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Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

[Deleted User]

Is there another way of looking at it?
It’s still very, very divided, and actually seems to be getting more polarized over the last five years. It’s economy is woeful, very heavily dependent on the public sector.
Unionists are making plans to celebrate its centenary, but there seems to be very little to be happy with, certainly far less than the Republic or the rest of the UK.
No point in arguing about a border poll on this thread, but is there any possible way of looking at NI as a social, political and economic failure?

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Hamsterchops

Shefwedfan wrote: »

But it’s not

I drove up the North today, didn’t see a border, no checking of passport, never even had to slow down, only thing different was the sign posts

So how is it divided?

If you drive from France to Germany there is no passport control either, no hard border and yet you are moving from one jurisdiction into another, and if you travel from the ROI into NI you have entered the United Kingdom!

The Territory is part of another country and as long as the majority of people living in that UK region wish it to remain within the UK, then this island remains divided, both through international law but also within people's hearts & minds and allegiances ....

ancapailldorcha

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It would cost who nothing?

It will cost every single tax payer in Ireland a lot....we will be hammered with additional taxes to pay for NI....not many discussing that.

I meant from a political perspective for the UK Labour party.

I've been called a West Brit for calling NI a country so if the Tíocfaidh Ár Lá brigade want it back so badly they can have it. As someone paying tax in the UK, I won't turn my nose up at the savings.

Shefwedfan

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It's not baffling. The provision for a referendum is there in the GFA. If the prospect of unification can attract a similar level of support that the GFA did from the Labour party then it's certainly possible. It would cost them nothing.

It would cost who nothing?

It will cost every single tax payer in Ireland a lot....we will be hammered with additional taxes to pay for NI....not many discussing that.

ancapailldorcha

Hamsterchops wrote: »

... indeed, more divided than ever, so just how "Unification" can ever come about baffles me

It's not baffling. The provision for a referendum is there in the GFA. If the prospect of unification can attract a similar level of support that the GFA did from the Labour party then it's certainly possible. It would cost them nothing.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

Its almost like the country was still divided.

But it’s not

I drove up the North today, didn’t see a border, no checking of passport, never even had to slow down, only thing different was the sign posts

So how is it divided?

Hamsterchops

... indeed, more divided than ever, so just how "Unification" can ever come about baffles me

James Brown

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Savages throwing poppy wreaths onto a bonfire somewhere in NI last night, and needless to say the other side were throwing stuff onto a Loyalist bonfire sometime in July

They seem to be caught in some kind of time warp, Groundhog style, unable to escape their tit for tat reprisals from a bygone age.

Its almost like the country was still divided.

ancapailldorcha

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Neither does calling it a country, its 6 counties that was partitioned from the rest of Ireland 100 years ago.

I'm not really interested in this edgy Shinner stuff so I'm leaving it at that.

Jim Root

Nothing specific to add other than I’m reading a biography about Eamonn De Valera at the moment and the formation / origins of Ireland in the early 1900s is being discussed in detail. Fascinating stuff.

Shefwedfan

LuasSimon wrote: »

Michael Collins , De Valera etc should never have agreed to a divided island / country . Thousands of lives have been lost in the civil war and the troubles . We should have all stayed in the United Kingdom or all been part of a United ireland .

How did we ever expect people from crossmaglen 98% nationalist to lie down and accept British rule ?

How many lives would have been lost if they didn’t?

The British would never have agreed, the whole island would still be in conflict and millions would have been lost.

But sure don’t mind that, it was Dev fault

What happened to non catholics living in the Republic after the agreement to divide? Ever think of them?

LuasSimon

Michael Collins , De Valera etc should never have agreed to a divided island / country . Thousands of lives have been lost in the civil war and the troubles . We should have all stayed in the United Kingdom or all been part of a United ireland .

How did we ever expect people from crossmaglen 98% nationalist to lie down and accept British rule ?

Shefwedfan

bucketybuck wrote: »

Were they throwing any women into canals?

“Stuff” and “done” is the best the posters could come up with

Who said you need to be precise or have sources around boards.

Shefwedfan

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Maimed or killed. I’d have thought it was self explanatory, but the playing dumb routine is another trait you could change the record on too.

No just wondering why you are talking about getting catholic’s “done”, you see it on a gangster movie?

bucketybuck

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Savages throwing poppy wreaths onto a bonfire somewhere in NI last night, and needless to say the other side were throwing stuff onto a Loyalist bonfire sometime in July
.

Were they throwing any women into canals?

[Deleted User]

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You added the last bit for some reason. What exactly is getting “done” to a catholic?

Maimed or killed. I’d have thought it was self explanatory, but the playing dumb routine is another trait you could change the record on too.

Shefwedfan

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Everyone should, but in reality very few do. Including all your precious loyalists.

You seem like the type that tut tuts and hates everything about SF and will celebrate and sing a few songs every time a catholic gets done. You’re a common enough bunch too, which is one of the main reasons it’s such a kip.

You added the last bit for some reason. What exactly is getting “done” to a catholic?

Shefwedfan

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Everyone should, but in reality very few do. Including all your precious loyalists.

In reality Sinn Fein don’t, they are the most backward party around but think pointing at the DUP makes them better

[Deleted User]

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Are Sinn Fein not supposed to represent all sides of the community?

Says a lot doesn’t it

Everyone should, but in reality very few do. Including all your precious loyalists.

