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What's the best way to turn a laddish guy into a middle class man?

its_steve116

Was listening to this song last week. It's about a laddish, working class guy who suddenly develops a love of things that are middle-class and unladdish. He is also a more open minded person, who doesn't mind the fact that people are gay and who doesn't read the Star any more because he "prefer(s) a boring article to a bird in pants and bra".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnuepN9EvTw
What I wanna know is... how would you transform a laddish guy into someone more sophisticated?

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IAMAMORON

Seamai wrote: »

What about "active wear"? Seems to have become the go to uniform for a large chunk of the population.

You might get away with sailing or hiking gear, even a golf jumper. But this only makes you middle classless rather than middle class, you get a pass if you are on your way or coming home from your preferred pastime or activity. Rugby jerseys also, big no no. I always giggle at working class types shouting at Lansdowne road, wearing a Leinster or Ireland jersey. OMG. Middle class types might wear their club or university scarf to a match, but jerseys are for peasants and knackers, even I know that.

Proper middle class dress properly. A nice well fitting suit to work. Drive responsibly. Eat well and party hard, when necessary. If you are dressing casually dress casually, but sports gear is a definite faux pas, unless you are actively participating.

It reminds of lefties like Richard Boyd Barrett, Paul Murphy or Eoin Ó'Broin. You can take the man from the posh south Dublin housing estate but you can't take the posh south Dublin housing estate out of the man. All these guys are quintessential middle class and dress appropriately. Kites in a whirlwind all things said.

IAMAMORON

Deleted User wrote: »

It depends on the runners and the situation.. I'm about to go for bias in jeans, a shirt, and my Tigers. No way I'm putting on shoes to meet the lads.

Watch out long term for ailments such as athletes foot. Your middle class pals ( the real ones ) are also sniggering at you btw. Get some nice comfy shoes and put them on.

Women won't go for you either. Not if you are wearing runners. Smelly feet etc, they don't like that unless they are too drunk to notice.

Yyhhuuu

In my experience many middle class people hate working class people especially in Dublin where there is a huge class divide. Ironically in Dublin the working class can be far nicer people than the stuck up perceived middle or upper middle class, many of whom come from a thatched cottage if you trace far back enough. I myself come from a long line of medics going back generations. I find some working class people like those in shops or security can be very petty minded and vindictive, just plain mean and the higher the pay scale the more 'polished' people become. However, I can't stand social climbers who often have ostentatious displays of wealth to cover up their insecurities. Is class nowadays defined exclusively by your profession or is it also defined by ones net wealth.

IAMAMORON

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

In my experience many middle class people hate working class people especially in Dublin where there is a huge class divide. Ironically in Dublin the working class can be far nicer people than the perceived stuck up middle or upper middle class, many of whom come from a thatched cottage if you trace far back enough. I myself come from a long line of medics going back generations. I find some working class people like those in shops or security can be very petty minded and vindictive, just plain mean and the higher the pay scale the more 'polished' people become. However, I can't stand social climbers who often have ostentatious displays of wealth to cover up their insecurities. Is class nowadays defined exclusively by your profession or is it also defined by ones net wealth.

What is bred in the marrow comes out in the bone. The apple rarely falls far from the tree.

I think you need to spend at least 3 to 4 generations at a profession before you can really declare yourself properly middle class. There is too much opportunity around and an awful lot of imposters.

Primary school teaching is not a profession btw. Unless you are a principal. Correcting kids' copybooks does not make you middle class, at all. Unless your dad owns a boozer, exceptions can be made.

Greta_Funberg

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't know we had classes in Ireland.

I think that's very naiive. Sure it's not the same as the UK but thinking back on our class in school. There were certain kids, from certain areas who would go on foreign holidays (not Spain booze ups, but actual "cultural" ones!), would have grinds by default, parent's tended to socialise/know each other, attended speech-and-drama/dance/etc classes on weekends. Then there were those of us, from whom any of those was about as likely to happen as getting top of the range Nike Air Max. Which is to say, zero.

Easy credit and lower cost stuff like flights nowadays, might mask that to some degree but it's still there.

IAMAMORON

Greta_Funberg wrote: »

I think that's very naiive. Sure it's not the same as the UK but thinking back on our class in school. There were certain kids, from certain areas who would go on foreign holidays (not Spain booze ups, but actual "cultural" ones!), would have grinds by default, parent's tended to socialise/know each other, attended speech-and-drama/dance/etc classes on weekends. Then there were those of us, from whom any of those was about as likely to happen as getting top of the range Nike Air Max. Which is to say, zero.

Easy credit and lower cost stuff like flights nowadays, might mask that to some degree but it's still there.

