RobMc59 wrote: » If you can't work it out for yourself:the population of the UK is approximately 65 million. The population of England is approximately 55 million.Now I've told you that I assume you can do the mathematics yourself.btw,I'm unhappy about brexit but that's democracy.
downcow wrote: » Here we go again Tom. Let’s talk nonsense and hope that many people who do not understand but accepted as fact. What do you think is the go to flag for the Catholic Rory McIlroy?
downcow wrote: » Why is there a male council and why do they take many of their own decisions?
downcow wrote: » I don’t understand your point. Surely every region of ROI is subservient to the Irish Parliament? Is that not what being part of a democracy means. Now of course Northern Ireland and Scotland have certain devolved powers
downcow wrote: » I think we have done that one to death and all agreed that the island of Ireland was never united except under British rule. So more nonsense
Junkyard Tom wrote: » Ireland as a nation has been here for centuries and will be here for centuries more. By the threat of mass terrorism your forefathers crafted unionist/Protestant ethno-statelet out of the Irish nation 100 years ago. That will come to an end and the vast majority of former Unionists will come back to the Irish nation and will see themselves as fully Irish only with British heritage.
Junkyard Tom wrote: » My vision for a UI is quite broad, if people decided to have a sort of devolved-from-Dublin region then it wouldn't bother me. No they don't. Unionists have a flag from the times of their rotten one-party Protestant statelet that they cling to as a reminder of their once-dominant past.
Fionn1952 wrote: » 'Make their own decisions' is a fairly large simplification of Devolution, Rob. Mayo, for example, have their own flag and Mayo County Council makes it's own decisions on certain things. The question is should NI continue to be devolved should a majority in the place not wish that to be the case? If so, why? Just as a fop to Unionists who are unwilling to accept the outcome of a referendum.....an outcome which has been a known possibility for over 20 years? I've said before, I'm not in favour of a devolved NI within Ireland, but I could be convinced on it to some extent, but there would need to be some reason beyond blatant Hibernophobia, which is the only justification Downcow has been able to give so far.
FrancieBrady wrote: » It's an incredible blindspot with people from the UK I find. They'll climb onto an ivory tower of their 'democracy and inclusiveness' when it is in fact a class based monarchy were the regions or component countries are entirely subservient to an English parliament. There is a massive truth in the England out of Ireland banner if you look at the 'UK' without the blinkers. Denying the devolved countries access to the Brexit negotiations put the tin hat on it.
downcow wrote: » Francie it has been one unit for 100 years by the wishes of the majority living in it. Which is 100 years more than the island of Ireland has been one unit by the wishes of the majority living in it
Fionn1952 wrote: » I don't know if you're asking a rhetorical question, or if you genuinely don't know the modus operandi of people like Downcow. Some people in the North never got past the fact that it's not exclusively their dominion to do with as they please. The idea of a democratically decided future for the North is fantastic so long as it lines up with their wants.....the second that changes, well we only have to look at Downcow's own admission that he would try to, but could not guarantee he would remain peaceful. Fortunately he isn't representative of the majority of Unionists, despite his insistence to the contrary.
FrancieBrady wrote: » It doesn't conform to any variation of the meaning...it was never 'one unit' either, it failed precisely because it created two societies and an artificial majority that Unionism completely usurped and twisted until it went up in the flames it did.
RobMc59 wrote: » Your vision of a UI
NI have their own flag
RobMc59 wrote: » At the end of the day,mary lou primping infront of that ridiculous banner was cringeworthy even to a British person.I feel sorry for those of you who support SF having her at the helm.
jm08 wrote: » About 50% of the population of NI have their own flag and anthem. Its not agreed. Explain how Scotland and NI are being dragged out of the EU against their wishes if they make their own decisions please. They don't even get any input into negotiating the trade deals.
jm08 wrote: » Explain how Scotland and NI are being dragged out of the EU against their wishes if they make their own decisions please. They don't even get any input into negotiating the trade deals.
RobMc59 wrote: » Your vision of a UI isn't much of an incentive Tom if you don't mind me saying.NI have their own flag and make their own decisions currently as do all countries within the UK.
Junkyard Tom wrote: » Who is us? Because nationalists, and others, who'd just voted to end British jurisdiction would find you guys trying to wheedle them back into some sort of neo-norn-iron absolutely hilarious.
downcow wrote: » A devolved Northern Ireland would allow us to have our own flag and anthem in the same way as Scotland do within the UK. It would allow us to have different rules around Irish language, etc. I could go on and on.
jm08 wrote: » . Would the flag and anthem be an agreed one for all the people of NI or would it be just one for those who consider themselves British? Would nationalists who live in NI (now the majority) have a say?
downcow wrote: » You’ve gone off on one. And you have taken the wrong definition of integrity. I was talking about keeping something in one piece as one unit
FrancieBrady wrote: » 'Integrity of Northern Ireland'???? Jaysus. It is an abject failure since partition. It requires the vigilance of two sovereign governments to constantly monitor it under the auspices of an Agreement lodged in the UN. Integrity? It has zero integrity. It failed.
FrancieBrady wrote: » No he/she isn't, he/she is clearly quoting you talking about 'Unionists' in that post...this is just more back tracking from something you said downcow.
downcow wrote: » I honestly don’t know what you’re asking me. I have no desire for a devolved Northern Ireland within a united island, because I am completely opposed to a united island.
I was asked what I thought loyalist terrorists may have as their objectives in the event of a united Ireland. I was stating that they may look on a devolved Northern Ireland as a method of increasing autonomy as they would drive towards a separate state.
I would be pushing hard for separate institutions, maintaining national teams in the sports that they currently exist in and pushing for an increase in sports in which Northern Ireland would be represented.
A devolved Northern Ireland would allow us to have our own flag and anthem in the same way as Scotland do within the UK. It would allow us to have different rules around Irish language, etc. I could go on and on.
downcow wrote: » I honestly don’t know what you’re asking me. I have no desire for a devolved Northern Ireland within a united island, because I am completely opposed to a united island. I was asked what I thought loyalist terrorists may have as their objectives in the event of a united Ireland. I was stating that they may look on a devolved Northern Ireland as a method of increasing autonomy as they would drive towards a separate state. If you are asking me, in a hypothetical GFA vote for a united island, why I would prefer a devolved Northern Ireland within it? There are lots of reasons which I think I outlined in previous posts, but the number one reason is to keep the integrity of Northern Ireland as much as is possible. I would be pushing hard for separate institutions, maintaining national teams in the sports that they currently exist in and pushing for an increase in sports in which Northern Ireland would be represented. A devolved Northern Ireland would allow us to have our own flag and anthem in the same way as Scotland do within the UK. It would allow us to have different rules around Irish language, etc. I could go on and on.
jm08 wrote: » You didn't say ''devolved ni within ROI''. You said: ''Firstly I would absolutely disagree with Unionists replicating the IRA sectarian murder campaign. It got the IRA nowhere and caused horrific grief. I guess their initial request would be for a devolved NI within a united Ireland - same as nationalists had when they were in the UK. But that is just a guess'' Can you just answer the question - Why would you/unionists want a devolved NI within a UI when it would mean unionists would be the in the minority with nationalists/republicans in this devolved NI?
