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Post primary return to schools roadmap

Random sample

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/7acad-reopening-our-post-primary-schools/#additional-guidelines-and-procedures

A thread to discuss issues.

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Random sample

RealJohn wrote: »

That might be alright. Most of the people in my departments are good craic. Probably would be much paying attention to the meeting going on though.

We've been told to report to the room in question though, so I assume that the current plan is that we're all in one room, at the start anyway.

Oh it’ll be great so long as we remember to mute the mic!

RealJohn

Random sample wrote: »

We are being put in our subject meetings for staff meetings, and will join a zoom meeting like that.

That might be alright. Most of the people in my departments are good craic. Probably would be much paying attention to the meeting going on though.

We've been told to report to the room in question though, so I assume that the current plan is that we're all in one room, at the start anyway.

Random sample

We are being put in our subject meetings for staff meetings, and will join a zoom meeting like that.

Best of both worlds for management, all staff onsite, but not able to fully engage in the staff meeting either.

Rosita

There's been a lot of furore about the 81 people in Galway on Wednesday. Presumably that was in a large space. There'll be schools that will exceed that in a full staff meeting. My own school will be 50+. To my mind it's extraordinary that staff meetings are being blithely organised as if there are no general restrictions regarding large gatherings. Obviously anyone can point to the fact that we are entering a crazy situation regarding classroom numbers but at least Principals have control over the organisation of staff meetings. So fair play to the TUI.

Some have commented, after Clifden, if there are different rules for the "elites"........well the opposite is also true - if we accept attending in a situation after which we expected them to resign then maybe we are saying there are different rules, which is that teachers do not have the same expectation of safety that the Oireachtas Golf Society should have.

khalessi

RealJohn wrote: »

Got an email from the TUI yesterday. It sent a bit of a mixed message, but the first line was "We wish to clarify that staff meetings must be held online." It then went on to say that "Staff meetings should be held remotely or in small groups or in large spaces to facilitate physical distancing.", which muddies the waters a bit. What constitutes a "large space"? Is it simply a matter of having 1/2 m between all seats/desks/whatever, or is there more to take into account, given that it might be a shared indoor space for several hours, with significantly more than 6 teachers.

I'm not that worried, personally, but I imagine this might cause an issue for some people. We're due to spend a day next week in a staff meeting, in a room that I'm not sure I'd consider a "large space".

A partition seems to work for any size space, just open it for the speeches.

r93kaey5p2izun

RealJohn wrote: »

Got an email from the TUI yesterday. It sent a bit of a mixed message, but the first line was "We wish to clarify that staff meetings must be held online." It then went on to say that "Staff meetings should be held remotely or in small groups or in large spaces to facilitate physical distancing.", which muddies the waters a bit. What constitutes a "large space"? Is it simply a matter of having 1/2 m between all seats/desks/whatever, or is there more to take into account, given that it might be a shared indoor space for several hours, with significantly more than 6 teachers.

I also received that information and it did not make sense. The TUI message is that staff meetings must take place online and then it refers to the relevant section of the guidelines which is highlighted. But the highlighted section states online, or in small groups, or in a large space. This will cause a row!

On the "large space", I think it would have to accommodate 2m distancing since that's what is required by the guidelines. Breaching that when there is an alternative (online or small groups) would be ridiculous.

Polka_Dot

Rosita wrote: »

Just wondering about this. If the visor is actually useless without the mask then is there any point in having both?

Obviously I can see the visor having a function where contact with people is fleeting and insignificant but in an environment where a mask is deemed necessary what is the added value of a visor? It looks like there isn't any maybe.

Masks protect others from you but don't really do much to protect you themselves. A visor will act as a shield and give you more protection, but don't do a great job of protecting others as droplets can escape out the sides.

wirelessdude01

RealJohn wrote: »

I'm not that worried, personally, but I imagine this might cause an issue for some people. We're due to spend a day next week in a staff meeting, in a room that I'm not sure I'd consider a "large space".

