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Gun safe won't open

Heckler

Hi,

Having a bit of trouble with my gun safe. Opened it to get my gear out a couple of days ago and relocked. Went back a few hours later to put the gear back in and it wouldn't open. I have two keys neither of which would work so I doubt both keys failed at the same time. its a Vogue 4-gun safe. Theres little to no give twisting the key to the unlock position.

https://www.topline.ie/tools-hardware/hardware/home-security/safes/vogue/4-gun-cabinet-deep

I'm going to get a locksmith over but thought I'd ask if anyone has had a similiar problem and/or solutions.

I'm aware I have an unsecured firearm at the moment. Components are distributed and well hidden and house is alarmed.

Thanks for any help/advice.

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Heckler

I'm some dope ! Looks like it wasn't locked at all. Got home from work earlier and threw a lash of wd40 along the length of the door. Went back a while later, put the key in and a pry bar into the edge of the door. Bit of pressure on the pry and it just popped open. Seems the bolts were engaged just enough that pulling on it with the key in wouldn't open it but the pry bar created a bit of space to allow it to open.

The key will do a quarter turn either way now but that's having no effect on the bolts. There's a bit of give on the top bolt when pushed but none on the others.

Next job is to open the back of the door and see if I can figure out whats going on inside.

Tudderone you mentioned replacing the lock myself. Would this be a hard job for the obviously idiotic me ?

Oh and thanks for all the suggestions !

Uinseann_16

Ahh a happy ending not too bad:D
If you sent a pick of the inside locking mechanism it would be easier to tell if the lock is replaceable

http://www.1010security.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=LF3010

This is the lock mechanism thats in my Warmflow 4 gun safe and it works fantastically

Heckler

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

Ahh a happy ending not too bad:D
If you sent a pick of the inside locking mechanism it would be easier to tell if the lock is replaceable

http://www.1010security.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=LF3010

This is the lock mechanism thats in my Warmflow 4 gun safe and it works fantastically

It'll be tomorrow before I get a chance to open up the back and have a look but I defo post a pic. Hopefully it won't be too hard to replace the mechanism.

The safe has a small integrated lock box so at least I can lock away the pistol and slide and rifle bolt.

kunekunesika

Congratulations

Feisar

viper123 wrote: »

With what ?!

viper123

Feisar wrote: »

But its locked in the safe :pac:

JP22

Heckler wrote: »

I'm some dope !

Don't be disheartened with yourself, we all make mistakes, its how we learn our best lessons.

Happy days, I was going to suggest using a pry-bar of screwdriver to slightly lift the door while turning the key. Sometimes the door hinges/bearing faces wear and the door slightly drops making it difficult to open.

FWIW, My safe will lock with one turn of the key HOWEVER, its not fully locked at that, fully locked it needs two full turns for the five bolts to fully engage, took a while to figure this out myself.

Oil will dry over time, try some grease on the lock and the bolt mechanism.

The basic locks can be bought off the shelf and DIY installed.

JP

Heckler

Thanks for that ! Gonna take off the back panel and see whats going on. I'll post a pic and maybe someone can advise on what to do.

Grizzly 45

Feisar wrote: »

Ask AGS nicely up in the Park...I think they have one in the forensics collection,albeit chopped down abit in the barrel AFAIR:D:eek:

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Ask AGS nicely up in the Park...I think they have one in the forensics collection,albeit chopped down abit in the barrel AFAIR:D:eek:

You would wonder at the story of how a rifle like that made its way through a massive conflict like ww1 and end up in Ireland ?

Chiparus

tudderone wrote: »

You would wonder at the story of how a rifle like that made its way through a massive conflict like ww1 and end up in Ireland ?

Lots of stuff ended up in Ireland after WWI,
All the "war of independence" grenades that are found in attics etc are battle field pickups.

I saw a picture of the giant mauser in the garda collection, a few years ago, the pistol grip seemed to be gone.

tudderone

Chiparus wrote: »

Lots of stuff ended up in Ireland after WWI,
All the "war of independence" grenades that are found in attics etc are battle field pickups.

I saw a picture of the giant mauser in the garda collection, a few years ago, the pistol grip seemed to be gone.

Well having a pistol grip would make it restricted

Grizzly 45

Chiparus wrote: »

Lots of stuff ended up in Ireland after WWI,
All the "war of independence" grenades that are found in attics etc are battle field pickups.

I saw a picture of the giant mauser in the garda collection, a few years ago, the pistol grip seemed to be gone.

Thats the same one,a cut down" Tank Gewehr".How that ended up here is going to be a really intresting story.

Yup,we even have a Artillery Luger converted to select fire in the Curragh armoury apprently as well.Complete with stock and snail drum and forward grip.
I suspect it's a Lebman conversion..Hyman Lebman was a gunsmith and saddle maker in San Antonio ,Texas who converted a 1911 A1 colt to full auto for John Dillinger inc changing the caliber to 38 super as a better round against the then body armour. Apprently he did a couple of these Luger conversions as well.
Stands to reason,plenty of them went to the US as war souviners,and they were cheap and cheerful semi auto carbines.Where even back then forking out 300 dollars for a full auto Thompson,must have made even Al Capone sweat in tooling up his gang. So something like this was a good alternative...But how it got to Ireland and where and when it was used in our history is the bigger untold story.

Heckler

Ok. Got the lock out. No sign of obvious damage. Pics on the way if ye could take a look.

Heckler

Sorry. Heres the rest.

