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Home heating automation

[Deleted User]

Just starting to look into this now though probably wont be purchasing for a while unless a bargain pops up.

I know there are a number of options out there for this but many like the Nest for example appear to be mostly based around running automatically depending on temp etc or learning your usage.

What I want to know is which one is best to use like a traditional timer? I'd want to set a schedule for heating and water to come on and off and also boost it if I felt like it. Learning my usage or using the thermostat to turn on/off the heating is not something I would really use.

I do want to be able to boost the heat and water remotely so the place is warm before arriving home and have a nice interface for setting timers using an app as we change around our water and heating timing quite often and its a pain having to do this using the poor user interfaces and controls on a traditional heating timer.

I'm assuming they can all be used in this way but I wonder if any device in particular is more geared towards this type of usage?

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blindsider

Hi All,

I think this has been covered before, but I can't seem to find the post(s)

I have:

- Vokera Mynute Gas boiler + 3 zones: Upstairs, downstairs and HW
- Solar for hot water only
- A standard Horstmann Controller
- Decent internet and wifi via Virgin Media

I'd like to be able to do the following:

- Control the heating and HW via an app - time of day for On/Off etc
- Boost the heating and HW for 1 hour via an app (it's enough to heat the house)
- I'd like to see the temp of the HW in the tank - but I'd live without it

I don't need:

- to control heating by room
- to adjust thermostats or rads etc by room

I'd appreciate a recommendation for a cost-effective solution which would do the basics

Note: we are looking at changing energy supplier too (electricity and gas)

Thanks for reading!

deezell

blindsider wrote: »

Hi All,

I think this has been covered before, but I can't seem to find the post(s)

I have:

- Vokera Mynute Gas boiler + 3 zones: Upstairs, downstairs and HW
- Solar for hot water only
- A standard Horstmann Controller
- Decent internet and wifi via Virgin Media

I'd like to be able to do the following:

- Control the heating and HW via an app - time of day for On/Off etc
- Boost the heating and HW for 1 hour via an app (it's enough to heat the house)
- I'd like to see the temp of the HW in the tank - but I'd live without it

I don't need:

- to control heating by room
- to adjust thermostats or rads etc by room

I'd appreciate a recommendation for a cost-effective solution which would do the basics

Note: we are looking at changing energy supplier too (electricity and gas)

Thanks for reading!

Last thing first, energy supplier upgrades are confined to a single zone. Somehow through lies and statistics they can claim whopping EU grant funds on your behalf by installing the most basic single zone stat controller. There's even cases of people with 2 heating zones having their system reverted to one, and these chancers then claim ( on your behalf), that your home in now more energy efficient. Rant over.
What you need is a 3 zone smart controller, to directly wire in place of your existing Horstman. This will have wireless stats to position in the respective zones, ( usually Hall and landing, or living and landing.) Setting on/off with smart app control systems is more about setting low temperature times and warmer temperature times than just on and off. You'll get used to this. The HW control is just timing, aided by a mechanical cylinder stat if you already have one
The tidiest system for this at the moment is the Drayton Wiser Kit 3. Replacement controller, a few minutes to wire in place of the Horstman, and two wireless stats you pair to the controller and position in the zones. Job done.
Taking a reading of cylinder temperature is not high on the agenda of smart controllers, but a few high end options are available, such as the Honeywell Evohome system. You really just want a mechanical stat on the cylinder which will interrupt the HW timer slot when the water hits target temperature.

blindsider

Brilliant!!!

That's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for!

I'll go and investigate the Drayton - where to buy etc.

Thanks a mill!

I'll update if/when we do it.

2011

deezell wrote: »

Last thing first, energy supplier upgrades are confined to a single zone. Somehow through lies and statistics they can claim whopping EU grant funds on your behalf by installing the most basic single zone stat controller. There's even cases of people with 2 heating zones having their system reverted to one, and these chancers then claim ( on your behalf), that your home in now more energy efficient. Rant over.

Point well made.

championc

I bought a whole Tado suite and personally installed them. Can I personally apply for anything ?

Ethereal Cereal

championc wrote: »

I bought a whole Tado suite and personally installed them. Can I personally apply for anything ?

