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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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unkel

Clutching at straws much?

It makes feck all difference to the environment if all 5 billion mobile phones in the world are charged wirelessly. Let's concentrate on getting a billion diesel vehicles off the road first and then just to make all electricity zero emissions, shall we...

MJohnston

unkel wrote: »

Fair enough. I wish I had that problem of falling asleep so easily

So it costs 1.5c to fully charge your phone wirelessly instead of 1c?

A recent study of wireless charging taxis in Norway found that there was very little in it between wired and wireless charging of the cars. As per above example, I couldn't care less if it cost me €250 instead of €230 to charge my car at home for the full year. The utter convenience of just parking and leaving. Beats even my tethered setup where my charge cable head is resting just inches away from the charge connection in my car.

I wasn’t really referring to personal cost, just the environmental cost of widespread wireless charging.

[Deleted User]

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Second, it is possible that the EV buyer segment, who tend to be wealthier, has been less affected by the crisis.

My emphasis: must be all those Teslas:D

The more senior the role, the more likely they are to be able to WFH thus also saving on commuter costs as well, virtually no "shopfloor" staff are able to WFH.

Calahonda52

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/0827/1161643-electric-car-sales-europe-2020-coronavirus/
.
The shift to electric

Economic factors are likely to be playing a role in the very large shift to electric vehicles. First, the variety of EVs available has increased, even in the last six months. And each new model appears more and more aligned with the driving needs of the typical family (range, charging and size).

Second, it is possible that the EV buyer segment, who tend to be wealthier, has been less affected by the crisis. Evidence from a different car segment might support this hypothesis: in Germany, for example, the decline in sales of more expensive luxury brands was lower. In terms of EV prices, while many government COVID-19 recovery packages included more grants for EVs (Germany and France), these changes came too late in the year (June) to explain the above trends.

My emphasis: must be all those Teslas:D

unkel

liamog wrote: »

when I go to bed, I tend to read a lot on the phone before drifting off to sleep. Having the cable means I don't have to worry about placing the phone in the right place.

Fair enough. I wish I had that problem of falling asleep so easily

MJohnston wrote: »

Did you know that for phones, which are in very close contact with the induction coils, wireless charging is on average 40% less efficient than wired charging?

So it costs 1.5c to fully charge your phone wirelessly instead of 1c?

A recent study of wireless charging taxis in Norway found that there was very little in it between wired and wireless charging of the cars. As per above example, I couldn't care less if it cost me €250 instead of €230 to charge my car at home for the full year. The utter convenience of just parking and leaving. Beats even my tethered setup where my charge cable head is resting just inches away from the charge connection in my car.

liamog

unkel wrote: »

Seriously? Why? Not wanting to go too far off topic here, but that intrigues me

Get yourself addicted to a Star Trek Fleet command, and you'll drain the battery between morning and 6pm. Similarly when I go to bed, I tend to read a lot on the phone before drifting off to sleep. Having the cable means I don't have to worry about placing the phone in the right place.

I find Qi charging useful for places like the car, where I will put the phone in one place, and resist the urge to pick it up until I stop driving.

MJohnston

unkel wrote: »

Seriously? Why? Not wanting to go too far off topic here, but that intrigues me

If you're sitting at your desk (or where ever) would you not just have a wireless charger in front of you and plonk the phone on it any time you are not actively using it?

Unless your battery is either useless / near dead and / or you are a super heavy phone user. In both cases I would just strap a 20Ah powerbank to the phone and use that :pac:

Did you know that for phones, which are in very close contact with the induction coils, wireless charging is on average 40% less efficient than wired charging? This is a severe problem with the technology in compact devices, no matter how convenient it might be.

Cars are more sophisticated and less compact than a phone obviously, so they can mitigate a lot of the energy loss, and are therefore much more efficient.

unkel

liamog wrote: »

I tend to charge my phone whilst using it

Seriously? Why? Not wanting to go too far off topic here, but that intrigues me

If you're sitting at your desk (or where ever) would you not just have a wireless charger in front of you and plonk the phone on it any time you are not actively using it?

Unless your battery is either useless / near dead and / or you are a super heavy phone user. In both cases I would just strap a 20Ah powerbank to the phone and use that :pac:

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

lol well for the next few decades a generator is more than good enough and the rex is cheaper to run on petrol than charge at Ionity for the same 100 Kms. Could be fuel cell or Bio fuel, synthetic maybe.

