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Galway traffic

ben.schlomo

Seemed light this evening, seeing as there doesn't seem to be a thread on traffic here I said I'd start this due to the importance of the issue.

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McGiver

Johnny_BravoIII wrote:

We are blessed with truly regressive people in positions of leadership locally who seem to disagree with the above. I'm not sure why. As a nation we have got the basics in population planning badly wrong in the last 40 years.

That and the electorate is largely regressive too unfortunately... Both issues are linked.

CowboyTed

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

I can't see why anyone living in Galway would argue against investment in rail.
Specifically upgrading the lines at Claregalway, Athenry, Gort.
2-way fast rail serving the city with parknrides.
Two light rail lines serving the city centre.
Priority give to buses walking and cycling.

This type of stuff is best practice internationally.
It's no-brainer stuff which has worked in countless cities worldwide.

We are blessed with truly regressive people in positions of leadership locally who seem to disagree with the above.
I'm not sure why. As a nation we have got the basics in population planning badly wrong in the last 40 years.

The bypass is simply a continuation down a roads-based solution to traffic which doesn't work.

The only hope for the city is E Ryan stays in power for 5+ years and manages to push solutions past the local opposition.

This is becoming like groundhog day....

Galway has

Low Population Density
Bad Weather

It has no bypass.. So all traffic has to come into the town. All commutes from the populated part of the town to any other city has to go through the town.

I am not against Public Transport but the town needs a bypass... Cycling is underused with what infrastructure they got.
Buses have merit but I would like to see a proper trial to see if Galway will use them at proper levels <25% at least...

At the moment like it or not, Private Cars are carrying the most people for space used... Just look at the numbers going across the Bridge... There is barely any cyclists maybe 1-2 while lines of cars...

Johnny_BravoIII

CowboyTed wrote: »

This is becoming like groundhog day....

Galway has
Low Population Density

Bad Weather

It has no bypass.. So all traffic has to come into the town. All commutes from the populated part of the town to any other city has to go through the town.

I am not against Public Transport but the town needs a bypass... Cycling is underused with what infrastructure they got.
Buses have merit but I would like to see a proper trial to see if Galway will use them at proper levels <25% at least...

At the moment like it or not, Private Cars are carrying the most people for space used... Just look at the numbers going across the Bridge... There is barely any cyclists maybe 1-2 while lines of cars...

Galway is dangerous for non experienced cyclists.
There is no cycling infrastructure in the city.
This is why there are low participation rates.
You understand this fact, right?

Galway regionally has low population density due to 40 years of bad planning, 1-off housing etc. How do we begin to tackle this issue?

You keep mentioned the fact that stuff needs to be trialled. Who is saying the opposite.

CowboyTed

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

Galway is dangerous for non experienced cyclists.
There is no cycling infrastructure in the city.
This is why there are low participation rates.
You understand this fact, right?

Galway regionally has low population density due to 40 years of bad planning, 1-off housing etc. How do we begin to tackle this issue?

You keep mentioned the fact that stuff needs to be trialled. Who is saying the opposite.

First there is a cycle lane continuously from Salthill & Knocknacarra to Ballybrit.... This is one of the main through-fares during peak hours yet few cyclists. That is infrastructure.

One off Housing is outside Galway issue but it does of course drive people into cars and makes PT near impossible.

Bad planning is bad planning... Can't take it back... It is what it is... It was bad planning that puts employment on one side of the city and people living on the other.

With a Bypass we can hopefully get more employers on the Westside... It makes sense... There is no job incubator in Salthill or Knocknacarra... The reason Employers are over there is they think it keeps them closer to Shannon and Dublin... If we actually have a business park(s) in Knocknacarra/Barna the pressure on traffic immediately reduces.

LostDuck

You know the staunch advocates for the road don't even call it a bypass anymore? They call it a ring road, as it'll be surrounded with development and become like the existing ring road.

ChunkyLover54

CowboyTed wrote: »

First there is a cycle lane continuously from Salthill & Knocknacarra to Ballybrit

There isn't.

CowboyTed

ChunkyLover54 wrote: »

There isn't.

Apart from the roundabouts it is continuous...

Where do you say it is missing?

what_traffic

CowboyTed wrote: »

Apart from the roundabouts it is continuous...

Where do you say it is missing?

The large multilane roundabouts are NOT missing - thats the problem CowboyTed, but you already know this.
Where is the rest of your mythical underused network located? I know - do you?

Johnny_BravoIII

CowboyTed wrote: »

First there is a cycle lane continuously from Salthill & Knocknacarra to Ballybrit.... This is one of the main through-fares during peak hours yet few cyclists. That is infrastructure.

It's bizarre that you would suggest the bike like from Knocknacarra to Ballybrit is suitable for anyone less than a very experienced cyclist.
The Hospital roundabout? Terryland? Do you really young, older, less experienced people trying to cycle in-and-around Galway.
You really have closed your mind to rational thinking here. You can't even identify that Galway is an unfriendly place to cycle a bike.

One off Housing is outside Galway issue but it does of course drive people into cars and makes PT near impossible.

