Tralee thread

Rows Grower wrote: »

The sooner this practice is recognised in law as fraud the better.

It is. It's covered under reckless trading.
Learnt that 35 years ago in business org. In school

ongarboy

Sad to hear about Brookfield. I did leaving cert grinds there in early 90s when they were in Rock St. Definitely helped me get honours on subjects I had failed in 5th year! I see its still the same owner. I remember he was a lovely guy. I'm sure he is as devestated as the kids/parents.

ongarboy wrote: »

Haven't tried it. Twice, we considered it but they had no menu on their window/wall as we were passing by so we hadn't a clue what they served or what price range. You don't want to be seated somewhere and then find it has nothing you like or the prices are out of your budget. Surely an exterior menu display is Restaurant Rule 101?

Contact them on their FB page and suggest it. They may just not ha e thought of it.
It's 2 brothers. One was a chef in the brehon.
Food is superb and not overly priced. Portions are good.

ejmaztec

ongarboy wrote: »

Sad to hear about Brookfield. I did leaving cert grinds there in early 90s when they were in Rock St. Definitely helped me get honours on subjects I had failed in 5th year! I see its still the same owner. I remember he was a lovely guy. I'm sure he is as devestated as the kids/parents.

One of our kids did maths grinds in Rock Street, and had to because her school maths teacher was completely useless. He was so bad, a few others went for grinds as well.

It was ironic that the results achieved in the exams made the crap teacher look good, as the effect of the grinds that a lot of his students had to do didn't get a mention anywhere.

Adiboo

ongarboy wrote: »

Haven't tried it. Twice, we considered it but they had no menu on their window/wall as we were passing by so we hadn't a clue what they served or what price range. You don't want to be seated somewhere and then find it has nothing you like or the prices are out of your budget. Surely an exterior menu display is Restaurant Rule 101?

Exactly the reason we have never gone in either.

We went into 7th Heaven one Saturday afternoon last year. It was empty and we sat just inside the window to be told that regulars come in on a Saturday & usually sit there! No reserved sign on the table, so we said well we won't be long and they said it was ok to sit there! Bit of a strange thing to be greeted with.

We only ordered a toasted sandwich, but I wasn't too impressed with it and they aren't something that you can usually go wrong with. I know they get a lot of good reviews, but I wasn't that impressed to be honest.

Ciarrai76 wrote: »

We went into 7th Heaven one Saturday afternoon last year. It was empty and we sat just inside the window to be told that regulars come in on a Saturday & usually sit there! No reserved sign on the table, so we said well we won't be long and they said it was ok to sit there! Bit of a strange thing to be greeted with.

We only ordered a toasted sandwich, but I wasn't too impressed with it and they aren't something that you can usually go wrong with. I know they get a lot of good reviews, but I wasn't that impressed to be honest.

Did you complain?

Genuinely sad to hear of the demise of Brookfield. I spent 5th and 6th year in their old location in Collis Sands house in the mid 00s. I would not have got the high points I did without their unique teaching methods.

Elijah was a lovely man so I am shocked to hear of deposits being accpeted as recently as two weeks ago.

Update on 7th heaven.
I was in touch with them on their FB page today about the menu. Sad that it's easier to complain about a local business on a forum than to contact them and help the business survive.
They had heard the same from other people and put one in the window last week

Edit: they offered me a free lunch.. See what you missed:D

ongarboy

Lead story on irish Independent now!

'Students have been left high and dry' - shock after sudden closure of fee-paying school in Education Minister's hometown

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/students-have-been-left-high-and-dry-shock-after-sudden-closure-of-fee-paying-school-in-education-ministers-hometown-39485911.html

Traleelad

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Update on 7th heaven.
I was in touch with them on their FB page today about the menu. Sad that it's easier to complain about a local business on a forum than to contact them and help the business survive.
They had heard the same from other people and put one in the window last week

Edit: they offered me a free lunch.. See what you missed:D

Not sure if anyone was complaining per se, that’s not how I was reading it anyway. The few posters that were commenting were just sharing their experiences following a query about the business from another poster???

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Did you complain?

No, I just don't think I'll go back there. I prefer other places. The Glasshouse is great, top notch sandwiches and a great brunch menu on Saturdays.

Traleelad wrote: »

Not sure if anyone was complaining per se, that’s not how I was reading it anyway. The few posters that were commenting were just sharing their experiences following a query about the business from another poster???