You need to get the work carried out by a registered contractor
https://hes.seai.ie/GrantProcess/ContractorSearch.aspx

I am changing my regular boiler to a combi boiler. Each rad will get a wifi contolled trv. I asked the plumber could I claim this back on the SEI grant, and he said there was too many checks involved, etc etc, and that Id nearly want to spend €2k to get the €700 back.

Anyone know if this is right?

deezell

Ethereal Cereal wrote: »

You need to get the work carried out by a registered contractor
https://hes.seai.ie/GrantProcess/ContractorSearch.aspx

I am changing my regular boiler to a combi boiler. Each rad will get a wifi contolled trv. I asked the plumber could I claim this back on the SEI grant, and he said there was too many checks involved, etc etc, and that Id nearly want to spend €2k to get the €700 back.

Anyone know if this is right?

Sadly, yes. Only the utility companies can install the bare minimum and get the dough without you seeing it. It's no surprise that the quote for a grant aided installation seems to be increased by the grant and then more. I recall seeing quotes for single Nest of €1200, after grant. I had to sit down to recover.

CiaranTheGreat

Has anyone here gotten a Beok thermostat to work with sky broadband? I had it working with virgin which I have since cancelled and I can’t get it working with the new sky broadband. I’ve logged into the modem and turned the 5ghz off as that was an issue with the virgin broadband but it didn’t work

Any help would be great

deezell

CiaranTheGreat wrote: »

Has anyone here gotten a Beok thermostat to work with sky broadband? I had it working with virgin which I have since cancelled and I can’t get it working with the new sky broadband. I’ve logged into the modem and turned the 5ghz off as that was an issue with the virgin broadband but it didn’t work

Any help would be great

At a guess you might need to do a factory reset on the stat, as it's possibly looking for the Mac address of the old router, rather than IP. With these devices you often have to start by connecting to them via phone app with the stat as the Wi-Fi source, disconnecting your phone from the router wifi, then using the app through the stat wifi to connect to the router. The stat would need to be in 'New from box' mode, hence a reset. There might be a little button, or a key combination. What model is it?

deezell

This any help?
https://youtu.be/2XoDGdKc8eM

CiaranTheGreat

deezell wrote: »

At a guess you might need to do a factory reset on the stat, as it's possibly looking for the Mac address of the old router, rather than IP. With these devices you often have to start by connecting to them via phone app with the stat as the Wi-Fi source, disconnecting your phone from the router wifi, then using the app through the stat wifi to connect to the router. The stat would need to be in 'New from box' mode, hence a reset. There might be a little button, or a key combination. What model is it?

It’s the boy-313 model. There is a key combo thing you do to reset it before connecting but it always fails. There is no option to connect to it as a WiFi source. I have even connected to my wife’s phone as a hotspot to see would that work if I tried connecting it to that but no joy.

CiaranTheGreat

deezell wrote: »

This any help?
https://youtu.be/2XoDGdKc8eM

Unfortunately no. It’s a different model to mine but the basis of it is correct. I have done the reset actions for my model but still nothing. It’s a head melter.

deezell

CiaranTheGreat wrote: »

Unfortunately no. It’s a different model to mine but the basis of it is correct. I have done the reset actions for my model but still nothing. It’s a head melter.

I've had a look at the instructions
http://www.tkarena.it/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/BOT-313WIFI-Series-Boiler-Thermostat-Instruction.pdf

All I can suggest is that you delete the Beok app from your phone and reinstall it. Then setup the device exactly as per the instructions, youll need to see the 'twinkling' Wi-Fi symbol. It doesn't say in the instructions, but you would normally at this point disconnect your phone from the house Wi-Fi, and search for the Beok as a Wi-Fi access point, a and connect to it. Then open the Beok app and proceed with the next step. If you successfully add the Beok to your home Wi-Fi, don't forget to connect your phone back to home Wi-Fi. This is generally how these devices work, a direct connection to your phone until the device is configured to your network. It may be that the app handles some of this Wi-Fi source changing.

deezell

Actually reading the instructions, it seem that the app maintains connection with your router while in direct client mode with the Beok, and I note the additional instructions in the event of band conflict. If your Wi-Fi router is not broadcasting at 2.4Ghz, then you will have to configure the router if possible to this band or dual band ( 2.4 SSID can be set to a different name so the app can be programmed to connect to 2.4 , ignoring 5). All this of course depends on getting to the stat Wi-Fi direct to phone phase. Log onto your router also just to check if the stat is currently seen by the router. Did you replicate your old SSID and password into the new router?

