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FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

Tom Young

This is the new FE1 Exam Thread

This is a link to the old one: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055143169

This is a link to the next one: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056907164

Sorry, I'm aware we are in the throws of FE1 season, but due to a server issue, a new thread was required. Old chats and posts below - Thanks!

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Moderator: The above warnings mean it is not ok to buy, sell or swap (trade) any exam materials in this thread. Exam grids are the only exception. You may request and exchange exam grids but at no point will money be allowed to change hands for them.

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Lallers96

Fe1student1234 wrote: »

People who didn’t do an undergrad in law would easily have never heard of milk rounds

It’s just a name used for the application process for the bigger firms

Smaller firms advertise for trainees differently and throughout the year

Thanks. Yes after spending 4 years studying law in NUIG you are given little to no help with the post grad side of things, other than "please do a post grad course with us €€€". In short, you get feck all career advice or anything to be honest.

Aoibhin511

Anyone have grids for property and contract?
Can swap EU, Constitutional and Tort

Aoibhin511

Lallers96 wrote: »

Thanks. Yes after spending 4 years studying law in NUIG you are given little to no help with the post grad side of things, other than "please do a post grad course with us €€€". In short, you get feck all career advice or anything to be honest.

Honestly Trinity was the same, just found out about milkrounds etc by word of mouth.

L.E.D

Aoibhin511 wrote: »

Anyone have grids for property and contract?
Can swap EU, Constitutional and Tort

Pm me email and I can send them on ðŸ˜Š

HU123

Would anyone who sat EU and Tort this week be able to post the topics that came up ..It would be really appreciated!

[Deleted User]

Would anyone be able to offer some insight into the advantages of big firms vs smaller? Obviously the big 4/5 would pay more and hire more trainees, but they’re also more competitive and I presume work you harder? Have heard reports of a lot of 12 hour days from them. I also don’t live in Dublin so presumably rent costs would take a big chunk out of a nice paycheck. Would you be at a big disadvantage to train with a smaller firm? Is it something that could possibly be looked down on by some in the legal world etc?

Would love if anyone could offer any advice here!

Lallers96

I would also appreciate any advice to the above question.

I'd rather not pay a good 15k+ a year for rent in Dublin just to work there and have most of my expenses go to rent. Living in Dublin for our generation is not at all attractive

Dunne1995

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Would anyone be able to offer some insight into the advantages of big firms vs smaller? Obviously the big 4/5 would pay more and hire more trainees, but they’re also more competitive and I presume work you harder? Have heard reports of a lot of 12 hour days from them. I also don’t live in Dublin so presumably rent costs would take a big chunk out of a nice paycheck. Would you be at a big disadvantage to train with a smaller firm? Is it something that could possibly be looked down on by some in the legal world etc?

Would love if anyone could offer any advice here!

Am somewhat biased but training in a smaller firm is completely different from the larger firms. I was in court on day one of my traineeship with a small firm and was meeting clients within the first few months.

Larger firms you are paid double the wage, but work double the hours and are one of 40-50 others in the same boat, very difficult to stand out and be asked to take on more responsibility.

What is right for you depends on the area of law you can see yourself working in. Trainees in large firms wont handle regular residential conveyances or draft a will. Similarly, I've never been involved in a multi million euro merger or in commercial litigation, for example.

Happy to answer any questions you might have about the process in messages or here, best of luck with the journey!

IgoPAP

Apart from being well taken care of (top of the market salaries, having all of your expenses paid for - Blackhall fees, Fe-1's costs, etc.), the big firms offer exposure to a lot of high profile deals and transactions - the things that make the newspapers. You're also working with the top lawyers in the field. The disadvantage is that you'll be worked much harder.

IgoPAP

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Would anyone be able to offer some insight into the advantages of big firms vs smaller? Obviously the big 4/5 would pay more and hire more trainees, but they’re also more competitive and I presume work you harder? Have heard reports of a lot of 12 hour days from them. I also don’t live in Dublin so presumably rent costs would take a big chunk out of a nice paycheck. Would you be at a big disadvantage to train with a smaller firm? Is it something that could possibly be looked down on by some in the legal world etc?

Would love if anyone could offer any advice here!

I suppose it depends on what your interests are? Training at a big firm is considered more prestigious I think, but lots of people are not suited for that environment and understandably so. You'll definitely get more hands on experience training at a smaller place.

[Deleted User]

IgoPAP wrote: »

I suppose it depends on what your interests are? Training at a big firm is considered more prestigious I think, but lots of people are not suited for that environment and understandably so. You'll definitely get more hands on experience training at a smaller place.