Exactly!

Hennessy bar are reopening next week. Doing food according to their Facebook page.

Ciarrai76 wrote: »

Hennessy bar are reopening next week. Doing food according to their Facebook page.

Pubs are starting more and more to chance their arms.
Guaranteed that outside food collaborations will be banned next week.
I passed An Cearnog in the square today a few times, didn’t see a plate of food once and no social distancing. How on earth are they getting away with it.

Darc19

Forge83 wrote: »

While a business going bust is always terrible, the clear deception by them is not acceptable. If I was one of those parents I’d be calling to their front door looking for my money.
I’d bet they looked after themselves before liquidating. Would also be interested to know if they drew down business restart grants etc which require a business to reopen.
Lastly, how does a business that long around not have the cash reserves to survive one year. I’d imagine fees there were never cheap.

Amazing how people jump to conclusions.

Amazing how people who have zero business experience suddenly know how to run one.

Thankfully my business is strong and has thrived recently, but I've many friends who have had a torrential time.

Cash reserves are fine for a temporary slow down, but when your business grinds to a halt, you don't have the cash reserves.

You naturally will try and trade out of it. You hope that a new season will allow you turn a corner.

My guess in this case is that the numbers for the coming year simply did not meet expectations.

It's the same in high fashion as there are no events, it's the same with many restaurants and pubs, though the home tourist season has helped.

Kerry is full of tourist businesses, will all of those attacking this business attack all the other businesses that may close in the coming months and show the same lack of basic knowledge?

Seems these guys were in business for many many years. Hardly a fly by night operator.

Just saw that they mostly took payment online via cards. Chargeback means that anyone who paid by Visa or mastercard (debit or credit) simply do a chargeback.

So unless you paid by cash (unlikely) or cheque (unlikely) or bank transfer, you will have zero financial loss

Traleelad

Darc19 wrote: »

Amazing how people jump to conclusions.

Amazing how people who have zero business experience suddenly know how to run one.

Thankfully my business is strong and has thrived recently, but I've many friends who have had a torrential time.

Cash reserves are fine for a temporary slow down, but when your business grinds to a halt, you don't have the cash reserves.

You naturally will try and trade out of it. You hope that a new season will allow you turn a corner.

My guess in this case is that the numbers for the coming year simply did not meet expectations.

It's the same in high fashion as there are no events, it's the same with many restaurants and pubs, though the home tourist season has helped.

Kerry is full of tourist businesses, will all of those attacking this business attack all the other businesses that may close in the coming months and show the same lack of basic knowledge?

Seems these guys were in business for many many years. Hardly a fly by night operator.

I think most people would get over the fact that they closed. While not ideal for kids and families that now don’t have a place for their kids it unfortunately is a fact of life that business close.

The issue I’m gathering from most people via social media is the fact that they took large deposits up to and including €3000 as late as last week.

This in my opinion is down right theft.

They knew whilst taking money from people and families that they would be entering liquidation which is completely unacceptable.

There is a clear difference here between this type of business ie a private school and any tourism or Covid 19 related closures.

Darc19

Traleelad wrote: »

I think most people would get over the fact that they closed. While not ideal for kids and families that now don’t have a place for their kids it unfortunately is a fact of life that business close.

The issue I’m gathering from most people via social media is the fact that they took large deposits up to and including €3000 as late as last week.

This in my opinion is down right theft.

They knew whilst taking money from people and families that they would be entering liquidation which is completely unacceptable.

There is a clear difference here between this type of business ie a private school and any tourism or Covid 19 related closures.

If you can prove that, then produce that to the liquidator.

Seems they operated for 32 years.

It's not exactly a massive money machine. I know one grind school in Dublin and the owners were never splurging money.

And if you read my post, all credit and debit card payments are covered under chargeback.

My guess is they tried to see if things would look up, took bookings, saw that the figures were never going to add up and once that was seen, decided to call in the liquidators.

BTW, if you are really interested, you could read the liquidation report in about 12 months. I assure you, liquidators are not afraid of saying if anything untoward has gone on

One final point. I wish people would stop believing every piece of sh1te on social media. You'll find 90% is bullsh1t

Ciarrai76 wrote: »

No, I just don't think I'll go back there. I prefer other places. The Glasshouse is great, top notch sandwiches and a great brunch menu on Saturdays.

In my view it can't have been so bad that you didn't complain.
I'm sorry but I've little time for people who'll bad mouth someone behind a veil of anonymity and won't say it to their face.

