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Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

[Deleted User]

Is there another way of looking at it?
It’s still very, very divided, and actually seems to be getting more polarized over the last five years. It’s economy is woeful, very heavily dependent on the public sector.
Unionists are making plans to celebrate its centenary, but there seems to be very little to be happy with, certainly far less than the Republic or the rest of the UK.
No point in arguing about a border poll on this thread, but is there any possible way of looking at NI as a social, political and economic failure?

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Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

More feel british than any other identity. Next greatest identity is Northern Irish, with Irish the smallest of the three major identities - Based on what people say themselves.

The majority are Irish or 'northern' Irish.

Sadly, having lived in Ireland for centuries, a large majority of Unionists like to describe themselves as 'British Only'. If 6/7th generation British people were describing themselves as 'Irish Only' because of their hatred of the Britishness of the land they live in - I'd consider them petty, spiteful, and pathetic.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

GFA says NI is part of the UK. If you have a problem with the GFA vote Republican SF

You referred to it as 'Britain' man up and own your mistake. NI isn't and never was 'Britain' it is a part of Ireland.

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

the last census was 10 years ago...5 years before Brexit.
48% saw themselves as British

57.8% see themselves as some form of Irish.

Doesn't necessarily mean they would vote for a UI. They can still be culturally Irish but want to be part of a British governance.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Doesn't necessarily mean they would vote for a UI. They can still be culturally Irish but want to be part of a British governance.

That is an unknown.

The point is that in the census downcow was trumpeting the majority identify as some form of Irish as distinct from British.

Junkyard Tom

jh79 wrote: »

GFA says NI is part of the UK.

The disputed part of Ireland is currently under UK jurisdiction. Ireland isn't Britain, it's been like that for thousands of years.

You should get yourself a lambeg drum, record yourself lashing that fuck out of it, and upload here as responses because they'd have the same effect as your current ones.

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You referred to it as 'Britain' man up and own your mistake. NI isn't and never was 'Britain' it is a part of Ireland.

Legally they are British because that was the result of the court case.

NI problems will not change by giving it a new name. Just because it was wrong to partition in the first place doesn't mean unification will solve the problem.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Legally they are British because that was the result of the court case.

NI problems will not change by giving it a new name. Just because it was wrong to partition in the first place doesn't mean unification will solve the problem.

Is NI 'Britain' jh79...yes or no? :rolleyes:

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is NI 'Britain' jh79...yes or no? :rolleyes:

Well, technically it is the UK & NI as per the GFA but shorthand Britain is fine by me.

Ireland consists of 26 counties anything outside of that needs a new moniker.

jm08

jh79 wrote: »

Doesn't necessarily mean they would vote for a UI. They can still be culturally Irish but want to be part of a British governance.

Why do they keep voting for SF then? SF have 7 Westminister seats to DUP's 8. As you must know, SF don't take their seats in Westminister unlike SDLP who would be a good nationalist option if you were not in favour of a UI and wanted to be represented in the British parliament.

Junkyard Tom

jh79 wrote: »

Ireland consists of 26 counties anything outside of that needs a new moniker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6fPvBKCe0I

[Deleted User]

jm08 wrote: »

Why do they keep voting for SF then? SF have 7 Westminister seats to DUP's 8. As you must know, SF don't take their seats in Westminister unlike SDLP who would be a good nationalist option if you were not in favour of a UI and wanted to be represented in the British parliament.

Until a UI is achieved it's British. The GFA says that there is an aspiration for a UI.

[Deleted User]

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6fPvBKCe0I

No idea what that video is about or care. GFA says it is Britsh. A UI is an aspiration.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Well, technically it is the UK & NI as per the GFA but shorthand Britain is fine by me.

Ireland consists of 26 counties anything outside of that needs a new moniker.

What island are we on?

NI isn't and never was Britain. For the un-informed it is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Like calling NI 'Ulster' is wrong so is calling it Britain.

Junkyard Tom

jh79 wrote: »

GFA says it is Britsh.

Where exactly?

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What island are we on?

NI isn't and never was Britain. For the un-informed it is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Like calling NI 'Ulster' is wrong so is calling it Britain.

If it is Irish what are you aspiring to?

dd973

jh79 wrote: »

Until a UI is achieved it's British. The GFA says that there is an aspiration for a UI.

Politically it's in the UK but not in Britain, there's no country called Britain, it's a political and economic union titled 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'.

Great Britain is the landmass, and the Great is a geographical describer related to Brittany in Northern France unlike the signifier of power and exceptionalism that brainwashed British Nationalists (who can be found all over the UK) think it is.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

If it is Irish what are you aspiring to?

It is Ireland jh79, it isn't and never was Britain, no matter how much you want it to be.

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is Ireland jh79, it isn't and never was Britain, no matter how much you want it to be.

So no point in voting cause it's Irish anyways?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

So no point in voting cause it's Irish anyways?

Ha ha ha...love it. You just can't say it can you?

Fabulous. night night jh79

Kaybaykwah

jm08 wrote: »

At least its an inclusive pissup.