Funnily enough I've heard of schools pulling their Crok Parks day before going back as it goes over the limit of 6 yet have full school the following day. Couldn't make this stuff up.

byhookorbycrook

A visor protects your eyes and also prevents you from touching the front of your mask .
A visor alone isn’t sufficient as the gaps at the sides can allow droplets penetrate more easily .

wirelessdude01

khalessi wrote: »

Every little bit helps. I wear glasses but will wear visor too and a mask. This virus is known to be airborne and will swirl around in the atmosphere so a visor will help against that.

But but but the department document, droplets.....Ahh never mind

wirelessdude01

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

No, they continue as normal until extra buses are found. At the current reaction rate displayed by the Dept, that cud continue til November

Personally think buses will continue as per usual for well over half the country. Additional buses and staff aren't there.

RealJohn

Got an email from the TUI yesterday. It sent a bit of a mixed message, but the first line was "We wish to clarify that staff meetings must be held online." It then went on to say that "Staff meetings should be held remotely or in small groups or in large spaces to facilitate physical distancing.", which muddies the waters a bit. What constitutes a "large space"? Is it simply a matter of having 1/2 m between all seats/desks/whatever, or is there more to take into account, given that it might be a shared indoor space for several hours, with significantly more than 6 teachers.

I'm not that worried, personally, but I imagine this might cause an issue for some people. We're due to spend a day next week in a staff meeting, in a room that I'm not sure I'd consider a "large space".

khalessi

Rosita wrote: »

Just wondering about this. If the visor is actually useless without the mask then is there any point in having both?

Obviously I can see the visor having a function where contact with people is fleeting and insignificant but in an environment where a mask is deemed necessary what is the added value of a visor? It looks like there isn't any maybe.

Every little bit helps. I wear glasses but will wear visor too and a mask. This virus is known to be airborne and will swirl around in the atmosphere so a visor will help against that.

Rosita

khalessi wrote: »

My sister works in Covid A/e and all through it she would wear the mask and visor together always, visor useless without mask..

Just wondering about this. If the visor is actually useless without the mask then is there any point in having both?

Obviously I can see the visor having a function where contact with people is fleeting and insignificant but in an environment where a mask is deemed necessary what is the added value of a visor? It looks like there isn't any maybe.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Treppen wrote: »

Is there a plan for having the school busses at 50% capacity?

No, they continue as normal until extra buses are found. At the current reaction rate displayed by the Dept, that cud continue til November

Treppen

Is there a plan for having the school busses at 50% capacity?

RealJohn

Random sample wrote: »

I’m not high risk, but I think if the virus has got onto my shoes or clothes to the extent that they need to be removed and carried through the house in a bag, then it’s on my face and hands too. I think it’s highly unlikely that it would survive the day on your clothes without infecting you, only to catch you out once you are at home.

Yeah, I am definitely not going to be stripping off in the hall and running straight for the shower, at least as things stand. Hospitals are different. They’re virtually guaranteed to have come into contact with someone, at least indirectly. Schools are increased risk, just because of the numbers, but nowhere near as much of a risk as hospitals.

RealJohn

TheValeyard wrote: »

Anyone else going got a sneaking suspicion this could all stop last minute.

I think the schools will definitely open, on schedule. I doubt there won’t be widespread closures, if not the instruction to close all schools though, before the end of the year.

Rosita

TheValeyard wrote: »

Anyone else going got a sneaking suspicion this could all stop last minute.

Logically schools should not be opening when infection spread is increasing rapidly. It's a political (rather than public health) judgement that will decide. Which will be the bigger disaster, not opening schools after all the "leadership" shown over the last three weeks insisting they'll open, or to be seen in hindsight to have contributed hugely to a great surge of infection by insisting on the mobilisation of hundreds of thousands of people to get schools back?

But even 24 hours is a long time in the current environment. Anything could happen but my understanding is that they are essentially ignoring NPHET advice (which they are entitled to do in fairness) in opening schools now so they will tough it out until they absolutely run out of road. The can will be kicked along while there's a place left to kick it. If the schools don't open, or close again quickly, the pity will have been all the lost time when the wrinkles in online teaching models could have been ironed out.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Random sample wrote: »

But would you not be in physical contact with the kids yourself? So if you are infected it’s not through your shoes you will pass it on.