You're not being fair on them by not giving them a chance to fix the problem.

ongarboy

Forge83 wrote: »

Pubs are starting more and more to chance their arms.
Guaranteed that outside food collaborations will be banned next week.
I passed An Cearnog in the square today a few times, didn’t see a plate of food once and no social distancing. How on earth are they getting away with it.

Well, if Kerry's elected TD can open his wet pub if someone orders a bag of chips from across the road, sure why wouldn't anyone else do it? I'm not knocking it. I think as long as pubs, wet or gastro ensure HSE guidelines are adhered to, then let them open. The issue then is... are the guidelines being strictly adhered to?

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5835208/coronavirus-in-ireland-danny-healy-rae-opens-pub-kerry/

Darc19 wrote: »

Amazing how people jump to conclusions.

Amazing how people who have zero business experience suddenly know how to run one.

Thankfully my business is strong and has thrived recently, but I've many friends who have had a torrential time.

Cash reserves are fine for a temporary slow down, but when your business grinds to a halt, you don't have the cash reserves.

You naturally will try and trade out of it. You hope that a new season will allow you turn a corner.

My guess in this case is that the numbers for the coming year simply did not meet expectations.

It's the same in high fashion as there are no events, it's the same with many restaurants and pubs, though the home tourist season has helped.

Kerry is full of tourist businesses, will all of those attacking this business attack all the other businesses that may close in the coming months and show the same lack of basic knowledge?

Seems these guys were in business for many many years. Hardly a fly by night operator.

Just saw that they mostly took payment online via cards. Chargeback means that anyone who paid by Visa or mastercard (debit or credit) simply do a chargeback.

So unless you paid by cash (unlikely) or cheque (unlikely) or bank transfer, you will have zero financial loss

I have 8 years business experience thanks. My knowledge of business operation, liquidation, receiverships etc isn’t bad. Currently own 2 successful businesses with a 3rd opening in October. Both ground to a halt like everyone else’s.

My issue is with the obvious deception. Parents would have had kids enrolled before August so they knew their numbers weren’t viable before they took deposits two weeks ago. They would have my full sympathy otherwise as running any business is stressful at the best of times.

Traleelad wrote: »

I think most people would get over the fact that they closed. While not ideal for kids and families that now don’t have a place for their kids it unfortunately is a fact of life that business close.

The issue I’m gathering from most people via social media is the fact that they took large deposits up to and including €3000 as late as last week.

This in my opinion is down right theft.

They knew whilst taking money from people and families that they would be entering liquidation which is completely unacceptable.

There is a clear difference here between this type of business ie a private school and any tourism or Covid 19 related closures.

Spot on.

ongarboy wrote: »

Well, if Kerry's elected TD can open his wet pub if someone orders a bag of chips from across the road, sure why wouldn't anyone else do it? I'm not knocking it. I think as long as pubs, wet or gastro ensure HSE guidelines are adhered to, then let them open. The issue then is... are the guidelines being strictly adhered to?

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5835208/coronavirus-in-ireland-danny-healy-rae-opens-pub-kerry/

Yes it’s a disgrace. As I said surely it will be stopped as everyone going to start doing it in the coming week.

While I agree, they simply can’t open the pubs as they cannot police/monitor their adherence to the guidelines. The man power just isn’t there. Every pub that serves food in my locality is allowing customers to stay and drink for as long as they want after they eat. They have to, they wouldn’t make a profit otherwise.

SouthWesterly wrote: »

In my view it can't have been so bad that you didn't complain.
I'm sorry but I've little time for people who'll bad mouth someone behind a veil of anonymity and won't say it to their face.

You're not being fair on them by not giving them a chance to fix the problem.

Its like anywhere, if you don't really like it you don't go back! No one is obliged to give anywhere a chance if they didn't enjoy it. And I'm not bad mouthing them. I'm giving my opinion on a place! I didn't really think it was amazing, so I didn't go back. Not sure how that's bad mouthing a place? You don't go and complain in every place you eat or drink if you don't like something??

phormium

On the Brookfield thing I'm sure Covid must have had an impact on their ability to ensure sufficient numbers for the coming year too, I presume they could not have had the usual classroom density as pre Covid so unless they were able to secure more space which again would come at a cost I imagine then it limited their income going forward.

If as mentioned above all those deposits paid by card are refundable then at least that is something for those caught out!