I’m unsure if it’s possible but I think I would like a mix of commercial and private client! I was previously an intern in a commercial form (not in Dublin and not one of the big ones) and I really liked the work but even then I was doing long days and so was everyone else in the firm. I don’t have any experience with residential conveyancing, wills or litigation but I would like to try my hand at it, that’s why I’m not sure about the big Dublin firms as I don’t believe they handle that kind of work. I wouldn’t want to restrict future career prospects either though (this is all of course on the very unlikely presumption that I am somehow in a position to turn down any TC!)

Dunne1995

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I’m unsure if it’s possible but I think I would like a mix of commercial and private client! I was previously an intern in a commercial form (not in Dublin and not one of the big ones) and I really liked the work but even then I was doing long days and so was everyone else in the firm. I don’t have any experience with residential conveyancing, wills or litigation but I would like to try my hand at it, that’s why I’m not sure about the big Dublin firms as I don’t believe they handle that kind of work. I wouldn’t want to restrict future career prospects either though (this is all of course on the very unlikely presumption that I am somehow in a position to turn down any TC!)

Do another internship in a general practice, at least then you'll know which you prefer.

Dont worry about which route you take (if you are lucky enough to have the choice!)

Plenty of solicitors retrain and change practice areas, moving from smaller practices to big ones and into in-house as well all the time, you arent resigning yourself to a particularly area based on where you train, it's not like that.

Fe1student1234

Aoibhin511 wrote: »

Honestly Trinity was the same, just found out about milkrounds etc by word of mouth.

UCD is the same just have to be proactive and go to the law fairs and do your research !! Some firms don’t hire trainees until they’ve completed the FE1s so its important to keep that in mind

IgoPAP

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I’m unsure if it’s possible but I think I would like a mix of commercial and private client! I was previously an intern in a commercial form (not in Dublin and not one of the big ones) and I really liked the work but even then I was doing long days and so was everyone else in the firm. I don’t have any experience with residential conveyancing, wills or litigation but I would like to try my hand at it, that’s why I’m not sure about the big Dublin firms as I don’t believe they handle that kind of work. I wouldn’t want to restrict future career prospects either though (this is all of course on the very unlikely presumption that I am somehow in a position to turn down any TC!)

Perhaps apply for summer internships? You'll have a chance to know if you're suited towards a big firm or not, and if you get lucky you might get offered a TC at the end.

Fe1student1234

Not everyone gets the opportunity to train in those big commercial firms in Dublin.

In my opinion I don’t think it really matters where you train as long as you like it and are happy working there plus at the end of the day everyone has the same qualification as Solicitors no matter what

channing90

Dunne1995 wrote: »

Am somewhat biased but training in a smaller firm is completely different from the larger firms. I was in court on day one of my traineeship with a small firm and was meeting clients within the first few months.

Larger firms you are paid double the wage, but work double the hours and are one of 40-50 others in the same boat, very difficult to stand out and be asked to take on more responsibility.

What is right for you depends on the area of law you can see yourself working in. Trainees in large firms wont handle regular residential conveyances or draft a will. Similarly, I've never been involved in a multi million euro merger or in commercial litigation, for example.

Happy to answer any questions you might have about the process in messages or here, best of luck with the journey!

I am nearly finished the fe1s and would like to work in a criminal firm but wouldn’t mind general practice, just wondering the wage for smaller medium firms while training and if you get nothing while in blackhall ? 6 months without pay ? Thanks in advance.

Fe1student1234

channing90 wrote: »

I am nearly finished the fe1s and would like to work in a criminal firm but wouldn’t mind general practice, just wondering the wage for smaller medium firms while training and if you get nothing while in blackhall ? 6 months without pay ? Thanks in advance.

Depends on the firm tbh but from what I’ve heard wage would be between 21,000 - 28,000

Not sure about getting paid whilst in blackhall I’d say a few smaller ones don’t because you wouldn’t be working but as far as I know they still pay your fees for it or give it back to you when you pass

Dunne1995

channing90 wrote: »

I am nearly finished the fe1s and would like to work in a criminal firm but wouldn’t mind general practice, just wondering the wage for smaller medium firms while training and if you get nothing while in blackhall ? 6 months without pay ? Thanks in advance.

I knew only one person that was unpaid while on ppc1, it's against the law but nobody says anything as training contracts are so difficult to find.

