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PHIL HOGAN NEEDS TO RESIGN.

Mrcaramelchoc

I for one want him gone.

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Allinall

Coveney pulling out, as he doesn't think he'll get the trade portfolio.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/coveney-not-expected-to-allow-name-go-forward-for-eu-commissioner-position-1.4345087?_ga=2.95705563.655784567.1599122767-535687603.1599122757

wrangler

Allinall wrote: »

Coveney pulling out, as he doesn't think he'll get the trade portfolio.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/coveney-not-expected-to-allow-name-go-forward-for-eu-commissioner-position-1.4345087?_ga=2.95705563.655784567.1599122767-535687603.1599122757

More valuable to us here anyway, he's a great wingman for varadkar

stockshares

wrangler wrote: »

More valuable to us here anyway, he's a great wingman for varadkar

I don't know how it can benefit Varadkar. He's Varadkar's main rival for leader and has the support of the Party members on the ground.

wrangler

stockshares wrote: »

I don't know how it can benefit Varadkar. He's Varadkar's main rival for leader and has the support of the Party members on the ground.

He has given nothing only support to varadkar, I think the two together have good credibility that varadkar on his own wouldn't have with anyone else.
On his own Varadkar is not a strong politician.
But Coveney has accepted the result

fly_agaric

Allinall wrote: »

Coveney pulling out, as he doesn't think he'll get the trade portfolio.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/coveney-not-expected-to-allow-name-go-forward-for-eu-commissioner-position-1.4345087?_ga=2.95705563.655784567.1599122767-535687603.1599122757

Not surprised. There is really so much crap that seems to be hitting the EUs fan or about to hit the fan (economic effect of the pandemic, deteriorating relationships with both China and the US at the same time...) that having a "newbie" in that role at this time is not a great idea. Brexit & future relationship with the UK is very, very important for us in particular but maybe a less pressing issue for the EU as a whole.

FrancieBrady

fly_agaric wrote: »

Not surprised. There is really so much crap that seems to be hitting the EUs fan or about to hit the fan (economic effect of the pandemic, deteriorating relationships with both China and the US at the same time...) that having a "newbie" in that role at this time is not a great idea. Brexit & future relationship with the UK is very, very important for us but maybe a less pressing issue for the EU as a whole.

They will nominate 2 women I bet and try to rehabilitate Frances Fitzgerald.
Varadkar still smarting that her career ended in the disgrace of misleading the Dàil.

stockshares

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They will nominate 2 women I bet and try to rehabilitate Frances Fitzgerald.
Varadkar still smarting that her career ended in the disgrace of misleading the Dàil.

It's just been announced on Rte news that they will nominate two people within the next two days.

ShamNNspace

All for the optics now. The Eu job is already decided, one of the picks will be a pacemaker

stockshares

ShamNNspace wrote: »

All for the optics now. The Eu job is already decided, one of the picks will be a pacemaker

Pacemaker or peacemaker or both.:)

fly_agaric

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They will nominate 2 women I bet and try to rehabilitate Frances Fitzgerald.
Varadkar still smarting that her career ended in the disgrace of misleading the Dàil.

Dunno. Not sure if agree at all with whole "nominating 2 people" concept but the politic thing would seem to be for govt. to just do as requested (nominate a man and a woman) and not poke the EU Commission & the President in the ribs any more than they have already. They were lucky Hogan resigned IMO. It would have been pretty awkward if he'd tried very hard to cling on + potentially could have set up a huge row between EU Commission and Ireland.

Muahahaha

Allinall wrote: »

Coveney pulling out, as he doesn't think he'll get the trade portfolio.

I presume Coveney had put feelers out in Brussels on whether or not Ireland would get to keep the trade portfolio and it came back negative. If Coveney is not getting it then theres no way I can see Mairead McGuinness or Francis Fitzgerald getting it.

All of which means Big Phil has lost us the trade portfolio with Brexit trundling down the tracks. He didnt even want it anyway, he was off to the WTO until Ursula told reigned him in.

What a mess created by Hogan and Fine Gael here, the senior hurling we were promised is still at Junior B level.

stockshares

Muahahaha wrote: »

I presume Coveney had put feelers out in Brussels on whether or not Ireland would get to keep the trade portfolio and it came back negative. If Coveney is not getting it then theres no way I can see Mairead McGuinness or Francis Fitzgerald getting it.

