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ESB eCars

liamog

Details from the dail on the eCars €10,000,000 expansion programme.

The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-01-24/10/?fbclid=IwAR1eGLQjNFuywCoaB__FJADns7gNOD09DaR9XLueHAKZ8vljfd-kL-_LpDs

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Black_Knight

Black_Knight wrote: »

Looking at my stats, and ESBs map, where are these 1100 public charge points they claim?
Rough estimates on the map suggest 550 odd ESB managed locations, granted some will have multiple units per site, and my own stats I scrape from the site say the total count of charge points on the ecars site (purple/3rd party ones included) is 814. Do they count each connector as a "charge point"?

https://esb.ie/ecars/our-network

Added some more stats. Currently 113 Fast charge points, and 582 slow charge points. With an additional 119 3rd party charge points on the Ecars map. I'm tracking this daily now, so it'll be interesting to see how it changes over time. Pity I missed the recent glut of DC upgrades and HPCP installs.

Any idea what the criteria for those 3rd party charge points showing up on the ecars map is? EasyGo for example are not shown. Kinda annoying the randomness of what charge points are shown based on what app you're using.

Kramer

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

was in Bray today........Yes, I was primarily looking for the parking space

Is it free to park in Bray if plugged in? I usually pay for parking there but if it's free, I'll bring my PHEV in future.
If the chargers are near the promenade, even better :pac:.

AndyBoBandy

Kramer wrote: »

Is it free to park in Bray if plugged in? I usually pay for parking there but if it's free, I'll bring my PHEV in future.
If the chargers are near the promenade, even better :pac:.

PlugShare says parking is free, so I’ll take that as gospel.

Even though you’ve to pay to charge now, it could still work out cheaper to pay for charging if parking comes free....

McGiver

Black_Knight wrote:

Added some more stats. Currently 113 Fast charge points, and 582 slow charge points. With an additional 119 3rd party charge points on the Ecars map. I'm tracking this daily now, so it'll be interesting to see how it changes over time. Pity I missed the recent glut of DC upgrades and HPCP installs.

Goingelectric.de shows 92 (CCS), so I wonder where's the rest. Did you include Superchargers CCS?

Black_Knight

McGiver wrote: »

Goingelectric.de shows 92 (CCS), so I wonder where's the rest. Did you include Superchargers CCS?

Ecars categorizes them as FAST, SEMI-SLOW and SLOW, I just pull everything on the ecars map site. FAST includes the new 150kW ones

innrain

Black_Knight wrote: »

Added some more stats. Currently 113 Fast charge points, and 582 slow charge points. With an additional 119 3rd party charge points on the Ecars map. I'm tracking this daily now, so it'll be interesting to see how it changes over time. Pity I missed the recent glut of DC upgrades and HPCP installs.

Any idea what the criteria for those 3rd party charge points showing up on the ecars map is? EasyGo for example are not shown. Kinda annoying the randomness of what charge points are shown based on what app you're using.

In the early days ESB ran a program similar to Tesla destination chargers. So most of the 3rd party chargers on their map are 3.7 kW old style esb chargers which probably don't exist or don't work. You can't rely on them without checking on plugshare.
https://www.siliconrepublic.com/earth-science/100-irish-green-hotels-to-get-e-car-charge-points

liamog

Black_Knight wrote: »

Ecars categorizes them as FAST, SEMI-SLOW and SLOW, I just pull everything on the ecars map site. FAST includes the new 150kW ones

*Driivz - The platform eCars use categorises them that way.
Have you figured out the difference between SLOW and SEMI-SLOW sites?

innrain

Black_Knight wrote: »

Added some more stats. Currently 113 Fast charge points, and 582 slow charge points. With an additional 119 3rd party charge points on the Ecars map. I'm tracking this daily now, so it'll be interesting to see how it changes over time. Pity I missed the recent glut of DC upgrades and HPCP installs.

Any idea what the criteria for those 3rd party charge points showing up on the ecars map is? EasyGo for example are not shown. Kinda annoying the randomness of what charge points are shown based on what app you're using.

I know you've told me before how you do it but it's over my level. When they had that kml file it was much simpler and I made a script to build a db with the status of each charger.
So for the layman like me on the desktop browser if you zoom out the map is grouping the charges. Filter and easy count

CCS 84 ecars (86 with 3rd party)
CHAdeMO 96 ecars (108 with 3rdparty)
Type 2 482 ecars (598 with 3rd party)
AC43 75 ecars (77 with 3rd party)

You can't really add them up as they are in different combinations.

Black_Knight

liamog wrote: »

*Driivz - The platform eCars use categorises them that way.
Have you figured out the difference between SLOW and SEMI-SLOW sites?