That little ''piss up'' gets Ireland's leaders an invite to the White House every year, lunch on Capital Hill (that even Trump didn't refuse to go to when Pelosi had walked out of a meeting with him). It gets Ireland name flashed all over the world, and most people have positive things to say about it which is good if you are a small exporting country like Ireland.

In Montreal, the St Patrick's day parade has gone on for 197 years, except for 2020. According to my father, Orangemen used to try to crash the party in the early 1900's, but they have disappeared like dust a long time ago.

ittakestwo

jh79 wrote: »

If it is Irish what are you aspiring to?

Northern Ireland is obviously on the island of Ireland and not Great Britain.... agreed?

But Northern Ireland is occupied by the UK and is not part of the republic south part of the island.

Presumably nationalist are aspiring to have the the north and south united into one independent country.

[Deleted User]

ittakestwo wrote: »

Northern Ireland is obviously on the island of Ireland and not Great Britain.... agreed?

But Northern Ireland is occupied by the UK and is not part of the republic south part of the island.

Presumably nationalist are aspiring to have the the north and south united into one independent country.

And part of the GFA was the acceptance of British sovereignty as legitimate.

It's a part of the GFA insecure republicans try to pretend doesn't exist.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

the last census was 10 years ago...5 years before Brexit.
48% saw themselves as British

57.8% see themselves as some form of Irish.

You just don’t get it. I am first and foremost Northern Irish. I have zero affinity to ROI, Eire, UI. It’s the place my dad was from but somehow you have managed to ensure it is the last place (almost) on this earth that I would want my wee country to unite with.

As for Britain being an island to the east, absolutely it is, but you have got stuck again on the idea tha a landmass has some divine right to be an independent state. People don’t seem to enter in to your equation. It’s all about land and walls and nationalistic nonsense

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What island are we on?

NI isn't and never was Britain. For the un-informed it is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Like calling NI 'Ulster' is wrong so is calling it Britain.

And referring to NI as ‘the North’ is also wrong. But you don’t seem to mind that lol.
You are being a tad pedantic around UK, Britain, etc

downcow

jh79 wrote: »

If it is Irish what are you aspiring to?

Great post. Nail on head

downcow

ittakestwo wrote: »

Northern Ireland is obviously on the island of Ireland and not Great Britain.... agreed?

But Northern Ireland is occupied by the UK and is not part of the republic south part of the island.

Presumably nationalist are aspiring to have the the north and south united into one independent country.

Occupied? Haha. I haven’t heard that for a while but I guess you still hear it a dissident committee meetings.
The shinners etc accepted the gfa which says it is not occupied.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

You just don’t get it. I am first and foremost Northern Irish. I have zero affinity to ROI, Eire, UI. It’s the place my dad was from but somehow you have managed to ensure it is the last place (almost) on this earth that I would want my wee country to unite with.

As for Britain being an island to the east, absolutely it is, but you have got stuck again on the idea tha a landmass has some divine right to be an independent state. People don’t seem to enter in to your equation. It’s all about land and walls and nationalistic nonsense

You argued for ages on the other thread thst you were British.
So now you are Irish?

I have always said that is the correct designation as you live on the island of Ireland beside Britain.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You argued for ages on the other thread thst you were British.
So now you are Irish?

I have always said that is the correct designation as you live on the island of Ireland beside Britain.

Just making more stuff up Francie. Maybe you’ll give us all a link to where I said a was first and foremost british.
Francie you just don’t get the UK family. It’s outside your understanding. You are an ‘ourselves alone’ mentality.
I am , like most English, Welsh, Scottish, Northern Irish, I am fully british but my first love is my own wee country.
I don’t really expect an ‘ourselves aloner’ to get it.
I am not irish - as you well know. I am born british and if I choose to have a dual identity I could but it’s not my choice.
Remember we do not want to enter a marriage with yous- please stop asking, you are embarrassing yourself. Let’s just be good friends. We love another lol

downcow

I once floated the idea on here of a United Island containing two countries NI & ROI. A United Kingdom, a marriage. But I couldn’t consider it anymore. Clearly you would be too possessive and checking up on us all the time. You would get jealous every time we spoke to our former lover.
You would be suspicious and you could become abusive again.
It would not be a healthy relationship.
You need to become more confident in yourselves and grow some more self esteem.
And then there’s your in-laws in Europe who would be interfering.
It would be a disaster!
Best we just remain good friends.
Sorry to turn you down again on your proposal. We actually could grow to like you but you need to back off and stop pressuring us.

Fionn1952

Jesus, you're really going for it with this cringeworthy metaphor of yours.

I'm gone for two days and Downcow is back to speaking on behalf of almost two million people.

Your hardline position is not representative of the majority view in NI any more than a hardline Republican view would be. The simple fact of the matter is that most people don't have the emotional investment in the topic that you have. I'm sure that most people I know from a Unionist background would be absolutely skundered by your little metaphor being used to represent their much more complex views.