CiaranTheGreat

deezell wrote: »

Actually reading the instructions, it seem that the app maintains connection with your router while in direct client mode with the Beok, and I note the additional instructions in the event of band conflict. If your Wi-Fi router is not broadcasting at 2.4Ghz, then you will have to configure the router if possible to this band or dual band ( 2.4 SSID can be set to a different name so the app can be programmed to connect to 2.4 , ignoring 5). All this of course depends on getting to the stat Wi-Fi direct to phone phase. Log onto your router also just to check if the stat is currently seen by the router. Did you replicate your old SSID and password into the new router?

Oh my god I never thought about that. That could work. I still have the virgin modem so I’ll have a go tonight and change the name. Although because you do a reset before trying to connect it to the WiFi ,it may not even remember the old network and not work but it’s worth a shot

CiaranTheGreat

deezell wrote: »

Actually reading the instructions, it seem that the app maintains connection with your router while in direct client mode with the Beok, and I note the additional instructions in the event of band conflict. If your Wi-Fi router is not broadcasting at 2.4Ghz, then you will have to configure the router if possible to this band or dual band ( 2.4 SSID can be set to a different name so the app can be programmed to connect to 2.4 , ignoring 5). All this of course depends on getting to the stat Wi-Fi direct to phone phase. Log onto your router also just to check if the stat is currently seen by the router. Did you replicate your old SSID and password into the new router?

Tried the duplicate name of the old router which didn’t work. I am genuinely at a loss. I genuinely haven’t a breeze as to why it isnt working. There is no WiFi signal from the thermostat to connect to but there is no mention of that in the instructions.

I’m half tempted to just buy a new different stat

xckjoo

CiaranTheGreat wrote: »

Tried the duplicate name of the old router which didn’t work. I am genuinely at a loss. I genuinely haven’t a breeze as to why it isnt working. There is no WiFi signal from the thermostat to connect to but there is no mention of that in the instructions.

I’m half tempted to just buy a new different stat

Did you get the reset working so that you can see the "quick and frequent twinkling" WiFi icon?

CiaranTheGreat

xckjoo wrote: »

Did you get the reset working so that you can see the "quick and frequent twinkling" WiFi icon?

Yeah it only fails at the trying to connect to the network part

xckjoo

CiaranTheGreat wrote: »

Yeah it only fails at the trying to connect to the network part

I'd guess you're falling victim to an aging wireless chip that doesn't quite implement the WiFi standards right. It should technically still work but I don't know if you'll find easy step-by-step instructions and there's a chance it's just not going to work for whatever reason.

I did find someone with a similar issue here and they managed to get it working. Looks like they switched their router to use and older WiFi standard, got the stat connected and then switched the WiFi back to something more modern. Might be worth a try

championc

It's quite possible that the wifi must be on 2.4ghz, on modes 802.11b or g (not n). Most phones, tablets and laptops will use 5ghz, but all devices will support 2.4ghz on 802.11b. b is the slowest speed.

The likes of wireless thermostats could well use 434mhz radio signals

deezell

championc wrote: »

It's quite possible that the wifi must be on 2.4ghz, on modes 802.11b or g (not n). Most phones, tablets and laptops will use 5ghz, but all devices will support 2.4ghz on 802.11b. b is the slowest speed.

The likes of wireless thermostats could well use 434mhz radio signals

It does, check the instructions I linked. Your phone would also need to be searching for 2.4G.

garo

Are you able to get it to connect to your phone after the reset?

