ShatterAlan wrote: » Let's begin with your first point. Putin is re-establishing a Soviet empire. Really? He took the leadership of Russia in 1999. That's 21 years ago. A long time for a man with the biggest navy in the world and the largest airforce to and an arsenal of nuclear weapons. Adolf took but 3 years to go from 1933 with 100,000 men as sanctioned by Versailles to blooding his Stuka dive bombers in Spain in 1936. ..... and ultimately killing millions in 6 years. WITHOUT weapons that could melt the planet...at yet you think that Putin and Russia, after 20 years, are going to rule the world and put us all to the sword? Grow the fuck up man
dotsman wrote: » How the fcuk is any of it propaganda? Is any of it wrong? Is any of it misleading/irrelevant?Putin, a "dictator for Life", has created an expanded Russian empire and wants to expand it even further. Under Putin, a handful of people have all the wealth and power, while the masses remain poor and wants to do more of this. All political dissent is ruthlessly suppressed. Minorities are ruthlessly oppressed. He keeps carrying out clandestine operations in European/US affairs to try to weaken any apposition to his expansion plans. He happily engages in arms races. He promotes a cult-like following. Sounds very much like the USSR to me! P.S. Other than resigning his position as a brutal pro-USSR KGB agent in 1991, Putin had nothing to do with "the fall of the USSR". And he only resigned after he realised that all was lost and he jumped ship (years after the crack had actually been forged by the real people who were instrumental in bringing down the USSR. FYP. Congratulations, you now have the geo-political and history understanding of a mediocre teenager. As Pope put it: "A little learning is a dangerous thing". Can I suggest you stay off the internet for a while? Whatever websites/influencers you follow are seriously feeding you some grade A BS.
ShatterAlan wrote: » What a load of bollocks. I have many friends living in Moscow and what you are talking is utter sh1t. Ans which spies has Putin killed in England? Names and proof please.
ShatterAlan wrote: » Every satellite and every astronaut (americans included) that are sent into space get there via the propulsion of a Russian rocket engine. I think the Russkis are probably quite handy at the old science and engineering.
Hotblack Desiato wrote: » That's complete bullsh!t.
imme wrote: » They control what they want to control, evidence of this is the Russian football hooligans at the 2016 Euros.
dotsman wrote: » How the fcuk is any of it propaganda? Is any of it wrong? Is any of it misleading/irrelevant?Putin, a "dictator for Life", has created an expanded Russian empire and wants to expand it even further. Under Putin, a handful of people have all the wealth and power, while the masses remain poor and wants to do more of this. All political dissent is ruthlessly suppressed. Minorities are ruthlessly oppressed. He keeps carrying out clandestine operations in European/US affairs to try to weaken any apposition to his expansion plans. He happily engages in arms races. He promotes a cult-like following. Sounds very much like the USSR to me!P.S. Other than resigning his position as a brutal pro-USSR KGB agent in 1991, Putin had nothing to do with "the fall of the USSR". And he only resigned after he realised that all was lost and he jumped ship (years after the crack had actually been forged by the real people who were instrumental in bringing down the USSR. FYP. Congratulations, you now have the geo-political and history understanding of a mediocre teenager. As Pope put it: "A little learning is a dangerous thing". Can I suggest you stay off the internet for a while? Whatever websites/influencers you follow are seriously feeding you some grade A BS.
Hangdogroad wrote: » I asked you did you believe their explanation for being in Salisbury. Well, do you?
ShatterAlan wrote: » What you describe is the polar opposite to what I witnessed for a month there during the World Cup.
dotsman wrote: » WTF? Do you have even the slightest bit of knowledge of what you are talking about? Yugoslavia was NOT, nor EVER an ally of Russia. Tito was terrified of Stalin and feared that Moscow would try to overthrow him and replace him with a pro-Russian dictator. Yugoslavia spent the entire Cold War in fear that their country would be used like the Ardennes was during WW2 as a back door around the iron Curtain. Knowing that they could never stand up to Russia from a military perspective and coming from his Partisan past, Yugoslavia military doctrine was focused on local resistance and sabotage. Hence, when Yugoslavia broke up, there were guns everywhere (every town would have had an arsenal to allow the rapid forming of militia if Russia invaded). Also, sorry to burst your fantasy, but NATO never attacked and "smashed the place to pieces". After years of warfare and ethnic cleansing as Yugoslavia descended into independent states, when the communist party in Serbia (one of the states) carried out brutal massacres and took UN observers as hostages, NATO was asked to strike a few military targets over the space of a few weeks to bring them to the negotiating table (as part of the successful "Lift and Strike policy). Years later, when the communist party in Serbia again told the world (including your beloved russia) to fcuk off and let them slaughter the Kosovars, again NATO was asked to destroy a few strategic targets to bring them to the negotiating table.
coolbeans wrote: » I'm not trying to say that obviously but your impressions are only your impressions. That doesn't take away from the massive and worsening problems the country has. It doesn't help that an oligarch class has emerged most of whom seem determined on theft of all state assets egged on by an immensely wealthy and obliging president only happy to let that happen.