Bad planning is bad planning... Can't take it back... It is what it is... It was bad planning that puts employment on one side of the city and people living on the other.

Groundhog day is right.
The solution to bad planning is not further regressive bad transport management.
By the way, I don't rule out the need to build the bypass. I'm just saying that the decision needs to be part of a progressive approach to town planning and transport management. I don't see any signs people with authority in Galway are thinking this way.

what_traffic

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

It's bizarre that you would suggest the bike like from Knocknacarra to Ballybrit is suitable for anyone less than a very experienced cyclist.
The Hospital roundabout? Terryland? Do you really young, older, less experienced people trying to cycle in-and-around Galway.
You really have closed your mind to rational thinking here. You can't even identify that Galway is an unfriendly place to cycle a bike.

I don't find it a bizarre comment from CowboyTed. Its par for the course from them.
As somebody who is very experienced cycling in Galway City. Have been cycle commuting from Rahoon to Parkmore past 15 years and I do not even use this route to and from work for the very reason you point out.

gordongekko

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

The only hope for the city is E Ryan stays in power for 5+ years and manages to push solutions past the local opposition.

All the greens propose to do is to tax things. A useless joke of a party. This man can even stay awake in the dail during a debate on employment rights.

gordongekko

Of course even if there was a cycle route as per cowboys post it's not a route with a lot of cycle traffic on it. Why is there no route from renmore to ballybrit , mervue to ballybrit, doughiska to ballybrit. These areas are more likely to have people working in ballybrit than knocknacarra that would be willing to cycle to work if the infrastructure was there to do it.

LostDuck

A good test of apparent cycling infrastructure is would you let your primary school kids cycle to school on it on their own.

Some short stretches, there's enough of a bridge of facilities, like between some estates and schools in Knocknacarra. But anyone that'd let their kids cycle through any of the Terryland routes to get across town obvious hasn't done it themselves.

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Surprised he stayed awake.

gordongekko wrote: »

This man can even stay awake in the dail during a debate on employment rights.

Ah ye'll get great mileage out of that, must be short of valid points to debate!

Scienceless

LostDuck wrote: »

A good test of apparent cycling infrastructure is would you let your primary school kids cycle to school on it on their own.

Some short stretches, there's enough of a bridge of facilities, like between some estates and schools in Knocknacarra. But anyone that'd let their kids cycle through any of the Terryland routes to get across town obvious hasn't done it themselves.

Not a chance would I let my (secondary) school going kids cycle across/through Galway to school. It's not even an option for them as far as I'm concerned.
Luckily for us PT does the job quite well.
Do occasionally cycle to work myself as it's a much shorter journey
Galway has a very long way to go before cycling becomes popular IMO.

Mr_A

CowboyTed wrote: »

Buses have merit but I would like to see a proper trial to see if Galway will use them at proper levels <25% at least...

When a good service was provided to Doughiska / Renmore / Roscam / Parkmore with the 409 the use went up massively and it ended up providing 2/3s of all fares in the city. People will use good services- and even the 409 is pretty hampered by traffic etc.

[Deleted User]

Mr_A wrote: »

When a good service was provided to Doughiska / Renmore / Roscam / Parkmore with the 409 the use went up massively and it ended up providing 2/3s of all fares in the city. People will use good services- and even the 409 is pretty hampered by traffic etc.

Aye, BE stated in the past that they want to make that a frequency of every 5-6 mins at which point a timetable becomes redundant. This is because demand is there as a result of the long QBC that exists for that route.

They won't do it until the bus priority corridor is built for the city centre as it would be a pointless exercise.

Once the bus priority corridor is completed, all routes will see significant growth

Now if only they could open their minds to saf3, protected cycling infrastructure, could easily get to 20% on that mode

CowboyTed

what_traffic wrote: »

The large multilane roundabouts are NOT missing - thats the problem CowboyTed, but you already know this.
Where is the rest of your mythical underused network located? I know - do you?

So cyclists have to wait at Roundabouts... That is a total of two roundabouts. Sorry so does everyone... Tell us how we are going to solve that one.

Don't care about me knowing or not... The route during peak hours is barely used and you want more infrastructure... Why?

The main aim of the transport plan is to make driving so ****ty people will be forced to use other means... Never mind the lop pop density, bad weather, hilly terrain and no bypass...

I will point out that those Netherland towns/cities have twice population densities, half the bad weather days, flat terrain and main traffic routes are not going through town...

The method of making driving worse and worse is just not working... Cycling hasn't moved 1% in 12 years...

CowboyTed

Mr_A wrote: »

When a good service was provided to Doughiska / Renmore / Roscam / Parkmore with the 409 the use went up massively and it ended up providing 2/3s of all fares in the city. People will use good services- and even the 409 is pretty hampered by traffic etc.

That is why I agree with trials...

CowboyTed

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

It's bizarre that you would suggest the bike like from Knocknacarra to Ballybrit is suitable for anyone less than a very experienced cyclist.
The Hospital roundabout? Terryland? Do you really young, older, less experienced people trying to cycle in-and-around Galway.
You really have closed your mind to rational thinking here. You can't even identify that Galway is an unfriendly place to cycle a bike.