SLOW looks to just be the non ESB branded ones. Like those in Q-park, or in hotels. The purple markers on the map. Nothing to say they're all actually slower than the semi-slow. I seen the odd 11kW "SLOW" charge point.
SEMI-SLOW is the ESB supplied 7kW-22kW units.

innrain wrote: »

I know you've told me before how you do it but it's over my level. When they had that kml file it was much simpler and I made a script to build a db with the status of each charger.
So for the layman like me on the desktop browser if you zoom out the map is grouping the charges. Filter and easy count

CCS 84 ecars (86 with 3rd party)
CHAdeMO 96 ecars (108 with 3rdparty)
Type 2 482 ecars (598 with 3rd party)
AC43 75 ecars (77 with 3rd party)

You can't really add them up as they are in different combinations.

That KML file was a disaster. Wild west decoding that thing!

I'll explain basically what i'm doing:
When you browse that map, and open a single charge point, a call is made to their backend to get information (name, address, speed, availability etc.) on that charge point. Charge points are conveniently numbered sequentially so i'm just looping from 0 to X so I loop over every charge point (hopefully, it's not an exact science, as i'm just hoping that every charge point ID falls within the range i'm searching). Every call returns data, or not. For the ones which do, I store that data, and I do an extra call for its peak time usage (but I'm seeing less and less value in that). I also increment a counter for each speed of the charge point it finds. I store all this data in a time series database (holds snapshots of the data over time, so I can see how things have changed over time) and build graphs or metrics etc for whatever I find.

TLDR: I iterate over every charge point ESB returns on that map (assuming they display every charge point) and count each time a particular speed of charge point is found.

Black_Knight

Latest dashboard I keep regular eyes on:

Stats up the top go green if they increase, red if they decrease. Thresholds are manual, but only added it today so I'll see what I can do about that.

Black_Knight

Main Street, Bailieborough, Cavan marked for replacement.

Lost 2 slow chargers. Only 580 reported now vs 582 yesterday. Must try figure out way to narrow down what one has disappeared.

EDIT: Had a quick look but can't spot them. I'll try a better search later, and double check the code.

AndyBoBandy

Black_Knight wrote: »

Lost 2 slow chargers. Only 580 reported now vs 582 yesterday. Must try figure out way to narrow down what one has disappeared.

Could be losing more than 2 on some days as the currently being installed Tesco ones come online...

Have the number of AC chargers increased over the last few weeks as Tesco ones came online? I know of Rush, and wasn't there one installed in Blanchardstown as well?

zg3409

Black_Knight wrote: »

Looking at my stats, and ESBs map, where are these 1100 public charge points they claim?

They do count one pedestal with 2 connectors as 2 charge points. ESB listed Nissan garages with chargers and hotels where they fitted 3.7kW charge points on their website.

There was talk of interoperability between esb and easygo fobs and cards but nothing works yet. Easygo app lists esb and Ionity sites.

The esb chargers at hotels are typically 3.7kW Max, type 2 socket, very old, with many not working for years. They have no billing capability and are not monitored.

Some hotel sites have added non esb units or replaced the esb one. As said plugshare app often has real user status on these sites. I would like to see total stats for public chargers including easygo vs number of petrol stations

Parking in Bray is free while actively charging with parking warden issuing tickets. Once charging stops you may get a parking ticket. Parking fees for other spots are quite low with day rates on seafront north end car park. There may not be much of a saving compared to paying a couple of euro to park.

Wicklow town has different parking rules. They really need a sign per charger with parking rules

Nuphor

2x SCPs in New Ross seem to have disappeared from eCars.

Black_Knight

Nuphor wrote: »

2x SCPs in New Ross seem to have disappeared from eCars.

I see them. Off south street, and Barrack lane.

AndyBoBandy

Tesco Artane Castle is installed about a week now, so should be coming online soon enough.

That will plug a fairly big gap in the Artane/Beaumont area.....

obi604

does anyone have any graphs to show usage of the public chargers?

im guessing on the 10th August, the 7 and 22kw ones just took a massive plummet

ELM327

Ironically, the only ones where it may make sense to use the public AC chargers now are phevs. Small battery, charge slowly, get free parking.

Black_Knight

obi604 wrote: »

does anyone have any graphs to show usage of the public chargers?

im guessing on the 10th August, the 7 and 22kw ones just took a massive plummet

I have graphs pulling data from their "peak usage" times, but TBH it's useless data. There's little conclusions to be drawn from it. I might stop wasting CPU and time and remove that code.

ELM327 wrote: »

Ironically, the only ones where it may make sense to use the public AC chargers now are phevs. Small battery, charge slowly, get free parking.

Yup, the "trickle charge for free parking", and the odd time I actually need a destination charge in a town are the 2 times i'll use them.