I use maybe 8 litres of Petrol every 2-3 months, probably a bit more in the Winter, costs me around 10 Euro's for a fill, the tank is 8 litres. Avoids completely the need for public charging and is best of both worlds and no need to build out expensive infrastructure that's going to take a long time.

There's a real argument to be made for that, maybe with a 20l tank.

300km EV range and then you're on petrol. No public infrastructure needed, just "fill up" at home overnight and use petrol for longer trips.

liamog

unkel wrote: »

It sure is the way forward for slow stationary charging. Using cables is beyond ridiculous. But I've been saying that about mobile phones for a long time too and still plenty of people seem to plug their phone in to charge.

As much as I like wireless charging for phones, the drawbacks to doing so are too high. I tend to charge my phone whilst using it, so in that case it's just easier to go with a wire.
The car is different, I'd love to have a wireless charging pad in the space outside the house. Just park up and it kicks in automatically.

unkel

Wireless induction charging for EVs is current tech. It is not technically difficult. In fact it was offered by BMW (of all suppliers!) years ago as a complete home install for €3k iirc, this included the fitting of a pad into the concrete floor of your driveway / garage.

It sure is the way forward for slow stationary charging. Using cables is beyond ridiculous. But I've been saying that about mobile phones for a long time too and still plenty of people seem to plug their phone in to charge. Really backwards when nearly all phones have wireless charging now and a half decent wireless charger costs just a tenner.

liamog

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Wireless charging, while parked or driving along motorways/national roads will be the future of EV's, you'll leave the motorway with a full charge. (that that's Off Topic, and a few decades away)

No need to lug heavy (inefficient) generators around with you.

I don't see wireless motorway charging really catching on. Wireless chargers in car parks would make sense.

[Deleted User]

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Wireless charging, while parked or driving along motorways/national roads will be the future of EV's, you'll leave the motorway with a full charge. (that that's Off Topic, and a few decades away)

No need to lug heavy (inefficient) generators around with you.

lol well for the next few decades a generator is more than good enough and the rex is cheaper to run on petrol than charge at Ionity for the same 100 Kms. Could be fuel cell or Bio fuel, synthetic maybe.

I use maybe 8 litres of Petrol every 2-3 months, probably a bit more in the Winter, costs me around 10 Euro's for a fill, the tank is 8 litres. Avoids completely the need for public charging and is best of both worlds and no need to build out expensive infrastructure that's going to take a long time.

AndyBoBandy

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe some day we'll have ev's with generators be they fuel cell or some form of synthetic biofuel, with a 64 kwh battery fuel consumption would be minuscule but the benefits of on board generator are huge and you wouldn't have all the nonsense of these chargers or lack of, broken, in use, queues etc.

Wireless charging, while parked or driving along motorways/national roads will be the future of EV's, you'll leave the motorway with a full charge. (that that's Off Topic, and a few decades away)

No need to lug heavy (inefficient) generators around with you.

[Deleted User]

Maybe some day we'll have ev's with generators be they fuel cell or some form of synthetic biofuel, with a 64 kwh battery fuel consumption would be minuscule but the benefits of on board generator are huge and you wouldn't have all the nonsense of these chargers or lack of, broken, in use, queues etc.

garo

Just get yourself a 100 solar PV panels. Surely there will be enough space on your mansion roof for that.

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

Very interesting
https://chargingshop.eu/product/30-kw-dc-wallbox-ccs2-3g-rfid-wi-fi/

8k for a 30kW CCS charger. Input is 400v 3phase AC so youd have a small cost to upgrade to 3 phase at home. Would be convenient to have at home if y ou have multiple EVs

As their literature states...

... you get best solution for shopping malls, office parkings and other public parkings lots with high car turnover.

Thats where they need to go. If Aldi/Lidl/Tesco put those in, it would be ideal.

Cant see them being used in any domestic scenarios though (unless you are of the multi-millionaire category).... it would eat the majority of any 3ph import limit you're likely to have in a house.... it would leave nothing for the sauna or swimming pool!