Heckler

Aahh I think i got it. These fellas are shorn off yeah ?

bmc58

CJhaughey wrote: »

Try giving the safe a rattle with either your fist or a rubber mallet while you are working the lock gently with the key, vibrations can often allow the key to turn when friction will jam it

WD 40 works wonders in similar situations.

Heckler

Heckler wrote: »

Aahh I think i got it. These fellas are shorn off yeah ?

Nope. They're the levers. So its a 6 lever lock. Learning on youtube.

Uinseann_16

Heckler wrote: »

Nope. They're the levers. So its a 6 lever lock. Learning on youtube.

if the key is double sided could be a 11 lever:pac:

Lock seems low enough quality tbh its not a sealed unit

Heckler

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

if the key is double sided could be a 11 lever:pac:

Lock seems low enough quality tbh its not a sealed unit

I'd imagine its not a great lock at but I'd like to figure out whats gone wrong. I think the key isn't catching the talon to move the bolt. Both keys are identical though. Nothing chipped or broken off. Maybe the talon is worn down.

Uinseann_16

Heckler wrote: »

I'd imagine its not a great lock at but I'd like to figure out whats gone wrong. I think the key isn't catching the talon to move the bolt. Both keys are identical though. Nothing chipped or broken off. Maybe the talon is worn down.

So when you turn it youre not getting full contact?
If i were you id go onto reddit and go to the lockpicking section ( r/Lockpicking )and give some pics and your issue
You will find people with much more knowledge than myself

JP22

Can't see any grease.??

Grease up all the moving parts and see if that allows the lock to operate.

Heckler

Doused it in 3 in 1. I'm sure its fecked. My problem now is finding the same lock. Specific nut holes/spacing. Suppose can drill new ones if needed. Got quoted 120 for a locksmith call out ex VAT plus any repairs and/or the cost of a new lock.

Be cheaper to buy a new safe.

Grizzly 45

Heckler wrote: »

Aahh I think i got it. These fellas are shorn off yeah ?

To my untrained eye.They look totally out of alignment to the levers, and should by rights be actually sitting on them to give resistance when the key is turned? This might have been your initial problem,they wouldnt allow the lock to function due to them jamming against these springs not sitting on the levers properly.
Contact the safes distributors/maker and ask them for a replacement lock?

JP22

check out locks on line.co.uk

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

To my untrained eye.They look totally out of alignment to the levers, and should by rights be actually sitting on them to give resistance when the key is turned?

Thinking the same, and i also know feck all about it.

Seems like the key is only turning some of the levers. IOW engaging with only say two or three meaning the lock is still held.

Is there anyway to disassemble the unit, straighten each lever/pin, and then reassemble. At this point you've nothing to lose so might be worthwhile.

Done the same with my back door. Was having issues and when i knew it was a fix or replace i took it apart. A spring had worked itself loose and stopped working so i took the unit apart, tightened up everything, and reassembled. Works fine now.

Heckler

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

To my untrained eye.They look totally out of alignment to the levers, and should by rights be actually sitting on them to give resistance when the key is turned? This might have been your initial problem,they wouldnt allow the lock to function due to them jamming against these springs not sitting on the levers properly.
Contact the safes distributors/maker and ask them for a replacement lock?

No info on the makers but have found a distributor in Ireland so will drop them a line.

JP22 wrote: »

check out locks on line.co.uk

Will do. Thanks.

Cass wrote: »

Thinking the same, and i also know feck all about it.

Seems like the key is only turning some of the levers. IOW engaging with only say two or three meaning the lock is still held.

Is there anyway to disassemble the unit, straighten each lever/pin, and then reassemble. At this point you've nothing to lose so might be worthwhile.

Done the same with my back door. Was having issues and when i knew it was a fix or replace i took it apart. A spring had worked itself loose and stopped working so i took the unit apart, tightened up everything, and reassembled. Works fine now.

I was in touch with a locksmiths and will probably drop it in to them to see if it can be repaired. Its possible from what I can see to disassemble the unit but I might make a balls of it completely and put it beyond repair so might hold off doing that tempting and all as it is to try...

From all the websites I've looked up I've not seen any locks that look like my one. Typical :rolleyes:

tudderone

I wouldn't bother repairing the thing, chuck it in the bin and buy a new one, just use it as a pattern to check against the new one. Do a search on ebay, not the irish one, there is nothing on it. But the UK or German one.

Heckler

I'm thinking I might disassemble it and have a go myself. The research I've done seems to suggest theres nothing too complicated going on inside. While it should be easily replacable normally, most I've seen are rectangular while mine is square so the mounting holes wouldn't align. This is the closest I've found so far that might fit the bill.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gunsafe-Cabinet-Brattonsound-Sentinal-Plus-Deadlock-7-Lever-Replacement-Lock/283881937738?hash=item4218ae9b4a:g:vsgAAOSwSQxewazT

tudderone

Heckler wrote: »

I'm thinking I might disassemble it and have a go myself. The research I've done seems to suggest theres nothing too complicated going on inside. While it should be easily replacable normally, most I've seen are rectangular while mine is square so the mounting holes wouldn't align. This is the closest I've found so far that might fit the bill.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gunsafe-Cabinet-Brattonsound-Sentinal-Plus-Deadlock-7-Lever-Replacement-Lock/283881937738?hash=item4218ae9b4a:g:vsgAAOSwSQxewazT

A few minutes with a small round file or a die grinder would get the holes aligned.