AndyBoBandy

AC22's in Tesco carparks just don't make much sense at all!!! When I was using my local one (before August 10th), I was getting between 5-10% at most (unless I grabbed a coffee and read crap on my phone for 20-30 minutes after shopping).

Would it not be more convenient* to have a triple head (Chademo/CCS/AC43) in every Tesco in place of the twin AC22, so you could actually get something meaningful for the 15-30 minutes you'll spend shopping).

*convenient for the folks that home charging is not an option (would you rather do your quick charging at a petrol station, or in a local grocery store where your time is spent more meaningfully).

MJohnston

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

AC22's in Tesco carparks just don't make much sense at all!!! When I was using my local one (before August 10th), I was getting between 5-10% at most (unless I grabbed a coffee and read crap on my phone for 20-30 minutes after shopping).

Would it not be more convenient* to have a triple head (Chademo/CCS/AC43) in every Tesco in place of the twin AC22, so you could actually get something meaningful for the 15-30 minutes you'll spend shopping).

*convenient for the folks that home charging is not an option (would you rather do your quick charging at a petrol station, or in a local grocery store where your time is spent more meaningfully).

This has been done to death on the "Provided chargers at shops" thread but it'd very obviously be most convenient if every Tesco had lots and lots of the fastest possible chargers. That's not going to happen due to the costs, to Tesco, of doing so. The AC22 chargers are obviously what they saw having the best cost-benefit ratio for them.

Tesco should definitely be thinking about subsidising the charging costs though. It's something they already do with car parking costs at Dundrum, for example.

slave1

ELM327 wrote: »

Ironically, the only ones where it may make sense to use the public AC chargers now are phevs. Small battery, charge slowly, get free parking.

Agreed, the free charging incentive pulled way too early, Irish fixated on low car tax and fuel prices.
Now those PHEVs will take over

You don't pull incentives in the adoption phase

ELM327

slave1 wrote: »

Agreed, the free charging incentive pulled way too early, Irish fixated on low car tax and fuel prices.
Now those PHEVs will take over

You don't pull incentives in the adoption phase

Yup.
I think the fees for DC were needed but for AC it's too expensive and is a barrier to adoption.

slave1

Yes, free up the fast chargers for payment based splash and dash and leave destinations alone or if going to charge have it as close to night rate as possible

AndyBoBandy

slave1 wrote: »

if going to charge have it as close to night rate as possible

Set the rate somewhere between average night & average day rate, so say about €0.13 per kWh, and actually compete with the home energy providers.

Folks that don't have the option to home charge: they get a decent rate..
Folks that don't have day/night meters: they get a competitive rate available to them that's cheaper than their home rate..

Install a sh1t ton of them everywhere and watch the money roll in.

JPA

They should remove parking charges for EV points, then the price per kWh is quite reasonable.

kanuseeme

ELM327 wrote: »

Yup.
I think the fees for DC were needed but for AC it's too expensive and is a barrier to adoption.

The AC fee is not too bad, depending on who you sign up with, the fees are only a few cent higher than day rate.
I think the real barrier for adoption is the DC fee, if ionity's current fees are needed to pay for use and maintain the network, whats the point in buying a EV unless your going to use it in its range or seldom go outside of it.

The real question is, Will Ecars increase their DC fees?

liamog

I don't know, the current pricing with membership for an average driver (17,000km) in a car that averages 16kWh/100km gives a per 100km price of €3.68, that's still about half the price of petrol car and 2/3s of a diesel car.

zg3409

kanuseeme wrote: »

whats the point in buying a EV unless your going to use it in its range or seldom go outside of it.

That is why you should only buy an EV when you can home charge and when it can cover your daily commute. It should also cover your typical weekend commute. Expecting to publically charge daily is insane, and even once a week is a chore.

Long term with 300km+ range EVs and the majority home charging the cost of public charging is not a big fee in overall annual cost. I have given ESB 10 euro since fees came in.

Now if you have no driveway, no workplace charging, and park on street, then you need lots of nearby AC or DC options before it makes sense to switch.

People need to realise AC pillars are far cheaper to install than DC but with a life less than 10 years they need to at least break even cost wise.

From a user point of view dozens of street AC sound great, but they need to be viable or subsided , and they may not get that much usage. Sure we could easily double existing install base, or quadruple and still not have enough, but they should be viable. The owners of the parking space say Dublin city council want an income also and they don't want reserved for EV spaces sitting empty most of the time.

DC chargers at big shopping centres and motorway services will be far more financially viable and profitable, and a shopping centre next to a motorway is ideal.

slave1

What's the expense for AC, is it pure labour/installation? The unit's themselves can't be that much, sure Tesla sell 22kW units for €530