All of which means Big Phil has lost us the trade portfolio with Brexit trundling down the tracks. He didnt even want it anyway, he was off to the WTO until Ursula told reigned him in.

What a mess created by Hogan and Fine Gael here, the senior hurling we were promised is still at Junior B level.

I agree with most of your post but I can't see how they would not give it to McGinness. Unless they specifically want her for another job.

Allinall

Muahahaha wrote: »

I presume Coveney had put feelers out in Brussels on whether or not Ireland would get to keep the trade portfolio and it came back negative. If Coveney is not getting it then theres no way I can see Mairead McGuinness or Francis Fitzgerald getting it.

All of which means Big Phil has lost us the trade portfolio with Brexit trundling down the tracks. He didnt even want it anyway, he was off to the WTO until Ursula told reigned him in.

What a mess created by Hogan and Fine Gael here, the senior hurling we were promised is still at Junior B level.

Agree fully.

Hogan started the ****show, but it was ably enhanced by all three of MM, LV and ER.

I would say it was entirely in their hands to have Hogan left in the position, which would have been the better outcome all round.

stockshares

Not sure if there is another in the race but has someone come up on the blindside.

What's the odds on these two
Emily O Reilly
David O Sullivan

https://twitter.com/bergormanlowry/status/1301520506655567873?s=19

Muahahaha

stockshares wrote: »

I agree with most of your post but I can't see how they would not give it to McGinness. Unless they specifically want her for another job.

McGuinness is a capable politician but I get the impression that they want the position of Trade commissioner to be filled by someone similar to Hogan, i.e. a bruiser who wont get steamrolled by the US or UK in trade talks. I dont get the impression McGuinness fits that bill. Plus the Lativan guy who is being touted has way more high level EU experience than her. I think the only possibilty we had of keeping Trade was Coveney but now it seems he has been told off the record that he wouldnt be getting it so he has pulled out to avoid political embarrassment.

Allinall wrote: »

Agree fully.

Hogan started the ****show, but it was ably enhanced by all three of MM, LV and ER.

I would say it was entirely in their hands to have Hogan left in the position, which would have been the better outcome all round.

Its hard to know because Hogan lied to the government about his movements. If Leo had a majority his lies would have been swept under the carpet and we would never have heard about the Garda Commissioners intervention and him getting stopped for driving while talking on a mobile phone, all of that would have been hidden from the public. But as Leo is in coalition it wasnt something he could cover up, Martin and Ryan had a say here too and my guess is they weren't willing to cover up for Hogan on the mobile phone thing.

Imagine if that had of got leaked a few months later that Varadkar, Martin and Ryan all knew of Hogan getting stopped by the Gardai in Kildare when he said he wasnt even in Kildare? You would have been looking at a full blown government scandal with all of them being called to resign and a fresh election being called.

The other side to it is he lied to Ursula too, his 20 page 'Im really telling the truth this time' document left out the matter of his spin to Roscommon. It made her look like a mug within the EU which isnt a good look.

Put short Hogan put the coalition in a no win situation and then he put Ursula in another no win situation. He was the ultimate author of his own downfall and Leo, Martin, Ryan and Ursula were not willing to put their own political necks on the line to save him.

Psychiatric Patrick

Muahahaha wrote: »

...........B]the Garda Commissioners intervention[/B] ................

What intervention?

ShamNNspace

stockshares wrote: »

Pacemaker or peacemaker or both.:)

Pacemaker, there to make up the numbers

Hawthorn Tree

Did you ever hear so much guff? Jerry Buttimer mortified and blaming the hotel.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0903/1162981-politics-clifden-golf-event/

It was an act of complacency - a lack of concentration on my part. I didn't definitively go through the regulations and I regret that now.

The max allowed was 6 people Jerry. 6 people.

To be honest, it (a by-election) is the furthest thing from my mind.

Muahahaha

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

What intervention?

The Gardai who stopped and cautioned Hogan for driving while holding a phone told their superiors and it went up the chain all the way to Drew Harris. Harris then told Michael Martin and Helen McEntee who presumbaly told Varadkar who told Eamon Ryan as a government partner.

