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Ajax wireless alarm system

Bluefoam

I'm getting an Ajax alarm installed by HomeSecure & considering including their StreetSiren, which is the equivalent of a siren box.

The system is generally wireless and doesn't use the pre wired cables in the house. However, the StreetSiren can operate by batteries or hardwired via 12v supply.

Most new houses have a cable behind the bricks in the facia of the house... Will this be suitable to power the siren?

Alarm:
https://ajax.systems/

Siren:
https://ajax.systems/products/streetsiren/

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altor

Bluefoam wrote: »

I'm getting an Ajax alarm installed by HomeSecure & considering including their StreetSiren, which is the equivalent of a siren box.

The system is generally wireless and doesn't use the pre wired cables in the house. However, the StreetSiren can operate by batteries or hardwired via 12v supply.

Most new houses have a cable behind the bricks in the facia of the house... Will this be suitable to power the siren?

Alarm:
https://ajax.systems/

Siren:
https://ajax.systems/products/streetsiren/

Yes if it is alarm cable then it could be used.

Bluefoam

altor wrote: »

Yes if it is alarm cable then it could be used.

Thanks. I presume the cable is behind the bricks... The installer drills through and fishes out the cable?

altor

Bluefoam wrote: »

Thanks. I presume the cable is behind the bricks... The installer drills through and fishes out the cable?

Is your house wired for an alarm?

Bluefoam

altor wrote: »

Is your house wired for an alarm?

Yes, it's a new build, wired for alarm.

altor

Bluefoam wrote: »

Yes, it's a new build, wired for alarm.

Cable could be in the attic or behind a plate in a front room so installer can drill out to front of house.

Are they installing a wired or wire free alarm?

Bluefoam

altor wrote: »

Cable could be in the attic or behind a plate in a front room so installer can drill out to front of house.

Are they installing a wired or wire free alarm?

It's a wire free alarm

altor

Bluefoam wrote: »

It's a wire free alarm

Wired would always be preferable if cables are installed.
Also, wire free is more expensive re sensors and batteries, especially if needing to replace them.

Did they give a reason for not wanting to use the cables?

Bluefoam

altor wrote: »

Wired would always be preferable if cables are installed.
Also, wire free is more expensive re sensors and batteries, especially if needing to replace them.

Did they give a reason for not wanting to use the cables?

I chose the system, then the security company... The batteries have a life up to seven years. The system is flexible and can work if the power is cut, broadband or mobile network is down. It is heavily customisable and controllable via the app... Components can be added ad hok, it has fire, carbon monoxide and flood sensors, will eventually be able to integrate with my smart home and is compatible with a wide range of IP camera...

I don't see the advantage of a wired system.

altor

Bluefoam wrote: »

I chose the system, then the security company... The batteries have a life up to seven years. The system is flexible and can work if the power is cut, broadband or mobile network is down. It is heavily customisable and controllable via the app... Components can be added ad hok, it has fire, carbon monoxide and flood sensors, will eventually be able to integrate with my smart home and is compatible with a wide range of IP camera...

I don't see the advantage of a wired system.

With most systems been hybrid then you are covered in both as you could have a mixed of wired and wire free.
Ajax do have a Transmitter which could be used to have wired and wire free sensors added.
Id be looking into that as it could also save you money rather than going fully wire free.

All systems will work in the event of a power cut as they use back up batteries.
Comms if down will not work.

Can the Ajax system not integrate with a smart hub, like google or others?

Bluefoam

altor wrote: »

Can the Ajax system not integrate with a smart hub, like google or others?

Not yet, they are promoting their own integrations at the moment, but I believe there will be Google Home support in the future. It would be good to integrate some lighting

Bluefoam

Just for clarity... The wire in the attic is live and doesn't need to be connected to anything at the other end?

altor

Bluefoam wrote: »

Not yet, they are promoting their own integrations at the moment, but I believe there will be Google Home support in the future. It would be good to integrate some lighting

Definitely would, its what most systems are missing but they have their own devices for home automation.

I use sonoff devices to control lights/heating. also as I get a text from the alarm I use it to trigger lights for alarm activations using IFTTT. Think I read if you use your own sim card on the Ajax you can get text messages from the system but dont quote me on that

If so you can do the same.

The thing I dont agree with from a security point of view is the geofencing, on/off or the arming and disarming the system using commands and codes spoken out.

