of the new Carey Tools premises at Blackash. Until work starts on that, we are more than 6 months away from significant construction at Albert Quay

If the apartments are mothballed, it made sense to knock the Sextant regardless to protect the site value. With the uncertainty out there at the minute and the uncertainty as to what’ll happen in the future, it maximise the potential for the site and removes the Sextant as a constraint should there be a new planning application for the site.

the beer revolu

Gardner wrote: »

obviously you didn't read my post in full. There won't be any development there for the rest of 2020 or 2021 and that has come from JCD.

Obviously, if you knock down a building, the site will be clearer.
This is no indication of the merit of the building that has been knocked.
Bit of a Captain Obvious comment, really.

Mav11

mire wrote: »

Fantastic contemporary building - more of this please

Are we getting too much of it?

snotboogie

Gardner wrote: »

obviously you didn't read my post in full. There won't be any development there for the rest of 2020 or 2021 and that has come from JCD.

I expected as much but I didn't see them confirm?

Gardner

the beer revolu wrote: »

The area looks cleaner because the site is cleared.
You do realise that the plan is to build on the site?

obviously you didn't read my post in full. There won't be any development there for the rest of 2020 or 2021 and that has come from JCD.

Seamai

Mushy wrote: »

Think thatll be the rooftop bar, like at the one in Dublin. Unsure if therell be a swing for any politicians to fall from though

I think the plan is to have parallel bars in the lobby and a pommel horse in the bar.