ELM327

DC charging at 30kW is as bad as AC charging at 22kW.
DC is only "bad" because of high C rates. 30kW into my S90D is likely to be about 0.37C

AndyBoBandy

Not sure how keen I'd be to always be DC charging an EV (even at a lowly rate of 30kW).

Although win the euromillions on Friday, and yeah, all bets are off. I'll have a few DC chargers installed in my 6-8 car garage for my fleet of EV's

ELM327

innrain wrote: »

Just as reference
Found these guys who are selling ABB DC 24kW for €10k with both types of plugs. Cheaper with just one.
https://chargingshop.eu/product-category/dc-chargers/
Also they have the etrel AC poles used by easygo and the ABB units used by Ionity
Their prices are backed up by another source from AT https://www.da-emobil.com/produkte.php

here ESB networks connection charges.
It's complex to determine pricing for high demand but fow the low side of things we can estimate some costs. For example for 44kW 3phase connection charge is €3.8k while for 50kW is €5k.

Very interesting
https://chargingshop.eu/product/30-kw-dc-wallbox-ccs2-3g-rfid-wi-fi/

8k for a 30kW CCS charger. Input is 400v 3phase AC so youd have a small cost to upgrade to 3 phase at home. Would be convenient to have at home if y ou have multiple EVs

liamog

Seen on Facebook, when EV chargers and bike lanes collide

innrain

Just as reference
Found these guys who are selling ABB DC 24kW for €10k with both types of plugs. Cheaper with just one.
https://chargingshop.eu/product-category/dc-chargers/
Also they have the etrel AC poles used by easygo and the ABB units used by Ionity
Their prices are backed up by another source from AT https://www.da-emobil.com/produkte.php

here ESB networks connection charges.
It's complex to determine pricing for high demand but fow the low side of things we can estimate some costs. For example for 44kW 3phase connection charge is €3.8k while for 50kW is €5k.

liamog

"How fast we can implement electric charging depends on the infrastructure needed to deal with them. We genuinely want to get them in, we would like to see the State and the electricity authorities to be more helpful in getting these things moving quickly. It is actually one of the largest blockages to increase the networks on our forecourts."

This bit does make sense, some of the delays we've seen (such as Ionity and eCars) waiting on ESB networks to upgrade a site are shocking.

Busman Paddy Lasty

KCross wrote: »

Thats exactly what I was thinking when I said wolf in sheeps clothing.... they need to keep that fuel flowing! Hydrogen would suit them down to the ground and the government too actually but I think that ship has sailed.

Hopefully that ship has sailed. The costs involved in building a hydrogen network should act as a deterrent to even starting going down that route. Expanding the grid is a far more elegant solution.

Pretty good dig against the ESB there by your man too.

KCross

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Re wolf in sheep's clothing, there was plenty of references to hydrogen and hydrogen fuelling stations.

Thats exactly what I was thinking when I said wolf in sheeps clothing.... they need to keep that fuel flowing! Hydrogen would suit them down to the ground and the government too actually but I think that ship has sailed.

Busman Paddy Lasty

Re wolf in sheep's clothing, there was plenty of references to hydrogen and hydrogen fuelling stations.

KCross

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40033535.html

They are saying the right things and it does of course make sense to have more rapids in current fuel stations as they see the potential for shop sales while the car is charging, so all that make sense.... i wonder is it a wolf in sheeps clothing though!

Snippet:

We’re big cheerleaders for EVs, because the longer people spend on the forecourt charging, the more they will spend inside. You make €1 profit on every €50 of diesel, but you could make double that on a coffee.

"How fast we can implement electric charging depends on the infrastructure needed to deal with them. We genuinely want to get them in, we would like to see the State and the electricity authorities to be more helpful in getting these things moving quickly. It is actually one of the largest blockages to increase the networks on our forecourts."

liamog

The first policy move that might actually help our governments target to end new ICE sales by 2030.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/aug/13/moderate-tories-join-greens-to-call-for-fossil-fuel-car-ban-by-2030

Black_Knight

graememk wrote: »

Seen that, Is it out now or still coming soon?

Not even coming soon. Sounds like they're starting to work with these developers now.

graememk

Black_Knight wrote: »

https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2020/08/android-for-cars.html

Plug share coming up Android auto. Zg3409 you've worked so hard towards this moment.

Could make finding and navigating to your nearest charge point much easier

Seen that, Is it out now or still coming soon?