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Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

[Deleted User]

Is there another way of looking at it?
It’s still very, very divided, and actually seems to be getting more polarized over the last five years. It’s economy is woeful, very heavily dependent on the public sector.
Unionists are making plans to celebrate its centenary, but there seems to be very little to be happy with, certainly far less than the Republic or the rest of the UK.
No point in arguing about a border poll on this thread, but is there any possible way of looking at NI as a social, political and economic failure?

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Jump_In_Jack

It can only be described as a failure.
It has put the 6 counties in limbo just waiting until the majority can vote to unify the island again.
Rigging the voting system and driving as many Irish Nationalists out of the 6 counties as they could has only served to prolong the wait.
That time has caused so much damage that it will take another 100 years to put it right again once this partitioning failure is over.
The whole aim of the English parliament in planting their unwanted British people into Ireland was to hamstring the Irish people for as long as possible, so arguably they succeeded in that much, and ironically the people they sent are unwilling to realise they were pawns by the English parliament against the Irish, and have spent their time clinging on to a colony that was never going to prosper.
I really never understood why the British in Northern Ireland have never just saved up a few quid and gone back and bought a property in Britain, as that’s all they seem to want, to be British.
Being British in Northern Ireland is like taking a sick pleasure in other people’s discomfort and I do not understand the psyche, actually wanting to live your whole life as an unwanted invader in another country, clinging on until you eventually get removed, is a very strange way to live a life.
It’s got to leave a mark on your soul after all that.
And the biggest joke about it all is the English have zero interest In Northern Ireland, it’s a colony that they could do without at this stage, and they would probably like to see the back of It sooner rather than later.
I imagine they would have loved not to have to deal with it when they were negotiating the withdrawal from Europe, and their negotiators had to be constantly reminded about the GFA, which they seemed completely bewildered by whenever they announced decisions and then had to row back again afterwards when they found out about things we all understood fully in Ireland.
Perhaps in January there will be some clarity around what will happen in NI and it will bring closer the time to call the border poll.

[Deleted User]

downcow wrote: »

You guys need to let go of the past and work from where we are now.
Northern Ireland has been british for several centuries and you guys partitioned yourselves from us 100 years ago and are now crying for us to join in your little nationalistic project because you think your economy may be better if we join you.

You keep proposing marriage to us and we keep refusing. You are just a good friend. We don’t want to marry. Let’s stay good friends and have a bit of crack together. I am sorry if you are hurt by our rejection

What a load of nonsense

onh81

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/letters/unionist-community-getting-older-shrinking-and-needs-get-serious-about-future-2948965

Worthwhile read, hits the nail on the head

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Ok so I got the date wrong. So when did you leave the UK?

Last time I looked Scotland wanted to stay in the UK. Glad we had that referendum or you’d be telling us that they want out and we won’t let them go

You got more than just the date wrong. You based your argument on Southern Ireland leaving the UK at the same time as partition.

Ireland only became a republic in 1949 - so you were a long way out.

As for Scotland there is a sizeable number of people who want to leave the UK. They are being denied a referendum by their bosses in Downing Street.

downcow

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

It can only be described as a failure.
It has put the 6 counties in limbo just waiting until the majority can vote to unify the island again.
Rigging the voting system and driving as many Irish Nationalists out of the 6 counties as they could has only served to prolong the wait.
That time has caused so much damage that it will take another 100 years to put it right again once this partitioning failure is over.
The whole aim of the English parliament in planting their unwanted British people into Ireland was to hamstring the Irish people for as long as possible, so arguably they succeeded in that much, and ironically the people they sent are unwilling to realise they were pawns by the English parliament against the Irish, and have spent their time clinging on to a colony that was never going to prosper.
I really never understood why the British in Northern Ireland have never just saved up a few quid and gone back and bought a property in Britain, as that’s all they seem to want, to be British.
Being British in Northern Ireland is like taking a sick pleasure in other people’s discomfort and I do not understand the psyche, actually wanting to live your whole life as an unwanted invader in another country, clinging on until you eventually get removed, is a very strange way to live a life.
It’s got to leave a mark on your soul after all that.
And the biggest joke about it all is the English have zero interest In Northern Ireland, it’s a colony that they could do without at this stage, and they would probably like to see the back of It sooner rather than later.
I imagine they would have loved not to have to deal with it when they were negotiating the withdrawal from Europe, and their negotiators had to be constantly reminded about the GFA, which they seemed completely bewildered by whenever they announced decisions and then had to row back again afterwards when they found out about things we all understood fully in Ireland.
Perhaps in January there will be some clarity around what will happen in NI and it will bring closer the time to call the border poll.