You seem like the type that tut tuts and hates everything about SF and will celebrate and sing a few songs every time a catholic gets done. You’re a common enough bunch too, which is one of the main reasons it’s such a kip.

Shefwedfan

ChikiChiki wrote: »

The British have an image of us as being their poor neighbors when in reality the opposite is true. The average Irish person is much better off than the average Brit.

Which “British”?

I work everyday with a UK team(members all over UK) loads of people I know with do the same. I have never seen a single “British” person think or say we are the poor neighbours

I do see a lot of chip on shoulder Irish

Shefwedfan

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Here we go. Big bad Sinn Fein and the poor misunderstood loyalists. Change the record for once.

Are Sinn Fein not supposed to represent all sides of the community?

Says a lot doesn’t it

ChikiChiki

dd973 wrote: »

Their GDP is a fraction of ours, I thought we were the feckless ones living in hovels with pigs under our arms.

And they're the socially and educationally backward part of the island.

The English just think they're a mad bunch of Scottish infused Micks and for the most part can't or can't be bothered to differentiate between the two communities there whereas they see us in terms of Terry Wogan, Graham Norton, Father Ted, Dara O'Briain, etc.

The Scots, increasingly independence inclined regard their 'brethren' as an embarrassment, an Orange delegation who visited Edinburgh prior to the Sept 2014 referendum to support the No vote were told where to go in nae uncertain terms.

The likes of the DUP are a bit like a bloke you'd walk past on Eden Quay in his pyjama's speaking in tongues.

The place they've ended up in couldn't have happened to nicer people.

The British have an image of us as being their poor neighbors when in reality the opposite is true. The average Irish person is much better off than the average Brit.

[Deleted User]

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not everyone

You will find the likes of Sinn Fein like nothing better than to stoke the fire.

Here we go. Big bad Sinn Fein and the poor misunderstood loyalists. Change the record for once.

Shefwedfan

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Savages throwing poppy wreaths onto a bonfire somewhere in NI last night, and needless to say the other side were throwing stuff onto a Loyalist bonfire sometime in July

They seem to be caught in some kind of time warp, Groundhog style, unable to escape their tit for tat reprisals from a bygone age.

Not everyone

You will find the likes of Sinn Fein like nothing better than to stoke the fire.

Hamsterchops

Savages throwing poppy wreaths onto a bonfire somewhere in NI last night, and needless to say the other side were throwing stuff onto a Loyalist bonfire sometime in July

They seem to be caught in some kind of time warp, Groundhog style, unable to escape their tit for tat reprisals from a bygone age.

coolshannagh28

Fritzbox wrote: »

Multi national activity is "hugely important" for most healthy and thriving economies - why would you "strip it out"?

NI has a fairly similar economy to the Republic without MNC activity , If they had been allowed set their taxes at similar levels to ours they could have been competitive with us and its important to remember that the troubles had a hugely depressing long term effect on the economy there . Their figures for disposable income compare well with ours because of much lower taxation and lower cost of living with the exceptions of Dublin and Cork .

onh81

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Some parts of it seem like a dodgy council housing estate has taken over the county. Very rough.

I have stayed in Belfast for a few nights before, and thought it was an amazingly nice place, though. Would highly recommend it, and would go back without any issue whatsoever. This was last year though, before Covid etc. but it definitely gave a better lasting impression than Dublin ever has. Seemed vibrant and clean and friendly. Which some parts of Dublin are, in fairness, but Dublin just does seem to have this kind of dirtiness about it, and the zombies looking for money is a legitimate issue (one which I didn't encounter in Belfast, which could just be down to luck, of course).

Have travelled through the border counties a few times when making my way from one part of the republic to another, and NI generally seems like a relatively clean, well kept space. A lot of lovely people, too, but the undercurrent of scum and stereotypical riots/journalist murders/bonfires/etc. can't help but damage it's entire image and reputation.

It’s funny I always view the 26 as much cleaner and more pleasant than the North. There seems to be a culture of littering in the North where it’s just second nature to throw your rubbish out of the car. Same in towns and some villages, people have no pride and streets are strewn with litter. That’s before we even get onto fly tipping which seems to be a regional pastime!

Again with Belfast it does have some positives and has transformed over the last 20 years, I still find a Dublin a much more pleasant city. Granted the drugs problem is much worse in Dublin, Belfast still has a few grubby parts around the city centre and for some reason planners don’t like conserving the built heritage so there are a lot of ghastly buildings that ruin the character of the cityscape.

Shefwedfan

JasonStatham wrote: »

NI has great potential, if we can finally get rid of the English.

Remind me what potential is has?

Galwayguy35

O'Neill wrote: »

What would you prefer then? Describing northerners (myself) as 'uneducated; 'full of hate' 'backward' ect.. as others have highlighed on this thread. Sick of this ****e tbh

So take it up with those posters, no idea why you quoted me when I said none of those things about people from the North.

Galwayguy35

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

This sort of shrill name calling and spewing nonsense adds nothing.

Neither does calling it a country, its 6 counties that was partitioned from the rest of Ireland 100 years ago.

Zebra3

Eric Cartman wrote: »

At this point its in the 'diminishing returns' stage of investment.

At this point?

:D:D

That point was passed long ago.

When you think back to all those industries that unionism claimed to fighting to protect from 1880s-1921, they've all pretty much gone.