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Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

[Deleted User]

Is there another way of looking at it?
It’s still very, very divided, and actually seems to be getting more polarized over the last five years. It’s economy is woeful, very heavily dependent on the public sector.
Unionists are making plans to celebrate its centenary, but there seems to be very little to be happy with, certainly far less than the Republic or the rest of the UK.
No point in arguing about a border poll on this thread, but is there any possible way of looking at NI as a social, political and economic failure?

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Kaybaykwah

Yes but, if you look at past history like downcow does, you'll conclude the ROI will invade the North and use it as a stepping stone to do the same with Great Britain. The Irish Nation have made a long succession of attempts at conquering the British, or at least undermining their being ruled by them, which is a sin in itself. Lol.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

No one has answered the couple of questions I have asked a few times on this thread.

Why does it matter so much to many of you that I refer to myself as Irish?

If you live in ROI why is it important to you that you take over NI?

And one more question. If your government was willing, who of you would support the occupation of NI against the will of the majority?

Take over?

Are you saying a UI isn't a legitimate aspiration?

Seems like you're back to being anti-GFA again.

Do we have to explain what consent is again for you DC?

downcow

No one has answered the couple of questions I have asked a few times on this thread.

Why does it matter so much to many of you that I refer to myself as Irish?

If you live in ROI why is it important to you that you take over NI?

And one more question. If your government was willing, who of you would support the occupation of NI against the will of the majority?

downcow

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Northern Ireland a complete ****hole hopefully Britain will keep it we’ve enough of our own problems.

...any most of us in NI are as happy as pigs in sh1te.

Millionaire only not

Northern Ireland a complete ****hole hopefully Britain will keep it we’ve enough of our own problems.

ittakestwo

downcow wrote: »

And I you guys had behaved then it could still be that and you would be part of a leading world economy. Who knows. Maybe sometime in the future?

Republics GNP is 50% higher than the UK and 90% higher than NI so it would be a step backwards from an economic perspective to rejoin the UK.

But if we did the country would be called like it was before. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Ireland has always been Ireland and people from here have always been Irish.

BonnieSituation

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Equally anecdotal, but my last experience with an NI game was in Windsor Park, ballpark probably in and around 8 years ago, and the experience really put me off attending again. Union flags were very commonplace (which didn't bother me in the slightest). More significant for me, there were significant pockets of chanting that certainly didn't make things feel welcoming to me. I doubt my experience is particularly unique, and I'd imagine you would be highly condemnatory towards similar behaviour should you attend a GAA match, and be highly unlikely to attend again.

I'm aware that there seems to be less of these issues at major tournaments, with the away fans tending to be those who can afford big trips like that, but I was hoping for something a little deeper than a gut feeling that support is increasing, and increasingly varied. For example, I have no idea what the demand for season tickets is like and how this has changed over the time period you're referring to. If you had some insight into this, like increasing numbers of season ticket holders, or longer waiting lists if all season tickets are reserved each year, it would be indicative of a greater demand.

I genuinely don't know anyone from a Nationalist background who regularly attends NI games or would describe themselves as an NI fan, so I'm surprised to hear you feel attendance is becoming more diverse. I wouldn't rule out it becoming more economically diverse with the team's increasing international performance in recent times, but those people would generally be bandwagon types, fairweather fans for the odd big game type of thing, and I wouldn't expect that to reflect in a huge up tick in overall ticket demand on a consistent basis.

The run-of-form boost I'd compare to the sudden increase in Fermanagh folk attending our GAA games when we go on an unexpected run and there's potentially a day out in Croke Park to be had (also fairweather types from more diverse backgrounds), but the start of the following season in Brewster Park, it's back to the usual attendees. I wouldn't point to the increased demand in Fermanagh for a game in Croke Park as evidence for a growing and increasingly diverse support for the team.

What I'm unaware of is the increase beyond this, and whether that increase would die away after a few bad games - what I'm long-windedly asking I suppose, is any increase you've noted a new crowd of lifelong fans, and some sort of potential quantification on how significant and diverse this increase has actually been.

Having had the pleasure of attending Brewster park on many occasions- given my provenance- , it was noticeable on my recent journeys the diversity of the crowd that was there vs years gone by.

Same can be said for trips to Clones for Ulster Final day.

There's a comfort in Nationalism these days that attracts people that is not seen at all in Loyalism. It's an inclusive political persuasion and its positive, Vs the "us'uns and Themmuns" attitude endemic in Loyalism.

We can see this even by how this comemeration has been discussed.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

leading world economy

The UK suffers the worst recession of any G7 country. Britain has now recorded the largest fall in GDP of any major country as well as the highest excess death rate in Europe.

newstatesman.com

You are the personification of Unionist delusion.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

It’s quite sad actually that now you want us to argue over who is entitled to use the word ireland. Have you guys taken out brand rights on it ?

You are Irish downcow...no arguments from me about that. Northern, Eastern Western or Southern...that'd be Irish.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's not me that has to depend on another country to give me a name for my identity downcow.

It’s quite sad actually that now you want us to argue over who is entitled to use the word ireland. Have you guys taken out brand rights on it ?

downcow

tupenny wrote: »

I beg to differ. 3 friends and I were told to **** off back to our own country. In a Belfast hotel lift, close to Linfield . Should have done our research..

Now just where exactly is linfield? I stand to be corrected but it’s not an area I am familiar with? And what are you implying by saying you should have done your research?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Exactly. Francie must think we don’t have google satalite in the black north.

Mind you it’s not as easy to see that Canada is not one of the United States or NI is not part of ROI.