The event of Hogan being stopped by the Gardai in Kildare was known by the three party leaders before Hogan produced his statement saying that he went direct from Kilkenny to Clifden. So at an early stage the three party leaders knew Hogan was lying because of the info provided to them by Drew Harris. Hogan was naive in thinking that he Garda caution in Kildare would not get to Harris and hence the government, he thought he could get away with the Kilkenny to Clifden lie but he actually end up shooting himself in the foot by lying.

[Deleted User]

Ultimately, I believe that Phil had to go because he was economic and evasive with the truth to Ursula. Dragging the facts of his trip, one by one, out of Phil is not something any boss can countenance, let alone the President of the EC. He had sealed his fate the moment that he started thinking he could lie by omission and survive. He really was playing senior hurling, and must have thought he was still blagging his way through the lower echelons of local politics

Psychiatric Patrick

Muahahaha wrote: »

The Gardai who stopped and cautioned Hogan for driving while holding a phone told their superiors and it went up the chain all the way to Drew Harris. Harris then told Michael Martin and Helen McEntee who presumbaly told Varadkar who told Eamon Ryan as a government partner.

The event of Hogan being stopped by the Gardai in Kildare was known by the three party leaders before Hogan produced his statement saying that he went direct from Kilkenny to Clifden. So at an early stage the three party leaders knew Hogan was lying because of the info provided to them by Drew Harris. Hogan was naive in thinking that he Garda caution in Kildare would not get to Harris and hence the government, he thought he could get away with the Kilkenny to Clifden lie but he actually end up shooting himself in the foot by lying.

That is how I had thought it played out but when I read "intervention" my first thought was that people are saying Harris did something wrong - which didn't seem likely.

Muahahaha

Yeah Harris is covered by a law that says he can inform the government of the day of any instances that might effect their power to govern. Hogan getting stopped was covered by that so Harris told Martin as Taoiseach and McEntee as Minister of Justice

It was a different scenario though when Mick Wallace was caught using a phone and Callinan told Shatter who later used it against Wallace in a Prime Time debate. In that instance Wallace was not a member of government so it was done solely for political purposes.

Happydays2020

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yeah Harris is covered by a law that says he can inform the government of the day of any instances that might effect their power to govern. Hogan getting stopped was covered by that so Harris told Martin as Taoiseach and McEntee as Minister of Justice

It was a different scenario though when Mick Wallace was caught using a phone and Callinan told Shatter who later used it against Wallace in a Prime Time debate. In that instance Wallace was not a member of government so it was done solely for political purposes.

Harris was smart to pass it on. If he had not then it could be used against the Gardai. What the Government did it the information was their business.

Psychiatric Patrick

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yeah Harris is covered by a law that says he can inform the government of the day of any instances that might effect their power to govern. Hogan getting stopped was covered by that so Harris told Martin as Taoiseach and McEntee as Minister of Justice

It was a different scenario though when Mick Wallace was caught using a phone and Callinan told Shatter who later used it against Wallace in a Prime Time debate. In that instance Wallace was not a member of government so it was done solely for political purposes.

To be honest, I thought it was a requirement that the Guards inform the government of any encounters between them and ministers. Or even of serious incidents involving immediate family.

How would Hogan being stopped have come to Harris' attention? Did a senior Guard just happen to notice it or does Pulse flag incidents involving certain people?

Muahahaha

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

To be honest, I thought it was a requirement that the Guards inform the government of any encounters between them and ministers. Or even of serious incidents involving immediate family.

How would Hogan being stopped have come to Harris' attention? Did a senior Guard just happen to notice it or does Pulse flag incidents involving certain people?

Yeah it is a requirement and Drew Harris was only following the law which is is below, section 41 (c) is the relevant part of the Garda Siochana Act (2005)

41.— (1) The Garda Commissioner shall keep the Minister and the Secretary General of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform fully informed of the following:

(a) matters relating to significant developments concerning—

(i) the preservation of peace and public order in the State,

(ii) the protection of life and property in the State, and

(iii) the protection of the security of the State;

(b) significant developments that might reasonably be expected to affect adversely public confidence in the Garda Síochána;

(c) matters relevant to the accountability of the Government to the Houses of the Oireachtas;

(d) any other matters that, in the Commissioner’s opinion, should be brought to the Minister’s attention.