If someone (infected) has coughed or sneezed on a floor surface and you walk on that, you'll carry it home without knowing. Some people are taking off outdoor shoes at their doors and not bringing into their houses. Just being careful I guess

khalessi

Random sample wrote: »

I’m not high risk, but I think if the virus has got onto my shoes or clothes to the extent that they need to be removed and carried through the house in a bag, then it’s on my face and hands too. I think it’s highly unlikely that it would survive the day on your clothes without infecting you, only to catch you out once you are at home.

THat is why the person had a shower too on return home to keep family safe as they had been following H&S procedures in the hospital. It is pretty much what most people i know were doing working in HC sector.

But sure you can decide what you need to do yourself.

Random sample

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Bring in on floor surfaces and kids play on floor

But would you not be in physical contact with the kids yourself? So if you are infected it’s not through your shoes you will pass it on.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Random sample wrote: »

But would your loved ones be likely to catch it off your shoe if you are infected? I think I’m missing something here.

Bring in on floor surfaces and kids play on floor

Random sample

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

It's more about not bringing it home to your loved ones.

But would your loved ones be likely to catch it off your shoe if you are infected? I think I’m missing something here.

am_zarathustra

I may be very lucky and be someone who's innate immune system simply clears it quickly when infected, given I'm a teacher and am exposed to viruses all the time this may be the case. My loved ones may be unlucky and I'll be the reason it was brought into the house. So much of what we personally do now is for the collective good, we behave responsibly to protect others and we hope they are doing the same for us

wirelessdude01

Random sample wrote: »

I’m not high risk, but I think if the virus has got onto my shoes or clothes to the extent that they need to be removed and carried through the house in a bag, then it’s on my face and hands too. I think it’s highly unlikely that it would survive the day on your clothes without infecting you, only to catch you out once you are at home.

It's more about not bringing it home to your loved ones.

Random sample

I’m not high risk, but I think if the virus has got onto my shoes or clothes to the extent that they need to be removed and carried through the house in a bag, then it’s on my face and hands too. I think it’s highly unlikely that it would survive the day on your clothes without infecting you, only to catch you out once you are at home.

am_zarathustra

khalessi wrote: »

I hope this helps. My sister works in Covid A/e and all through it she would wear the mask and visor together always, visor useless without mask. She made sure to wash her hands over and over. At the end of the shift she would walk to the car and change her shoes and wipe them down with a disinfectant disposable cloth. SHe would disinfect her hands and steering wheel with hand sanitizer, drive home and change at the doorway. Those clothes would be put in a bag, brought through the house and washed at high temp. She would shower immediately and change into fresh clothes. Re the laptop she wiped down her desktop with sterile wipes throughout the day and when she got home. So far tg touch woood n all she has not got anything and that has been her routine since March. She is concerned as are her colleagues about catching something but so far this has worked.

Good advice and very similar to what I'll be doing. Work runners that stay at work, half my work clothes are useless because they can't be washed at a high enough temperature so it'll be jeans and t-shirts for the year, special laundry basket at the door, then straight in the shower, loads of masks ready in ziplocks. (Make sure you are changing them regularly during the day, at least once).

Try and disinfect your hands every time you touch a communal surface and always have a small alcohol gel in your pocket. Watch their copies etc, online work for everyone

I hope your school take into account your health, it's an extra stressful time for anyone with health issues.

rainbowtrout

TheValeyard wrote: »

Anyone else going got a sneaking suspicion this could all stop last minute.

No, I'd say we will be opening. I'd say it will be a few weeks before we start seeing cases show up in schools and they will close schools on a localised basis. Collateral damage so to speak.

km79

TheValeyard wrote: »

Anyone else going got a sneaking suspicion this could all stop last minute.

The Dáil are being brought back early but AFTER schools reopen
It’s happening “by hook or by crook”