For the router, make sure you enable b/g/n on the 2.4GHz frequency. Only having the n mode may cause an issue. And newer routers have n mode only turned on by default.

deezell

Try the following:
Download a Wi-Fi analyser app to your phone, such as, er, 'Wi-Fi Analyser",
Go into settings on your phone, select your current Wi-Fi network, and click 'Forget'. Also, turn off mobile data.
Using the Wi-Fi Analyser app, see if you can discover the 2.4Ghz signal from the Stat while it's in Twinkly mode.
Use the app to select this signal as your AP.
Now run the Beok app and see does it connect to the device.
If success,
Then configure your router as a 2.4 only, all types. Give it a unique SSID and pass.
Configure the stat via the Beok app to use this AP
Now finish the installation, and reconnect the phone to the 2.4 AP of the router, (use the WiFi analyser for this also if the phone doesn't discover it and add to the wifi networks list. and check for connection to the app.

Finally, you can configure the routers 5Ghz AP and turn it on, for faster connections, and select this for your phone.The stat should stay connected via 2.4.

CiaranTheGreat

Hi guys,

Thanks a million for your help. I got a whiskey ready and was planning on spending the night reading through the replies and going through every step outlined by you guys again. We got sky q in today and the box required me to use a WPS button on the router (which even though is quite obvious now, took ages to find) to connect the box to the WiFi.

Couldn’t hurt to press the button while i tried to sync the phone to the thermostat and low and behold it worked. Couldn’t believe it and kept turning it on and off on my phone to make sure that I wasn’t dreaming.

I’ve no idea what that magic button does but it did it.

Thanks a million for the help, I will put money in the charity box at the shop tomorrow in your honour.

Thanks a million

deezell

"I’ve no idea what that magic button does...."

It accepts for a short period any connections being sought by devices without the device having the id or passkey of the router. It would also connect via the appropriate band, so it seems your router picked up the connection request directly from the Beok, gave it the id and passkey and configured it to the 2.4Ghz band, without you having to intervene via the phone app to supply these crucial parameters. Happy days, and a new trick learned.
I've had a few sticky moments trying to join Lenovo devices to my network using it's device configuration app. I can't even remember if I may have pressed the wps router button in frustration, but that could be it. We should be thanking you.

CiaranTheGreat

I’m that happy that it’s working that when my wife asked me to put the heating on I didn’t even complain that it is still August

strangel00p

Hi there,
I have a traditional gas boiler and would be interested in getting a Nest system installed for home automation.

I know zilch about heating and plumbing and have no idea how to install this.

So would anyone have a very rough ball park figure on how much it would cost for plumber to install this Nest thermostat for a 3 bed house with 7 basic radiators? None of the radiators have thermostats installed.

Thanks

championc

strangel00p wrote: »

Hi there,
I have a traditional gas boiler and would be interested in getting a Nest system installed for home automation.

I know zilch about heating and plumbing and have no idea how to install this.

So would anyone have a very rough ball park figure on how much it would cost for plumber to install this Nest thermostat for a 3 bed house with 7 basic radiators? None of the radiators have thermostats installed.

Thanks

As I understand it, a Nest is just a more intelligent room stat, so since your system has no radiator thermostats, you will have a room stat in the hall or sitting room, and the nest would simply replace that - so a quick DIY job

I think it only gets complicated if you had a room stat upstairs too, or zone valves, but I stand to be corrected

Mickeroo

championc wrote: »

As I understand it, a Nest is just a more intelligent room stat, so since your system has no radiator thermostats, you will have a room stat in the hall or sitting room, and the nest would simply replace that - so a quick DIY job

I think it only gets complicated if you had a room stat upstairs too, or zone valves, but I stand to be corrected

You also need to replace your heating controls with the heat link for the thermostat to work. If the system is zoned then you need two stats (and two heat links).

Electric Ireland were doing an offer where you can get one installed for €130 if you switch to them.

deezell

strangel00p wrote: »

Hi there,
I have a traditional gas boiler and would be interested in getting a Nest system installed for home automation.

I know zilch about heating and plumbing and have no idea how to install this.

So would anyone have a very rough ball park figure on how much it would cost for plumber to install this Nest thermostat for a 3 bed house with 7 basic radiators? None of the radiators have thermostats installed.

Thanks

Do you have a wall thermostat? Do you have more than one? Do you have a controller box with programable heating times, and possibly programable Hot water times.
Do you have a HW cylinder in a hot press, or does you HW come directly from the gas boiler on demand. The above will determine the ease with which a Neat stat can be connected.