Dont base your decision on wages, unless you are renting in Dublin for your ppc1 or have borrowed to pay the course fees.

At the end of it all, everyone has the same qualification regardless and the pay is better than most other professions after qualification!

IgoPAP

Off-topic, but does anyone know if it reflects badly to cancel a TC because you subsequently was offered another one you want more? How would firms view this?

[Deleted User]

This is a stressful career choice!

IgoPAP

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is a stressful career choice!

But isn't it nice to have some options before you? It's kind of exciting in some ways. I think we'll be okay in the end.

rightytighty

awsah wrote: »

Any tips?

I did a big post on it in the 2019 milkrounds thread. I’ll paste it in in an edit if I can find it.

BemusedKettle
Had two first round interviews, neither of which panned out unfortunately.

oh well! I was wondering if anybody has any insight into how the firms view masters degrees? Do they have any tangible impact on your Big Firm prospects or are they a waste of time?

I have an itching to spend a year abroad and there seems to be some good degree programmes out there

It seems to really be your preference whether you do a masters or not. I haven’t heard of any firms preferring you to have one.

I actually finally secured a contract this time around after four years of applying and so will share my thoughts on the process in case it is of use to anyone. I had interviews with 6 firms which was up from 2 last year and never being called beforehand.

I think most important is to respect how competitive the process is. Firms will give training contracts to people after summer internships following two years of their degree programme so it is in my opinion it is just about the overall strength of your application.

There are loads of initial criteria by which everyone is assessed ie leaving cert, college grades, and personal hobbies/achievements. If you are lacking in some or all of these areas it is best to build yourself up in others. I think what swung it for me was my work experience.

I had just under 500 LC points, a 2.1, and some good work experience pre-graduation but my first and second year grades weren’t great. Anyone with a top end leaving and consistent college grades would have beaten me until I strengthened elsewhere.

I held two full time roles after graduating which gave me plenty to talk about on applications. It allowed me to identify practice areas which interested me and to learn about different firms’ activities in those areas. This is an easy way to show you have researched the firm and to explain why you’re a good fit for them.

If I had any advice it would be not to take any rejection personally and to try and use your self-belief to motivate yourself to persist. If you keep gaining experience and plug away with the FE1s eventually your applications will show dedication and resilience and the interviews will come.

I don’t know if this is even helpful but I remember feeling terribly disheartened and wanting to throw the towel in when I had no success last year. I didn’t even want to apply this year. You owe it to yourself and all you’ve done to date to keep at it so don’t give up!!

Spreece

HU123 wrote: »

Would anyone who sat EU and Tort this week be able to post the topics that came up ..It would be really appreciated!

I did tort. Employers, damages (essay), trespass to the person, contributory negligence (essay), private nuisance, occupiers and causation in one question, nervous shock.

No defamation question but generally fairly straightforward. (I hope!)

CSC1997

This is a bit off topic but I am trying to wrap my head around what Leo Varadkar said today that having more than 6 people in your house will be a civil offence. What exactly does this mean does anybody know? I thought civil offences are taken by individuals who are harmed etc and criminal offences are taken by the state?

IgoPAP

CSC1997 wrote: »

This is a bit off topic but I am trying to wrap my head around what Leo Varadkar said today that having more than 6 people in your house will be a civil offence. What exactly does this mean does anybody know? I thought civil offences are taken by individuals who are harmed etc and criminal offences are taken by the state?

The Irish Times has a good explanation:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/q-a-how-will-the-new-garda-powers-for-pubs-and-restaurants-work-1.4341351

Aoibhin511

IgoPAP wrote: »

The Irish Times has a good explanation:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/q-a-how-will-the-new-garda-powers-for-pubs-and-restaurants-work-1.4341351

The minister of health can sue you for having too many people in your house?
Will the gardaí be given powers to inspect or will they be relying on nosey neighbours ratting people out?

rightytighty

They’re teeing themselves up for disaster imo haha this government is a soap opera

rickmatt

Hi, just wondering has anyone the dates for milkrounds 2020?? Thanks

lawgrad15

rickmatt wrote: »

Hi, just wondering has anyone the dates for milkrounds 2020?? Thanks

Don't think there's much information out there at the moment regarding the milk rounds. Think more info is due in September so fingers crossed firms will still be recruiting.

shaunadennyham

rickmatt wrote: »

Hi, just wondering has anyone the dates for milkrounds 2020?? Thanks

The firms each have their own deadlines for applications. I would suggest you check each of their websites and make a note of the dates yourself. There is no one start and end date.