I dont know much the Ajax system as it is new to the market and home secure have the rights to it here but can be brought in through other channels if needs be. One issue is if you have a zone open when trying to set the alarm is it beeps and you have to go around the house to see whats open, realistically they should have an LCD display so you can see whats open or even for voice prompts.

altor

Bluefoam wrote: »

Just for clarity... The wire in the attic is live and doesn't need to be connected to anything at the other end?

The cable will go back to the location of all the cables from the alarm.
From the spec it looks like it is a wire free bell but you can just have a 12V power supply installed at location of cables to power the bell.
Make sure you get a boxed power supply and install a back up battery as well.

altor wrote: »

The thing I dont agree with from a security point of view is the geofencing, on/off or the arming and disarming the system using commands and codes spoken out.

Add fobs and rfid tags that can disarm your alarm system to that list! You not only lose your house keys, but they can also conveniently disarm your alarm, dumb!!

I’d argue significantly worse then even using voice+pin to control a system.

Having said that such voice control and geofencing are optional on this system. You can of course just use the keypad or app instead.

On geofencing I’d point out that some systems, like my Yale and Nest, don’t actually arm/disarm by geofencing. Instead they just notify you if they notice you are out and the system isn’t armed. I think this is a really good idea and a nice reminder, sort of similar to the way that an alarm system will remind you if you leave a door or window open. I’d agree that geofencing is not good enough for actual arming/disarming.

On your point of the Ajax system not telling you which door/window is open, the app would tell you that, so no need to run around your house. Not ideal I agree, I prefer keypads with a screen.

altor

bk wrote: »

Add fobs and rfid tags that can disarm your alarm system to that list! You not only lose your house keys, but they can also conveniently disarm your alarm, dumb!!

Yes Id agree and add them to the list, some fobs can be set for code unset which is a safer solution.

bk wrote: »

I’d argue significantly worse then even using voice+pin to control a system.

Pins on alarm are safe once only users know them, speaking out your code to disarm you alarm would be a different scenario.

bk wrote: »

Having said that such voice control and geofencing are optional on this system. You can of course just use the keypad or app instead.

On geofencing I’d point out that some systems, like my Yale and Nest, don’t actually arm/disarm by geofencing. Instead they just notify you if they notice you are out and the system isn’t armed. I think this is a really good idea and a nice reminder, sort of similar to the way that an alarm system will remind you if you leave a door or window open. I’d agree that geofencing is not good enough for actual arming/disarming.

Id agree also re the arming/disarming.

bk wrote: »

On your point of the Ajax system not telling you which door/window is open, the app would tell you that, so no need to run around your house. Not ideal I agree, I prefer keypads with a screen.

Id agree also its not ideal and very backward if you have a system that you actually need to open an app to see whats open and closed.
LCD keypad or voice prompts would be a easy fix to this solution.

altor wrote: »

Yes Id agree and add them to the list, some fobs can be set for code unset which is a safer solution.

Yep, but you and I know it is rarely used as such. Doing so defeats the purpose of such fobs, which is convenience.

altor wrote: »

Pins on alarm are safe once only users know them, speaking out your code to disarm you alarm would be a different scenario.

Sure, but in a normal residential setting, that isn't going to be much issue in reality, everyone will know the PIN anyway. If you are bringing a stranger home

you can always use the keypad for that time, just make sure they don't shoulder surf you

BTW Google Home actually has voice recognition, it can differentiate between me and my better half, playing from our individual Spotify accounts when we talk to it, etc. I don't think this is at a high enough level of reliability yet for security, but it is only a matter of time. AIB have actually started using voice recognition to identify customers when you call their help line!

I actually wonder when someone builds face ID type biometric tech into a security camera. Imagine a camera at your front door that scans the face of each person who enters and disarms the alarm when it sees you. It could also arm the system when it sees that everyone has left.

Netatmo already has something like this on it's cameras, but I don't think it has anything like face ID level of reliability yet.

It is definitely going to be an interesting space to watch develop over the next few years. Lots of interesting possibilities.

altor wrote: »

Id agree also its not ideal and very backward if you have a system that you actually need to open an app to see whats open and closed.
LCD keypad or voice prompts would be a easy fix to this solution.