Greta, I find it intriguing that you have mentioned such maternal habits and child pruning. This is actually textbook social climbing behaviour. Most working class types infatuated with getting ahead will insist on sending their children to elocution lessons and other such social improvement techniques.

Scouts, drama class and/or dancing class. These are essential areas for the middle classes to nod condescendingly from the sidelines at each other. Textbook child pruning and is borderline nouveu riche, be careful here if you are acting out. Real middle class will sniff you out and you will become a pariah very quickly, they hate triers and climbers.

If you do insist on manipulating your children at least be honest with their middle class friends parents about what you are up to. The penalty for not doing so is the unending back chat and underhanded bitching and sniggering which only genuine middle class are capable of, they invented it btw. Thread carefully Greta.

My best advice to social climbers is to play long ball and try to associate with other social climbing types. They are easy to spot. Watch out for children who swear to much and dads in big aggressive immaculately washed sports cars, pure trash and easily spotted. Parents will always discuss money and enquire about your career etc. Real middle class know that such conversations are a drag.

topper75

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

When a poor working class man from Galway who could only speak Irish, his name was Maolra Seoighe was wrongly (known) convicted of murder & hanged in 1882 & was pardoned by president Higgins in 2018.
During the trial a London based paper published this very un-biased & not at all bigoted article on class.

"The Tragedy at Maamtrasna, investigated this week in Dublin, almost unique as it is in the annals of the United Kingdom, brings out in strong relief two facts which Englishmen are too apt to forget. One is the existence in particular districts of Ireland of a class of peasants who are scarcely civilised beings, and approach far nearer to savages than any other white men; and the other is their extraordinary and exceptional gloominess of temper. In remote places of Ireland, especially in Connaught, on a few of the islands, and in one or two mountain districts, dwell cultivators who are in knowledge, in habits, and in the discipline of life no higher than Maories or other Polynesians." http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/18th-november-1882/7/the-tragedy-at-maamtrasna

This was during the time of the rise of the Home Rule movement & the IPP, over 130 years ago. Unfortunately lots of people still hold these views of poor working class people.

Peasant? The fools, the fools, the fools. Did they not realise that with a name like Maolra that he was in fact a posh south Dublin gaelscoil kid?!

Pawwed Rig

Zaph wrote: »

Or f*ckin' brutal

The middleclass mask slips :pac:

BillyBiggs

its_steve116 wrote: »

Was listening to this song last week. It's about a laddish, working class guy who suddenly develops a love of things that are middle-class and unladdish. He is also a more open minded person, who doesn't mind the fact that people are gay and who doesn't read the Star any more because he "prefer(s) a boring article to a bird in pants and bra".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnuepN9EvTw
What I wanna know is... how would you transform a laddish guy into someone more sophisticated?

Get him to go out with a girl from a higher social class, who has airs and graces about herself and whose parents will judge him severely. That’s the best way to get him to change his ways.:-)

Errashareesh

Being serious though, so much missing the point as to what middle-class means. Numerous mentions of buying more expensive stuff. Could easily be said about some working class folk.

And shunning flashness and living modestly can be ultra middle-class.

By its very nature - being in the middle - it encompasses all kinds. The rugby heads and the bohemian types living in squalor while attending NCAD. Or neither of those. And the notion that middleclass people would only vote FG and are right of centre? Lol. Middleclass liberals are one of the most parodied groups there could be.

I'm middle-class and cannot bear pretentiousness. Putting on a posh accent - gtfo. No interest in expensive cars, clothes, gadgets, jewellery, accessories etc. Big houses are pointless unless you've a massive family.

Where I meet the stereotype all right though is food and wine. Not that I wouldn't enjoy a bag of chips (I absolutely do) but I do love good restaurants and fancy wine.

nthclare

Errashareesh wrote: »

Being serious though, so much missing the point as to what middle-class means. Numerous mentions of buying more expensive stuff. Could easily be said about some working class folk.

And shunning flashness and living modestly can be ultra middle-class.

By its very nature - being in the middle - it encompasses all kinds. The rugby heads and the bohemian types living in squalor while attending NCAD. Or neither of those. And the notion that middleclass people would only vote FG and are right of centre? Lol. Middleclass liberals are one of the most parodied groups there could be.

I'm middle-class and cannot bear pretentiousness. Putting on a posh accent - gtfo. No interest in expensive cars, clothes, gadgets, jewellery, accessories etc. Big houses are pointless unless you've a massive family.

Where I meet the stereotype all right though is food and wine. Not that I wouldn't enjoy a bag of chips (I absolutely do) but I do love good restaurants and fancy wine.

You hit the head on the nail there.