It's not me that has to depend on another country to give me a name for my identity downcow.

tupenny

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I live there for most of a year about a decade back. Thought it was a cracking country. Still do. People are sound and it's a beautiful country. As long as you don't go mouthing off about one side or the other of the Unionism/Nationalism debate then you wouldn't have any more bother than you'd expect in any modern country.

Tragic that the Brits have decided to wipe their arse with it.

I beg to differ. 3 friends and I were told to **** off back to our own country. In a Belfast hotel lift, close to Linfield . Should have done our research..

downcow

ittakestwo wrote: »

Google Satellite can enlightenment you to the fact NI is not part of Britain.

Exactly. Francie must think we don’t have google satalite in the black north.

Mind you it’s not as easy to see that Canada is not one of the United States or NI is not part of ROI.

ittakestwo

downcow wrote: »

Do you seriously think you have just enlightened me to the fact that ni is not part of Britain?

Google Satellite can enlightenment you to the fact NI is not part of Britain.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes...but it not confirmation that NI is Britain, it isn't.

Do you seriously think you have just enlightened me to the fact that ni is not part of Britain?

Next you’ll be telling me that I thought it was part of Eire lol

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Of course I was disputing him saying that team gb did not represent ni. You confirmed that for me. We were agreeing. Can you not handle us agreeing Francie that team gb includes the whole of the Uk

Yes...but it not confirmation that NI is Britain, it isn't.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, the TeamGB bit.

When somebody said what I said but didn't link to the site, confirming it, I think you were going to dispute it. here's your answer to him/her:

Of course I was disputing him saying that team gb did not represent ni. You confirmed that for me. We were agreeing. Can you not handle us agreeing Francie that team gb includes the whole of the Uk

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

And I you guys had behaved then it could still be that and you would be part of a leading world economy. Who knows. Maybe sometime in the future?

Well, we wouldn't be running around after our masters pretending to be something we are not. We'd be Irish.

downcow

ittakestwo wrote: »

Yeah, The UK is made up of GB and NI... British and Irish people. You are from Ireland so are Irish. Why cant you accept this?

Why is it so important to you that I am Irish? Serious question. I couldn’t care you refer to yourself as a Martian

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Are you saying that I didn’t know the UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland???

No, the TeamGB bit.

When somebody said what I said but didn't link to the site, confirming it, I think you were going to dispute it. here's your answer to him/her:

downcow wrote:

Well that is just nonsense
You do read some nonsense on here

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's obvious why they did it. They never wanted it to be Britain...because, call them whatever you like but the British aren't stupid, they knew it would never fly with anyone. That's also why it was always Ireland before partition and independence - The United Kingdom of Gt Britain and Ireland.

And I you guys had behaved then it could still be that and you would be part of a leading world economy. Who knows. Maybe sometime in the future?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Haha. Are you really suggesting that the fact ‘Northern ireland’ is the only country named on the front of every british passport worldwide should make me feel Oirish haha. What are you drinking tonight?

I am extremely grateful to our uk nation for allowing us to be named on everyone’s passport.

It's obvious why they did it. They never wanted it to be Britain...because, call them whatever you like but the British aren't stupid, they knew it would never fly with anyone. That's also why it was always Ireland before partition and independence - The United Kingdom of Gt Britain and Ireland.

ittakestwo

downcow wrote: »

Haha. Are you really suggesting that the fact ‘Northern ireland’ is the only country named on the front of every british passport worldwide should make me feel Oirish haha. What are you drinking tonight?

I am extremely grateful to our uk nation for allowing us to be named on everyone’s passport.

Yeah, The UK is made up of GB and NI... British and Irish people. You are from Ireland so are Irish. Why cant you accept this?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I get the distinct impression you didn't know that info. You're great at making the best of being 'othered' anyhow. I suppose it's happened that often now you are bound to be used to it.

Are you saying that I didn’t know the UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland???

downcow

ittakestwo wrote: »

But does that not bring home to you the fact you're Irish and not British?

Haha. Are you really suggesting that the fact ‘Northern ireland’ is the only country named on the front of every british passport worldwide should make me feel Oirish haha. What are you drinking tonight?

I am extremely grateful to our uk nation for allowing us to be named on everyone’s passport.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

It’s beautiful music to my ears no matter how you want to package it. I love that we get a special mention, even on the front of 50 million passports.

I get the distinct impression you didn't know that info. You're great at making the best of being 'othered' anyhow. I suppose it's happened that often now you are bound to be used to it.

ittakestwo

downcow wrote: »

It’s beautiful music to my ears no matter how you want to package it. I love that we get a special mention, even on the front of 50 million passports.

But does that not bring home to you the fact you're Irish and not British?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well actually 'TeamGB' is a brand for the BOA the British Olympics Association and in the 'About Us' section it says this...that pesky 'and' again downcow. :mad:

https://www.teamgb.com/about-us/9HsI58MhzO0UWwouZWqdI

It’s beautiful music to my ears no matter how you want to package it. I love that we get a special mention, even on the front of 50 million passports.

ittakestwo

The team is officially known as the Great Britain and Northern Ireland Olympic Team,[3] and the use of Team GB as the BOA's branding is seen as inadequate by some, as it suggests the team is drawn from Great Britain alone, which only consists of England, Scotland and Wales, while omitting the rest of the territories where BOA athletes are eligible for selection, most notably Northern Ireland, as well as the Crown dependencies (Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey), and those British Overseas Territories (BOT) that are not represented by their own National Olympic Committee.