Well, you don't necessarily have to open an app. When it fails to arm, the system can just send you a notification of why it failed, you can read it by just glancing at your phone lock screen, much quicker then needing to open the app. I don't know if Ajax does this, but if it doesn't it should, it would make up for the lack of screen.

But I agree I'd prefer if it had a screen. My Yale system doesn't have a screen, I don't like that, but neither is it the end of the world, it is relatively seldom that I forget to lock a window, but it would be nicer if it had it. It isn't a big enough to be a deal breaker, just a minor annoyance/con.

Actually on that, I don't know why no one is using e-ink screens on their keypads. e-ink is great, always on screen and at a fraction of the power usage of a LED screen. My Netatmo Smart Thermostat has such a screen and it is great, works really well, years of battery life out of it. Would be perfect for use in alarm keypads like these.

Anyway always fun to chat and think about these things

altor

bk wrote: »

Yep, but you and I know it is rarely used as such. Doing so defeats the purpose of such fobs, which is convenience.

Yes Id agree with that bk, I would always recommend on fobs that would be used for the purpose of putting them on your keys.

bk wrote: »

Sure, but in a normal residential setting, that isn't going to be much issue in reality, everyone will know the PIN anyway. If you are bringing a stranger home you can always use the keypad for that time, just make sure they don't shoulder surf you

Hahaha you just never know whos watching, plus if you look at older keypads its not rocket science to work out codes from dirty and clean buttons

bk wrote: »

BTW Google Home actually has voice recognition, it can differentiate between me and my better half, playing from our individual Spotify accounts when we talk to it, etc. I don't think this is at a high enough level of reliability yet for security, but it is only a matter of time. AIB have actually started using voice recognition to identify customers when you call their help line!

Yes they do but its more so the speaking of your user code than the voice recognition which can be used to disarm your alarm system I was thinking along the lines of.

bk wrote: »

I actually wonder when someone builds face ID type biometric tech into a security camera. Imagine a camera at your front door that scans the face of each person who enters and disarms the alarm when it sees you. It could also arm the system when it sees that everyone has left.

Netatmo already has something like this on it's cameras, but I don't think it has anything like face ID level of reliability yet.

It is definitely going to be an interesting space to watch develop over the next few years. Lots of interesting possibilities.

It sure is, technology is moving so fast along that something done last year is superseded the next. Its good to be moving with the times, just need a few alarm companies to do the same re the home automation side of things and we will be all happy.

bk wrote: »

Well, you don't necessarily have to open an app. When it fails to arm, the system can just send you a notification of why it failed, you can read it by just glancing at your phone lock screen, much quicker then needing to open the app. I don't know if Ajax does this, but if it doesn't it should, it would make up for the lack of screen.

But I agree I'd prefer if it had a screen. My Yale system doesn't have a screen, I don't like that, but neither is it the end of the world, it is relatively seldom that I forget to lock a window, but it would be nicer if it had it. It isn't a big enough to be a deal breaker, just a minor annoyance/con.

You do on the Ajax system. LCD screen or even a voice anounations of the open zones would be the ideal solution.

bk wrote: »

Anyway always fun to chat and think about these things

Always good to have constructive banter re these system and what they should be bringing to the table to make end users life easier

Duke of Url

Bluefoam wrote: »

I'm getting an Ajax alarm installed by HomeSecure & considering including their StreetSiren, which is the equivalent of a siren box.

The system is generally wireless and doesn't use the pre wired cables in the house. However, the StreetSiren can operate by batteries or hardwired via 12v supply.

Most new houses have a cable behind the bricks in the facia of the house... Will this be suitable to power the siren?

Alarm:
https://ajax.systems/

Siren:
https://ajax.systems/products/streetsiren/

Do you mind me asking what you got installed and did home secure install the Ajax siren for you instead of there branded siren box?

Bluefoam

House on hold: Covid

machiavellianme

Why not purchase the system and install it yourself?

Duke of Url

I priced it up for a diy install and looks like 810 euros which seems alright. I’m not one for heights for the external siren which I would like hardwired in a new build.

I’m wondering will there be a home insurance question if I do it myself.

machiavellianme

Duke of Url wrote: »

I priced it up for a diy install and looks like 810 euros which seems alright. I’m not one for heights for the external siren which I would like hardwired in a new build.

I’m wondering will there be a home insurance question if I do it myself.

The advice on here seems to be not to mention any security alarm when renewing home insurance. It give the insurers a way to wiggle out of paying if you forget to arm the system. The saving is tiny in comparison to the extra risk of not paying out.