And class isn't about what you own or the toy's and threads you have at your exposal.

Being cool and classy,has nothing to do with your look or luck for that matter.

Just humility and being able to adapt to any situation at anytime.

As a woman I knew once said, it's the man that makes the clothes and not the clothes that maket the man... this anology can be used in different ways...

Most famous people who are admirable, don't have a flashy lifestyle.

Living in the Burren there's a few cluster's of famous actors and musicians and they mix with us through walking groups and hobbies etc

You'll have the usual Dick's asking how come you were having coffee with so and so in Kinvara on a Saturday morning, how do you know them ???

It's not a business transaction that's for sure.

IK09

CertifiedSimp wrote: »

Beige chinos.

Was going to try and fight this but im middle class and own multiple pairs of beige chinos.

And im wearing a pair right now

jimgoose

Received pronunciation, dear fellow. Trips to theatre, as opposed to theater. Faded grandeur and Wintering abroad. E-Class Mercs for the golf clubs and Volvo XC60s for the woman, and cookery classes in Ballymaloe and the Feng Shui and turning your nose up at Ikea - the Wonderful, every day! - and don't forget the tennis club. Oh and, hoors. Big bony hoors, and plenty of 'em. That lot'll knock the tin of Stella and the Celtic jersey off of the best of 'em.

[Deleted User]

What makes a person middle class or not these days?
Income, attitude, career, address, pcp?

Working class heroes

Why would you want too....

Errashareesh

Deleted User wrote: »

What makes a person middle class or not these days?
Income, attitude, career, address, pcp?

Nothing specific at all. As I said, by its nature, middleclass means all kinds.

There is this fashionable, prejudicial notion of what it means but it's a vast chasm realistically.

pgj2015

I come across people from all corners of Ireland and the world while working, people from all a classes. The working class Dubs are 99% of the time absolute gentlemen and ladies, very generous, easy to talk to and good craic. The upper middle class are usually ok but some of the middle class are a serious pain in the arse, they really try to put people down and try to show their imagined superiority over people they feel are below them. The worst thing about them is they are really boring, blabbing on about their boring lives, culchies who pretend to love rugby are the worst.

A middle class social climber would rather earn 20,000 per year as a solicitor than 100,000 a year as a bin man. They are idiots.

Yyhhuuu

jimgoose wrote: »

Received pronunciation, dear fellow. Trips to theatre, as opposed to theater. Faded grandeur and Wintering abroad. E-Class Mercs for the golf clubs and Volvo XC60s for the woman, and cookery classes in Ballymaloe and the Feng Shui and turning your nose up at Ikea - the Wonderful, every day! - and don't forget the tennis club. Oh and, hoors. Big bony hoors, and plenty of 'em. That lot'll knock the tin of Stella and the Celtic jersey off of the best of 'em.

Some of that sounds upper class to me. My ancestors came from a landed Estate. Many of them were academics and professionals when Ireland was incredibly impoverished during the establishment of the Irish free state and some were key players.

I just dislipise some so called professionals be it solicitors or Medics etc I came across often conceited with fake accents who consider themselves the elite of Ireland I came across many and I just know that if one goes back far enough they originated in a thatched cottage. I value people who are down to earth irrespective of status.

I never needed to ostentatiously display my wealth and consider myself comfortable but frugal. My family were the same.

Feisar

IAMAMORON wrote: »

What is bred in the marrow comes out in the bone. The apple rarely falls far from the tree.

I think you need to spend at least 3 to 4 generations at a profession before you can really declare yourself properly middle class. There is too much opportunity around and an awful lot of imposters.

Primary school teaching is not a profession btw. Unless you are a principal. Correcting kids' copybooks does not make you middle class, at all. Unless your dad owns a boozer, exceptions can be made.

There is something to this. I'd be middle class, however you can tell I'm 1st gen. I just don't have that cut about me.

[Deleted User]

on public transport like bus or train nobody else gives a sh|t about you regaling the quality of your physio session after the match.
other passengers on the train don't care about you going on to your college mates about where you'll find a job for Christmas holidays from college
you might feel cool yourself with that can if Dutch gold in front of you but it's definitely most in middle class
the highlight of your week is not the nightclub or chicks on the side
throw out that games console.

IAMAMORON

Feisar wrote: »

There is something to this. I'd be middle class, however you can tell I'm 1st gen. I just don't have that cut about me.

Don't sweat it Feisballs, I feel your worry and pain.

My best advice is to not go overboard on expensive wines and whiskeys. Very uncouth.

Dress smart and be polite. Think of your grandkids.