Who knows the real reason it went down to the wire, maybe many parents who had initially looked for places were unable to go ahead due to their own income drops with Covid or maybe the banks pulled the plug, who knows but themselves at this stage! I doubt any business trading for that long does this without trying every option possible but we are living in a strange world right now and many incomes and livelihoods have been affected, far more I think than the obvious pubs etc!

Darc19

Forge83 wrote: »

I have 8 years business experience thanks. My knowledge of business operation, liquidation, receiverships etc isn’t bad. Currently own 2 successful businesses with a 3rd opening in October. Both ground to a halt like everyone else’s.

My issue is with the obvious deception. Parents would have had kids enrolled before August so they knew their numbers weren’t viable before they took deposits two weeks ago. They would have my full sympathy otherwise as running any business is stressful at the best of times.

8 years. That's very little. I'm 35 years in business roles as owner, director and senior management.
I've worked in companies that went into liquidation in the early 90's another that folded in 2007.

New Look went into administration yesterday. They were selling gift cards up to Thursday.

Reading today's reports on Brookfield it seems they tried their best to recruit for this year and when it became obvious last week that the numbers were not adding up and recruitment had stopped, they called in liquidators.

That's how it works.

If they are found to have "enriched" themselves or traded while knowing that they were going to be insolvent, that carries heavy penalties and the odce takes such issues very seriously.

But as a 8 years business person you would know that.

Darc19 wrote: »

8 years. That's very little. I'm 35 years in business roles as owner, director and senior management.
I've worked in companies that went into liquidation in the early 90's another that folded in 2007.

New Look went into administration yesterday. They were selling gift cards up to Thursday.

Reading today's reports on Brookfield it seems they tried their best to recruit for this year and when it became obvious last week that the numbers were not adding up and recruitment had stopped, they called in liquidators.

That's how it works.

If they are found to have "enriched" themselves or traded while knowing that they were going to be insolvent, that carries heavy penalties and the odce takes such issues very seriously.

But as a 8 years business person you would know that.

How can I have 35 years experience when I’m in my early 30s.Unfortunately they wouldn’t allow me to start a business while I was in my mothers womb.
Sure Michael McCarthy in the square was in business 42 years which means he knows more than you. Oh wait, he’s also gone bust owing loads of money because of his 42 years experience.
Now move along and argue the post, not the poster. You are coming across as arrogant.

Back to the post. Did New Look know how many customers they were going to have for the next year and decide to sell gift cards for a few weeks and then enter liquidation,No. They tried to trade out of it until they couldn’t. A lot of these large retail chains often use it to renegotiate leases and make lower payment agreements with their creditors also.

On your last point, how often is anyone prosecuted for this? I’ve never heard of a case no mind a successful one.

As for Brookfield, I’ve made my point re obvious deception as have others. I’ll leave it at that.

Traleelad

Darc19 wrote: »

8 years. That's very little. I'm 35 years in business roles as owner, director and senior management.
I've worked in companies that went into liquidation in the early 90's another that folded in 2007.

New Look went into administration yesterday. They were selling gift cards up to Thursday.

Reading today's reports on Brookfield it seems they tried their best to recruit for this year and when it became obvious last week that the numbers were not adding up and recruitment had stopped, they called in liquidators.

That's how it works.

If they are found to have "enriched" themselves or traded while knowing that they were going to be insolvent, that carries heavy penalties and the odce takes such issues very seriously.

But as a 8 years business person you would know that.

Length of time in business or knowledge has nothing to do with this.

Plenty high profile and experienced businesses and business people go bust.

The issue here is that in a private school is far easier to see a situation where you cannot “trade out” of trouble.

If they didn’t have substantially enough pupils in July to cover themselves well then they shouldn’t have still accepted money from families in late August.

This wasn’t a case where one or two additional pupils were going to push it over the line late in the game.

This is nothing to do with business this is common decency in a very troubling time.

Traleelad wrote: »

Length of time in business or knowledge has nothing to do with this.

Plenty high profile and experienced businesses and business people go bust.

The issue here is that in a private school is far easier to see a situation where you cannot “trade out” of trouble.

If they didn’t have substantially enough pupils in July to cover themselves well then they shouldn’t have still accepted money from families in late August.

This wasn’t a case where one or two additional pupils were going to push it over the line late in the game.

This is nothing to do with business this is common decency in a very troubling time.

Exactly the point I am trying to make.