Probably one of the most bigoted naive posts I have ever read. And that’s saying something You’ve outshone the regulars.

downcow

onh81 wrote: »

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/letters/unionist-community-getting-older-shrinking-and-needs-get-serious-about-future-2948965

Worthwhile read, hits the nail on the head

I think Alex is equating unionist with Protestant. The stats do not suggest the percentage supporting the union is decreasing. It is changing as more and more moderate nationalists support the union (I know that’s an oxymoron) and more and more People declare as neither and go with economics and that’s a no brainier

cameramonkey

downcow wrote: »

I think Alex is equating unionist with Protestant. The stats do not suggest the percentage supporting the union is decreasing. It is changing as more and more moderate nationalists support the union (I know that’s an oxymoron) and more and more People declare as neither and go with economics and that’s a no brainier

Like in North Belfast during the last election where basically every nationalist voted for Sinn Fein. North Belfast like all the constituency that go nationalist will stay nationalist. South Belfast is another where there has been a bit of a back and forward but now will never go back Unionist. Look across the six counties and see the pattern repeat. As the older stagnant Unionists die off and are replaced by younger more dynamic and better educated nationalists more power will be ceded. Looking into the future is not a nice prospect for unionists.
What do you mean by the economics being a no brainer?

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

It is changing as more and more moderate nationalists support the union

And that's why they all lined up behind SF/SDLP to make sure their part of Ireland stayed with the rest of the country in the EU? Keep fooling yourself.

Your 'precious Union' (the British couldn't give a shite about is) is only going in one direction.

You live in Ireland with Irish people who will be deciding your future so I would recommend you do your best to make the northeast of Ireland indistinguishable from the rest of Ireland so you can maintain the illusion of 'British rule'.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

And that's why they all lined up behind SF/SDLP to make sure their part of Ireland stayed with the rest of the country in the EU? Keep fooling yourself.

Your 'precious Union' (the British couldn't give a shite about is) is only going in one direction.

You live in Ireland with Irish people who will be deciding your future so I would recommend you do your best to make the northeast of Ireland indistinguishable from the rest of Ireland so you can maintain the illusion of 'British rule'.

Tom, I know you are struggling to grasp it, but I live in the UK and it is the people of the UK and no one else who will decide our future - now enshrined by the gfa. You may have made a huge mistake by agreeing to gfa, either that or you don’t understand it. This region of the UK has complete self determination by our UK residents and you, sf, the Ira, the dissidents, or Santa clause can’t take it away.
NI is rock solid. It survived the ira sectarian campaign, it passed Gerry Adams prediction of 2016, and it will pass Michelle O’Neills 2030 prediction.

You would go well with these guys lol https://www.bustle.com/articles/112757-6-famous-doomsday-cults-conspiracy-theorists-who-predicted-the-apocalypse-totally-wrong

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

And that's why they all lined up behind SF/SDLP to make sure their part of Ireland stayed with the rest of the country in the EU? Keep fooling yourself.

Your 'precious Union' (the British couldn't give a shite about is) is only going in one direction.

You live in Ireland with Irish people who will be deciding your future so I would recommend you do your best to make the northeast of Ireland indistinguishable from the rest of Ireland so you can maintain the illusion of 'British rule'.

I don't understand downcow's boasting about this as you pointed out.

As well as the DUP not getting their way with their own people,(leaving the EU) you had them getting shafted by the people that used them and cast them aside when it was expedient to do so.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

Tom, I know you are struggling to grasp it, but I live in the UK and it is the people of the UK and no one else who will decide our future - now enshrined by the gfa.

The GFA is a road-map that has one direction of travel. Ireland is steadily reuniting socially, economically, and psychologically, regardless of current jurisdictional arrangements. Britain is going to go its own way and Ireland will go its way.

Come on DC, it's over, let's face it, all that's happening here is the long goodbye.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

I think Alex is equating unionist with Protestant. The stats do not suggest the percentage supporting the union is decreasing. It is changing as more and more moderate nationalists support the union (I know that’s an oxymoron) and more and more People declare as neither and go with economics and that’s a no brainier

SF who are abstentionist won one less seat than the DUP in the last Westminister elections. If nationalists believe in the union why are they voting for SF in the secrecy of the ballot box?

If nationalist support the union, they would be voting for unionist politicians.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The GFA is a road-map that has one direction of travel. Ireland is steadily reuniting socially, economically, and psychologically, regardless of current jurisdictional arrangements. Britain is going to go its own way and Ireland will go its way.

Come on DC, it's over, let's face it, all that's happening here is the long goodbye.

Tom. Why don’t you admit that the gfa ensures only uk residents will decide ni future. You talking nonsense about ‘ireland’ decidibgbour future. It’s ehat I love about the gfa

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

Tom. Why don’t you admit that the gfa ensures only uk residents will decide ni future.

Ireland's future will be decided by the people of Ireland.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Tom. Why don’t you admit that the gfa ensures only uk residents will decide ni future. You talking nonsense about ‘ireland’ decidibgbour future. It’s ehat I love about the gfa

Further conformation that you neither support or understand the GFA. The Union will end when Irish people currently resident in the UK decide they want a UI.