Groundhog day is right.
The solution to bad planning is not further regressive bad transport management.
By the way, I don't rule out the need to build the bypass. I'm just saying that the decision needs to be part of a progressive approach to town planning and transport management. I don't see any signs people with authority in Galway are thinking this way.

Johnny they are turning the Headford round about into a traffic light and Hospital people can get off and walk (sorry but I don't have a problem with that becoming a traffic light either...

I totally agree with you on using the bypass to find the space to fill with PT and cycling. That is the chance to let the city breath enough to do these things and in fairness the City Council did as the planners of the bypass for just that.

I am also adding that we have the chance to also start putting a large business park in Knocknacarra/Barna...

what_traffic

CowboyTed wrote: »

So cyclists have to wait at Roundabouts... That is a total of two roundabouts. Sorry so does everyone... Tell us how we are going to solve that one.

.
..
The method of making driving worse and worse is just not working

Issue is not about waiting; its about the safe method to cross/turn said junction as a person walking or cycling.
Method? What is the method you talk about.
Is this your own method or who is forcing this method upon you?

?Cee?view

CowboyTed wrote: »

The main aim of the transport plan is to make driving so ****ty people will be forced to use other means... Never mind the lop pop density, bad weather, hilly terrain and no bypass...

The most true words on this whole thread.

joeysoap

As a semi regular visitor I dip in and out of this thread and came across this

https://youtu.be/Msl_60qhVFk

xckjoo

?Cee?view wrote: »

The most true words on this whole thread.

Driving is already sh1t for the vast majority of people and it's impossible to just build more roads to fix this. It's about giving alternatives that are less sh1t for people that want them

CowboyTed

what_traffic wrote: »

Issue is not about waiting; its about the safe method to cross/turn said junction as a person walking or cycling.
Method? What is the method you talk about.
Is this your own method or who is forcing this method upon you?

I am pretty sure there is zebra crossings (some traffic lighted) on all entrances and exits....

Method:
There are four times the amount of cars in Galway since when the last bridge was completed... Car Owners pay for the roads.
Road works in the westside for about two years and no extra capacity for cars...

Now the predestriation of more streets in city centre and taking of salmon weir bridge..

We have heard the mantra here "More Roads = More Cars"....

Cars are 60% of journeys in Galway... Cycling is 5.5% and only increased 1% in 12 years... That is utter failure. We haven't seen anything to wonder why it has been an utter failure, just continue on the same path. I hope you can see the point I am trying to make?

what_traffic

CowboyTed wrote: »

We have heard the mantra here "More Roads = More Cars"....

We haven't seen anything to wonder why it has been an utter failure, just continue on the same path. I hope you can see the point I am trying to make?

I do.
Fail better, fail more often, fail again.

LostDuck

CowboyTed wrote: »

So cyclists have to wait at Roundabouts... That is a total of two roundabouts. Sorry so does everyone... Tell us how we are going to solve that one.

If you think waiting times is the issue with safe cycling through roundabouts then you've a long way to go yet before understanding the issues.

xckjoo

what_traffic wrote: »

I do.
Fail better, fail more often, fail again.

Have we tried spending even more money doing the same thing and wondering why things are only getting worse?

LostDuck

Cycling infrastructure should be provided throughout the city to ensure everyone who would be that way inclined can safely hop on a bike and take that option. The infrastructure is cheap and quick to install and doesn't take much to maintain.

It'll never be a very high percentage and will not solve Galway's gridlock.

The solution lies in public transport. The network in Galway needs big investment and road space needs to be given to allow public transport to flow through the pinch points.

ratracer

CowboyTed wrote: »

... Car Owners pay for the roads.

No they don’t!

[Deleted User]

CowboyTed wrote: »

The main aim of the transport plan is to make driving so ****ty people will be forced to use other means... Never mind the lop pop density, bad weather, hilly terrain and no bypass...

A quote from a thread on another board seems apt to put here

Any measure designed to benefit someone not in a car is interpreted by you and others as a measure to 'get' drivers.

From the GTS, should help with your understanding of the current situation

Simply put, there is no more capacity on the city road network, therefore a drastic change is required in how we move people around the city.

This starts with reducing the priority of private cars as they are the least efficient (take the most amount of space for versus the number of people moved). They can still access the city but not the center of the city.

This is followed by bus priority corridors & junctions, QBC's and new bus routes.

Along with implementation of cycling and walking measures to encourage the switch to those too.

What you end up with is a city where, if you are able, you chose to walk or cycle. If it suits more, you get the bus and lastly if you have absolutely no other option, you go for the car.

Right now the list of preferred options starts and ends with the car as the private car has been prioritised in the road network in Galway city. This is going to change simply because it has to. Galway is at approx 80k population now and is envisaged to get to 125k by 2040 or something like that. There simply isn't room on the roads for all those additional people to drive.

As for repeatedly calling for trials, you seem obsessed with these only where non-car measures are being discussed. Can we call the ring road a trial too and if it doesn't work can we rip it out again after?

Lastly, rain, the fact that 23% of commuters walk from home to work in Galway indicates that its not that bad otherwise that figure would be far lower