IAMAMORON

Deleted User wrote: »

on public transport like bus or train nobody else gives a sh|t about you regaling the quality of your physio session after the match.

other passengers on the train don't care about you going on to your college mates about where you'll find a job for Christmas holidays from college

you might feel cool yourself with that can if Dutch gold in front of you but it's definitely most in middle class

the highlight of your week is not the nightclub or chicks on the side

throw out that games console.

Middle class don't use public transport after their student days. They might get the bus to school or college to ensure they are rounded. Maybe when they retire when they are older, but only a few times until they realise getting a taxi is less bother.

They also know how to automatically get a car parking space at work, even if they are interns or plebs. It is a class thing after all.

jimgoose

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I am profoundly middle class. I am only polite to working class folk as a courtesy. But quite deep down I cannot bring myself to trust them and secretly hold them in contempt.

It is the climbers who phucked everything all up. I find that most working class climbers ( especially successful hard working types ) are literally no craic anyways or either. They smell a bit sometimes too. I hate their smell and their fake smiles. I love it when they put on a posh accent though, I like to see them trying at least, even though I know they are bores and a waste of time. The biggest indicator of a climber is overpriced new cars, always trashy. Don't forget old money = old cars, it is a simple formula.

I also seethe at Culchies. That includes posh types from Cork City or Killkenny, thats right, I just see a culchie.

On a final note I looooooove working class women. Especially foul mouthed inner city Dublin types. They turn me on, I love a bit of rough. Also culchie climbers. I love women from Roscommon who are trying to score a rich guy in the "big schmoke", I love it when they adopt the posh accent, instant turn on.

Obi Wan is here - the Force is with him! :pac:

Yyhhuuu

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Middle class don't use public transport after their student days. They might get the bus to school or college to ensure they are rounded. Maybe when they retire when they are older, but only a few times until they realise getting a taxi is less bother.

They also know how to automatically get a car parking space at work, even if they are interns or plebs. It is a class thing after all.

Are you sure this is true I.e. that they dont use public transport, that's not what I saw travelling to south county Dublin by public transport nor on the London underground. By the way would I be categorised as middle class(forgetting about public transport)?

jimgoose

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

Are you sure this is true I.e. that they dont use public transport, that's not what I saw travelling to south county Dublin nor on the London underground. By the way would I be categorised as middle class?

It isn't - there's a couple of very convenient bus routes near my house (South-West Cork suburbs) and Woman and I often hop it into town and a half-decent restaurant. I even have a Leap card, like a student!

That reminds me, beware of anyone who talks the talk and walks the walk, but has never eaten fresh Hake - they're an impostor.

IAMAMORON

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

Are you sure this is true I.e. that they dont use public transport, that's not what I saw travelling to south county Dublin by public transport nor on the London underground. By the way would I be categorised as middle class?

Abs, you will get a bit of drib and drab around internships and finishing uni.

London is a bad example, as middle class there can be super rich and getting the tube is a formality. Boris Johnson gets the tube ffs.

I am not so sure you are middle class either, unless you're still a teenager and then maybe you are. But you are certainly ascertaining to be quite naive.

Do you get an allowance, pocket money or "spends"?

Yyhhuuu

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Abs, you will get a bit of drib and drab around internships and finishing uni.

London is a bad example, as middle class there can be super rich and getting the tube is a formality. Boris Johnson gets the tube ffs.

I am not so sure you are middle class either, unless you're still a teenager and then maybe you are. But you are certainly ascertaining to be quite naive.

Do you get an allowance, pocket money or "spends"?

In what way naive?

I work part time but much of my income is rental income. I do not need to work financially.

Ush1

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

In what way naive?

I work part time but much of my income is rental income. I do not need to work financially.

Don't worry, you likely are middle class. Some people on here read too many Paul Howard books and not enough actual literature.

IAMAMORON

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

In what way naive?

I work part time but much of my income is rental income. I do not need to work financially.

Ohhhhh?

Now I know your nouveau, only a climber would need to associate their income prospects with what they do for a living.

Stop digging please, it's very unbecoming.

Errashareesh

pgj2015 wrote: »

I come across people from all corners of Ireland and the world while working, people from all a classes. The working class Dubs are 99% of the time absolute gentlemen and ladies, very generous, easy to talk to and good craic. The upper middle class are usually ok but some of the middle class are a serious pain in the arse, they really try to put people down and try to show their imagined superiority over people they feel are below them. The worst thing about them is they are really boring, blabbing on about their boring lives, culchies who pretend to love rugby are the worst.

A middle class social climber would rather earn 20,000 per year as a solicitor than 100,000 a year as a bin man. They are idiots.

This is such a narrow definition of what middleclass is though. It's one type of person out of the most diverse "class" of all.