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PHIL HOGAN NEEDS TO RESIGN.

Mrcaramelchoc

I for one want him gone.

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mick087

ec18 wrote: »

Citizens gave them power based on lies and misinformation. Is that really a fair election then?

you want to elect judges?

Would not accept that there are some posts that require a skill set and competencies that is outside the popularity context of an election?

IYO they was based on lies

IMO both sides lied both sides had good points both sides had bad sides. The Citizens voted and because you or me did not like the result does not mean it was wrong or all the people believed the lies.

I would certanley look into having a discussion over electing judges yes.

Yes i would except some issues maybe ie bringing back the death penalty.

But leading figures should be accountable to its citizens.

fly_agaric

caveat emptor wrote: »

You would say it's entirely different. Let's see what's similar.
They both broke covid restrictions.

They both scrambled for loopholes in the restrictions.

They both issued public apologies

They both subsequently got caught in their lies.

The both embarrassed their government

They are both crucial in drafting legislation (EU for Phil, UK for DC)

They both gave people an excuse to flout the regulations.

They both put weight behind the mantra of one rule for us, one for you.

No, I would say it is not exactly the same. Not that it is "entirely different".
I try not to play too many word games.

On point 2 - for both people I think at the worst they just didn't really care enough or consider their actions properly + how they would appear rather than were actively trying to find loopholes for themselves. Don't really get all the emotive raging about politicians/political figures (if we can also class Cummings as one), or characterising them as uniquely malevolent that seems to be so popular at the moment + has lit up this thread.

On point 6 - EU Commisioners have had no input into Ireland Coronavirus restrictions or govt. regulations (such as they are!) around it. Public health is not really an EU competency as we saw with some of the disorder & disagreements between member states during this pandemic.

edit: others I'd largely agree with.

RandomViewer

Hayes + were apparently representatives of Promontoria/Cerberus, surely he's toast at this stage,

is_that_so

smurgen wrote: »

From the horse's mouth , this is unbelievable.

https://twitter.com/paddycosgrave/status/1298537457621913600?s=19

Really? Paddy Cosgrave? Isn't there someone else with a bit more class about them to offer opinions on this?

is_that_so

Ta ceist agam wrote: »

WOW! DID NOT EXPECT THIS!!

It's a spoof! Nicely done but he's still there!

mick087

First Up wrote: »

I see you haven't yet bothered to learn about how representative democracy works.

You really should; all sorts of things will suddenly start to make sense.

Again you mean refuse to do the nodding dog routine to your opinion.
Democracy for citizens really terrifies you. But what i don't understand is why?

Allowing Citizens to vote for its Commissioners will allow for a more democratic accountable EU.

Jizique

mick087 wrote: »

Again you mean refuse to do the nodding dog routine to your opinion.
Democracy for citizens really terrifies you. But what i don't understand is why?

Allowing Citizens to vote for its Commissioners will allow for a more democratic accountable EU.

Will your vote be organized on a pan-Euro basis or on a national basis?

is_that_so

mick087 wrote: »

Again you mean refuse to do the nodding dog routine to your opinion.
Democracy for citizens really terrifies you. But what i don't understand is why?

Allowing Citizens to vote for its Commissioners will allow for a more democratic accountable EU.

We vote for the EP who vote for the Commissioners. Here we vote for TDs who choose a Taoiseach. The only position we vote for directly is President.

Jizique

mick087 wrote: »

Again you mean refuse to do the nodding dog routine to your opinion.
Democracy for citizens really terrifies you. But what i don't understand is why?

Allowing Citizens to vote for its Commissioners will allow for a more democratic accountable EU.

Should we vote for ministers as well? Or is it the role of the elected sovereign (to use a word beloved of our English neighbors) Irish parliament to approve the appointments of the Taoiseach?
Should we have a public vote for Taoiseach?

mick087

golfball37 wrote: »

That’s what debate has been reduced to sadly in Ireland. Any anti EU sentiment sees you reduced to a level they can look down on.

Yes it does seem that way that's for sure.

Sneer comments arrogance trying to telling you to go away trying find a political party to associate you with to run you down.

I think many would be happy if this was called you must agree boards ie

Jizique

mick087 wrote: »

Yes it does seem that way that's for sure.

Sneer comments arrogance trying to telling you to go away trying find a political party to associate you with to run you down.

I think many would be happy if this was called you must agree boards ie

At least 90% of commentators on this thread have the pitchfork sharpened

jm08

caveat emptor wrote: »

He was talking about removing Pharma tariffs for US companies importing to EU. That would mean a lot of US Pharma companies could move production back to US. There's one reason we might want him gone.

I'm not sure why he mentioned Pharma as there is already a WTO agreement where tariffs on 7,000 pharma are eliminated. The US & EU are signed up to this WTO agreement (unless the fact that the US is withdrawing from WTO).

Tariffs are not usually the main issue. Its regulatory approval by the EU that makes it more difficult.

Mercosur, there's another.

Hogan wasn't the EU Trade Commissioner for that. He inherited it. It might have been a bit kinder to farming interests if he was the Trade Commissioner then. Anyway, its not going to come into being as Brazil is not abiding by the Paris Climate Agreement which was a requirement.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/commissioners/2019-2024/hogan/announcements/extracts-commissioner-phil-hogans-remarks-european-american-chamber-commerce-event-transatlantic_en[/QUOTE]

Ta ceist agam

Big Phil was on 335k 6 years ago and will have a pension for life of 53k.

Can we really say he's doing this all for the good of Ireland??

https://www.thejournal.ie/phil-hogan-salary-eu-commissioner-1665311-Sep2014/

jm08

is_that_so wrote: »

It's a spoof! Nicely done but he's still there!