(2) Whenever required by the Minister, the Garda Commissioner shall submit to the Minister a report on any matters connected with the policing or security of the State or the performance of the Commissioner’s other functions that may be specified in the requirement.

As for how it goes up the chain pretty easily I would say from Garda to Seargant to Inspector to Assistant Commissioner to Drew Harris. It was also logged on Pulse that Hogan received a caution.

No explanation though as to why Phil Hogan got a caution and not 3 penalty points like the rest of us would. Unless he was on the phone to 999 for an emergency its hard to see any good reason for garda discretion being used here. The RSA literally have ads running on the TV and radio at the moment saying there are no grey areas when it comes to talking on your phone when driving.

fly_agaric

I know not of what I speak, but he was working in the EU for 6 years. Maybe using a foreign driving licence at this stage? Would that add to hassle for a guard of trying to do anything more about it than give a warning?
Not deflecting here, I don't know how they deal with minor offenses of people on foreign licences.

jm08

fly_agaric wrote: »

I know not of what I speak, but he was working in the EU for 6 years. Maybe using a foreign driving licence at this stage? Would that add to hassle for a guard of trying to do anything more about it than give a warning?
Not deflecting here, I don't know how they deal with minor offenses of people on foreign licences.

Since Hogan wasn't resident in Ireland and was probably driving a hire car, there isn't much point in giving the 3 points.

As well as that, Hogan more than likely doesn't have any points on his licence (since he is living so long outside the country, if nothing else), so that could influence the garda to just issue a warning.

Personally, I've been stopped once or twice for making minor infringement (late going through lights) and the guard just gave me a warning presumably because I've no points on my licence.

Psychiatric Patrick

fly_agaric wrote: »

I know not of what I speak, but he was working in the EU for 6 years. Maybe using a foreign driving licence at this stage? Would that add to hassle for a guard of trying to do anything more about it than give a warning?
Not deflecting here, I don't know how they deal with minor offenses of people on foreign licences.

Has a driver I would imagine.

Doesn't matter. Are visitors not subject to the same rule of the road as citizens?

Muahahaha

fly_agaric wrote: »

I know not of what I speak, but he was working in the EU for 6 years. Maybe using a foreign driving licence at this stage? Would that add to hassle for a guard of trying to do anything more about it than give a warning?
Not deflecting here, I don't know how they deal with minor offenses of people on foreign licences.

Possible but I know Commissioners have a driver available to them so he wouldnt have been driving around Brussels himself.

Its a moot point though because the penalty is 3 points and a 60 euro fine for driving while talking on a phone. Irrespective of what license he is on the fine should still issue to the address on his drivers license. Its not like having driving license from another EU country suddenly exonerates you from being issued a fine. There are very limited reasons as to why Hogan was offered Garda discretion here.

Theres wider issues here too. What the point in the RSA spending taxpayers money campaigning for an end to phone use if the Gardai arent going to even enforce the law when people are caught? Or is it the case that they are still being choosy as to who they will apply the law to like they were during the penalty points scandal of 2014? Drew Harris should be more upfront about these things and telling us why Hogan was offered discretion here because plenty of people are not given the same chance and they get the fine and the 3 penalty points.

Psychiatric Patrick

Muahahaha wrote: »

Possible but I know Commissioners have a driver available to them so he wouldnt have been driving around Brussels himself.

Its a moot point though because the penalty is 3 points and a 60 euro fine for driving while talking on a phone. Irrespective of what license he is on the fine should still issue to the address on his drivers license. Its not like having driving license from another EU country suddenly exonerates you from being issued a fine. There are very limited reasons as to why Hogan was offered Garda discretion here.

Theres wider issues here too. What the point in the RSA spending taxpayers money campaigning for an end to phone use if the Gardai arent going to even enforce the law when people are caught? Or is it the case that they are still being choosy as to who they will apply the law to like they were during the penalty points scandal of 2014? Drew Harris should be more upfront about these things and telling us why Hogan was offered discretion here because plenty of people are not given the same chance and they get the fine and the 3 penalty points.

Harris seems like guy who wouldn't tolerate his people showing discretion for something like this.