ShatterAlan wrote: » It IS propaganda and you've fallen for it.
ShatterAlan wrote: » I'm not talking about Stalin's purges or the gulags. We're talking about Russia here. And Putin is NOT trying to recreate a Soviet Socialist empire. Don't be so childish. That is the kind of nonsense that is spewed out in Western media circles to demonise Russia and terrify gullible people like you. The Eurasian Land mass is the holy grail for those on the periphery who want to control the world, countries like the US and it's EU and Japanese lapdogs. Putin was instrumental in bringing down the USSR and yet here you are crashing into your contradictions by absurdly stating that he's trying to re-establish it.
ShatterAlan wrote: » I have a simple exercise for you. Whenever western powers any country expresses the need to defend themselves from a certain country or threat from that country, that literally translates into "we want to take over and control that country for its strategic importance and resources"
ShatterAlan wrote: » You see? I asked you if you had proof and you resort to nothing more than peddling propaganda. In case it's skipped your attention it's not up to those two guys to prove their innocence it's up to you to PROVE their guilt and you can't do that. But it doesn't matter. the damage is done and you've been suckered and that was the object of the exercise all along so it was successful. 2 years on and not a word from Skripal or his daughter. They just vanished into thin air. No interviews no nothing. We don't even know it they ever existed or if they are now dead having been bumped off because they've outlived their purpose and we can't risk having them talk and expose the truth about the case. So it doesn't matter, you and many people like you just blindly swallowed this joke of a story and now have a very negative view of Russia in general and Putin in particular and that was the goal all along. To poison not the Skripals but to poison your opinion.
ShatterAlan wrote: » Yugoslavia was a natural Russian ally. That's why NATO attacked and smashed the place to pieces.
ShatterAlan wrote: » I travelled all over when I wasn't watching matches. I visited towns, villages and cities that were hundreds of miles away from the football centres. Are you trying to say that the whole country was pimped out for a month and then dismantled? That's some feat. The whole country is one big Potemkin village.
ShatterAlan wrote: » The time-honoured and shabby trick of trying to shut down debate by screaming "CT". The Gulf of Tonkin incident never happened, did it? If governments can make up a military attack they can certainly make up people to serve their agenda. Do you know for a fact that they existed? Granted it would be a risky proposal to put up pictures of the so-called Skripals only to have the real people in the pictures come out screaming that they are Joe and Jill Bloggs. The Skripals probably do/did exist. I've never seen them, never heard them being interviewed. Their house has been destroyed. I've never heard any of their neighbours talk about them. That doesn't prove that they don't exist, however
ohnonotgmail wrote: » while it is reasonable to maintain a healthy skepticism to suggest that they didnt exist at all is nonsense straight from the CT forum.
dotsman wrote: » You do realise that Croatia was never part of the Soviet Union/Warsaw Pact? It was part of Yugoslavia, a neutral country, like Ireland. Except they were terrified of Russian dictators invading and slaughtering them.
coolbeans wrote: » The World Cup is not representative of Russia and you can be sure that everything was stage managed. Regarding Yugoslavia they were not allies and Tito stood aloof and apart from the USSR for pretty much the entire Cold War. The Soviets tried to assassinate Tito several times but gave up in the end. The Serbs, hailing from a constituent state within Yugoslavia, had a natural affinity with the Russians but it hasn't counted for much for nearly a century after the Russians backed them against Imperial Germany. Counted for bugger all when NATO bombed the joint. All that said I like Russia and the people are wonderful if you know but don't be deluded based on a world cup trip. Don't be gay either, or black. They don't approve.
Hangdogroad wrote: » Do you believe these two lads story? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwbY9O_zMe4
ShatterAlan wrote: » Every satellite and every astronaut (americans included) that are sent into space get there via the propulsion of a Russian rocket engine.
dotsman wrote: » It's not "propaganda". In the brief history of the Soviet Union: millions were slaughtered by their own government; the entire population was kept in abject poverty; the entire population was oppressed via secret police and a policy of killing/torturing anyone who doesn't toe the line; any "deviants" (i.e. minorities) were violently suppressed; invaded and supported wars around the world resulting in countless suffering; half of Europe was invaded and ruthlessly oppressed for 45 years (and they very much wanted the other half); they kept the world on the brink of complete annihilation and they ultimately collapsed as they couldn't even afford bread for the people. ...and the "dictator for life" Putin is trying his best to recreate it. So no, I don't get a boner when I think of Russia/USSR/Putin, nor do I think it is "propaganda" to plainly state the relevant truth.
ShatterAlan wrote: » And you have proof, do you? Scotland Yard don't even have proof of any of it and freely admit to that fact. Doesn't stop the likes of liars like BoJo and Theresa May fooling you with weasel words such as "our anonymous sources confirm that it was most likely a Russian attack" and that is enough to con you.