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Further conformation that you neither support or understand the GFA. The Union will end when Irish people currently resident in the UK decide they want a UI.

That's exactly what he said. 100 % vote in the republic doesn't matter if NI votes no.

And the DeSouza case shows that by default all are British in NI.

Junkyard Tom

jh79 wrote: »

That's exactly what he said. 100 % vote in the republic doesn't matter if NI votes no.

And the DeSouza case shows that by default all are British in NI.

You could paint them red and call them lobsters but they'd still be Irish. You should join one of those unionist bands and take your windupery to the next level.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

That's exactly what he said. 100 % vote in the republic doesn't matter if NI votes no.

And the DeSouza case shows that by default all are British in NI.

Not if you read between his familiar lines, it isn't what he was saying.

And the British reneging on an International Agreement??? You can't be serious, they'd never do that would they?:eek:

Do you agree with them?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Further conformation that you neither support or understand the GFA. The Union will end when Irish people currently resident in the UK decide they want a UI.

Nonsense again Francie. There are hundreds of thousands of Irish people living on mainland uk and they will ha no say in the future of ni (I was going to say thank god, but it’s actually thank gfa)

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Nonsense again Francie. There are hundreds of thousands of Irish people living on mainland uk and they will ha no say in the future of ni (I was going to say thank god, but it’s actually thank gfa)

Ha ha...shifting the goalposts again.
Whatever...be happy in your delusions I suppose.

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not if you read between his familiar lines, it isn't what he was saying.

And the British reneging on an International Agreement??? You can't be serious, they'd never do that would they?:eek:

Do you agree with them?

Both of you are engaging in word play to have digs at each other. The citizens of NI decide ultimately. Whatever identity you force on them is just a sign of both your insecurities with regards the GFA.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You could paint them red and call them lobsters but they'd still be Irish. You should join one of those unionist bands and take your windupery to the next level.

So Tom, by your reckoning, does that mean you were all british before 1949. Or maybe you will have a wee clause in your logic to protect you from that lol

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Both of you are engaging in word play to have digs at each other. The citizens of NI decide ultimately. Whatever identity you force on them is just a sign of both your insecurities with regards the GFA.

So who do you think will be voting for a UI in NI - Irish people or British?

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

So Tom, by your reckoning, does that mean you were all british before 1949. Or maybe you will have a wee clause in your logic to protect you from that lol

No that's jh79's reckoning, take it up with him. I respect people's right to identify as they please and don't think it should be decided for them. In a United Ireland former Unionists should have their British identity respected too.

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So who do you think will be voting for a UI in NI - Irish people or British?

Both. Just the British will be within a certain region of Britain as set out by the parity of esteem element of the GFA.

downcow

jh79 wrote: »

Both of you are engaging in word play to have digs at each other. The citizens of NI decide ultimately. Whatever identity you force on them is just a sign of both your insecurities with regards the GFA.

I wouldn’t force any identity on the people living in my country. I like to deal in facts and the most recent census says that
More feel british than any other identity. Next greatest identity is Northern Irish, with Irish the smallest of the three major identities - Based on what people say themselves.
I know those stats will upset our United Irelanders but the only other logic will upset them even more ie we are born british and then you can choose - thankfully more are choosing Northern Irish than Irish - but the much greater number are happy with their british tag of birth.

[Deleted User]

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

No that's jh79's reckoning, take it up with him. I respect people's right to identify as they please and don't think it should be decided for them. In a United Ireland former Unionists should have their British identity respected too.

No it's not. I don't have believe in a default nationality but the facts are legally they are British.

Call yourself whatever you want you still only get to tick a box at the end of the day and just smacks of insecurity to force it on someone else.

Junkyard Tom

jh79 wrote: »

Both. Just the British will be within a certain region of Britain as set out by the parity of esteem element of the GFA.

Britain is the island to the East of Ireland. It's been like that for tens of thousands of years.

Haven't you noticed?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I wouldn’t force any identity on the people living in my country. I like to deal in facts and the most recent census says that
More feel british than any other identity. Next greatest identity is Northern Irish, with Irish the smallest of the three major identities - Based on what people say themselves.
I know those stats will upset our United Irelanders but the only other logic will upset them even more ie we are born british and then you can choose - thankfully more are choosing Northern Irish than Irish - but the much greater number are happy with their british tag of birth.

the last census was 10 years ago...5 years before Brexit.
48% saw themselves as British

57.8% see themselves as some form of Irish.

[Deleted User]

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Britain is the island to the East of Ireland. It's been like that for tens of thousands of years.

Haven't you noticed?

GFA says NI is part of the UK. If you have a problem with the GFA vote Republican SF