They have the date as Thur. 28 Aug 2020 when in fact it will be Thur. 27th.
Poor attention to detail!

stockshares

jm08 wrote: »

I'm not sure why he mentioned Pharma as there is already a WTO agreement where tariffs on 7,000 pharma are eliminated. The US & EU are signed up to this WTO agreement (unless the fact that the US is withdrawing from WTO).

Tariffs are not usually the main issue. Its regulatory approval by the EU that makes it more difficult.

Hogan wasn't the EU Trade Commissioner for that. He inherited it. It might have been a bit kinder to farming interests if he was the Trade Commissioner then. Anyway, its not going to come into being as Brazil is not abiding by the Paris Climate Agreement which was a requirement.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/commissioners/2019-2024/hogan/announcements/extracts-commissioner-phil-hogans-remarks-european-american-chamber-commerce-event-transatlantic_en

[/QUOTE]

I don't think they will let trees get in the way.

mick087

jm08 wrote: »

So basically you are against everything and for nothing.
Have you yet told us how the EU Commission should be formed?

Yes i have suggested this many times for a way the citizens could be elect a Commissioner.
A elected MEP could stand for election as commissioner
Maybe each state have n election to decide who will be that states EU commissioner.

Edgware

Allinall wrote: »

I heard he got it off the council, and only pays €30 a week in rent.

I heard that Margaret Cash owns it

ec18

mick087 wrote: »

Yes i have suggested this many times for a way the citizens could be elect a Commissioner.
A elected MEP could stand for election as commissioner
Maybe each state have n election to decide who will be that states EU commissioner.

I don't see the point of this.

You don't have a problem with ministers being appointed by the government, but you have a problem with the government nominating a commissioner that is approved by the European parliament and serves a fixed term where they are either renominated by a national government or a new commissioner is proposed.

It's not like he's in a job for life.

jm08

I don't think they will let trees get in the way.

It has to be ratified by all 27 EU members. So far, Austria has refused to ratify it and both Merkel and Macron have both said its looks like its dead.

https://www.oliveoiltimes.com/business/german-chancellor-casts-doubt-over-landmark-e-u-mercosur-trade-deal/85107

Psychiatric Patrick

jm08 wrote: »

They have the date as Thur. 28 Aug 2020 when in fact it will be Thur. 27th.
Poor attention to detail!

No one is perfect.

Still well made and still funny

mick087

Jizique wrote: »

Will your vote be organized on a pan-Euro basis or on a national basis?

I would see what the candidate had to say research them and then decide.

jm08

mick087 wrote: »

Yes i have suggested this many times for a way the citizens could be elect a Commissioner.
A elected MEP could stand for election as commissioner
Maybe each state have n election to decide who will be that states EU commissioner.

Most MEPs don't have the experience of ministerial experience*. I think Frances Fitzgerald would be the only eligible MEP at the moment as she was a cabinet minister.

*Martin Weber who was the European Parliaments selection as Commission President was rejected by the Council of Ministers because he had no experience of being a Government Minister.

mick087

ec18 wrote: »

I don't see the point of this.

You don't have a problem with ministers being appointed by the government, but you have a problem with the government nominating a commissioner that is approved by the European parliament and serves a fixed term where they are either renominated by a national government or a new commissioner is proposed.

It's not like he's in a job for life.

A Minister is first elected to goverment by its citizens they then get a position as a minister.
Being a minister makes you even more accountable than being just a TD

A commissioner is selected never elected by its citizens.

mick087

is_that_so wrote: »

We vote for the EP who vote for the Commissioners. Here we vote for TDs who choose a Taoiseach. The only position we vote for directly is President.

Our Taoiseach is elected by its citizens as a member of goverment.
The commission and the President are selected and never elected by its citizens.

Happydays2020

caveat emptor wrote: »

So would it be ethical to take a court case having been relieved of his position based on an ethical issue? Not even your wan who fell off a swing did that. Is there no honour among politicians these days?

The Maltese guy who was forced to resign tried to challenge it through the courts. He is an employee on a fixed term contract so he does have rights. And it could be the case where a Commission President abuses a position....

Happydays2020

mick087 wrote: »

Our Taoiseach is elected by its citizens as a member of goverment.
The commission and the President are selected and never elected by its citizens.

Our Taoiseach is not elected by the people. He is nominated and elected by the Parliament who are elected by the people.

Micheal Martin received around 11000 votes. The electorate is 3.5 million.

RandomViewer

jm08 wrote: »

Most MEPs don't have the experience of ministerial experience*. I think Frances Fitzgerald would be the only eligible MEP at the moment as she was a cabinet minister.

*Martin Weber who was the European Parliaments selection as Commission President was rejected by the Council of Ministers because he had no experience of being a Government Minister.

It will be an FF appointee , still one head down if Hogan goes

ec18

mick087 wrote: »

A Minister is first elected to goverment by its citizens they then get a position as a minister.
Being a minister makes you even more accountable than being just a TD

A commissioner is selected never elected by its citizens.

but like the attorney general, government advisers they are appointed by the government that the people elected. Philo was a TD before being nominated at as a commissioner.

RandomViewer

Edgware wrote: »

I heard that Margaret Cash owns it

It's a timeshare, her ,Hogan and 15 lads from the meat factory were staying there, they sublet the hot press to Woulfe when he was partying with the Cerberus reps, Hayes slept in the dog basket

jm08

RandomViewer wrote: »

It will be an FF appointee , still one head down if Hogan goes

It would have to be someone from the present Government as there are very few FFers now with ministerial experience as they have been out of power for about 10 years now.