Duke of Url

altor

Duke of Url wrote: »

Pulled the trigger and submitted my Order today for a self install.

Ordered from here - https://www.megateh.eu/

AJAX | Hub 2
AJAX | Space Control
AJAX | Door Protect
AJAX | Street Siren
AJAX | Leaks Protect
AJAX | Fire Protect
AJAX | Home Siren
AJAX | Key Pad
AJAX | Panic Button

How much did that cost?
Did you only get one contact or what type of sensors did you get to protect windows, doors internal sensors?
Do they supply the sim cards for the alarm system, any cost in upkeep of the sim card?

Pete123456

Duke of Url wrote: »

Pulled the trigger and submitted my Order today for a self install.

Ordered from here - https://www.megateh.eu/

AJAX | Hub 2
AJAX | Space Control
AJAX | Door Protect
AJAX | Street Siren
AJAX | Leaks Protect
AJAX | Fire Protect
AJAX | Home Siren
AJAX | Key Pad
AJAX | Panic Button

Can I ask Duke, how you found the install and any good or bad feedback since you installed? Would you swap any of the sensors or pick up more if you were to go again?

Duke of Url

Pete123456 wrote: »

Can I ask Duke, how you found the install and any good or bad feedback since you installed? Would you swap any of the sensors or pick up more if you were to go again?

My setup is working exactly as I intended with no issues so far.

I do have feedback ( Advice ) on installation

When installing the Door Protect on the Windows and Doors, Use the screws and not the 3M tape that comes with the different products.

the 3M tape will hold the small magnets but not the sensors or large magnets.

You also need to be aware that on the Door Protect Sensors that the magnets can only be mounted on the Right side of the sensor( There is an Arrow on the sensor to show you the correct side.

Lastly, When mounting the sensors with screws, you have a nano turn difference between installing the mount for the sensor and cracking it so go very slow when tightening it.

I have the following amount of sensors installed

AJAX Hub 2 X1
AJAX Key Pad X1
Ajax. Panic Alarm Button X1
AjAX Space Control X 1
AJAX Internal Siren X1
AJAX External Siren X1
AJAX Door Protect ( On Doors ) X 2
AJAX Door Protect ( On Windows) X12
AJAX Fire Protect X2
AJAX LeaksProtect X1

The only thing I would change is I would swap the Hub 2 for the for the Hub Plus or Hub 2 Plus

This is due to the Hub 2 needs a LAN Connection where the Plus model can use Wifi.

Im contemplating on getting the Motion Protects but I have dogs in the house which could maybe trigger the Alarm.

I will most likely use Eufy Security Cameras internally instead as I use them externally along with the Eufy Doorbell.

kub

With regard to your Dogs, is there a Pet Immune Beam available from Ajax ?

Pete123456

kub wrote: »

With regard to your Dogs, is there a Pet Immune Beam available from Ajax ?

Supposedly the motion sensors are immune to pets up to 50cm?

https://ajax.systems/products/motionprotect/

Duke of Url

Pete123456 wrote: »

Supposedly the motion sensors are immune to pets up to 50cm?

https://ajax.systems/products/motionprotect/

Yep but I won’t risk it. The internal and external sirens are set as very loud and I don’t want the dogs triggering it due to a motion glitch.

It’s the same reason I didn’t get the Door Protect plus due to the Shock detector. My dogs sit on the window sills looking out and like to go mad when they see us or a cat in the driveway.

bifl

Duke of Url wrote: »

I priced it up for a diy install and looks like 810 euros which seems alright. I’m not one for heights for the external siren which I would like hardwired in a new build.

I’m wondering will there be a home insurance question if I do it myself.

Hi Duke,
I'm the same as you I'd do the wireless bit myself but dont have the ladder or head for installing the external siren.

What I'm wondering is how did you power the external box. I do have the house pre-wired so there is an external cable but it's running back to where all the pre-wired alarm cables go waiting to be powered up by a HKC control panel /power source lets say.

How did you power the Ajax external box ? Does it mean I need to put the Ajax countol panel where the external siren cable end up ? I do have power up in the attic which I could get to the box either ?

Finally on another note. I've see advice here a number of times that if your pre-wired best go for it. I could never get really why over an Ajax say. How did you rationallise this for you?