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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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marketty

slave1 wrote: »

LOL, Nissan have had a (short range) 7 seater EV option for years

So they do! That's news to me! Is there many of them around?

Old diesel

eagerv wrote: »

An article from todays Irish Times:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/customers-are-very-confused-motor-dealer-outlines-ev-reality-1.4325939

The implications from a dealer that EVs are only suitable for low mileage rural users and city dwellers.

Saw that earlier.

For me its a lazy dealer who doesn't want to be doing with the "hassle" of selling EVs or explaining them.

For me a decent dealer should work to address any confusion a customer may have by giving helpful factual info on the options.

Finding out what the customer actually does driving wise would seem VERY sensible.

Because if you bother to find out the customers needs you might be able to give them guidance that directs the customer to cars that meet budget.

The Euro 7 ICE guff is just that - GUFF - no one yet knows what a Euro 7 car looks like in terms off....

1) final production solutions.

2) cost.

3) problem areas from extra complexity.

My own personal suspicion is that the challenges of EVs in terms of charging will be more surmountable then issues with Euro 7.

Every new Euro number from Euro 3 onwards emissions has bought us extra challenges on reliability.

If your man is correct - Euro 7 is going to take the biscuit in terms of challenges.

slave1

We gotta trust this lad and everything he says, VW dealer and we can all trust VW

Old diesel

What Mr dealer also forgets is that if EVs really cause an issue by 2028....

The laws can be further amended in various ways.

So certain user groups might be allowed continued access to ICE vehicles brand new post 2030....

Farmers 4 x 4s for example.....

Or the ban could be postponed.

But hey i know I know - let me have a rant with the Irish times instead

unkel

Euro 6 proved impossible without cheating. But sure Euro 7 is going to be fine. What comes out of that diesel exhaust pipe is totally clean, honest!

graememk

Old diesel wrote: »

What Mr dealer also forgets is that if EVs really cause an issue by 2028....

The laws can be further amended in various ways.

So certain user groups might be allowed continued access to ICE vehicles brand new post 2030....

Farmers 4 x 4s for example.....

Or the ban could be postponed.

But hey i know I know - let me have a rant with the Irish times instead .

We currently have a 141 (flip it's 6 already) VW amarok,
on the farm. It stays fairly clean as all the dirty jobs is done by the JD gator.

Prob would be looking to change it say.. 8 years time.

Our milage on it is low. And if there was an electric version (doesn't need to be vw) would have no problem changing.

We do have a tri axle livestock trailer but if we actually fill it, it's overloaded. All well and good until someone pulls out and hits you then the **** hits the fan.

The farest we personally would go on it would be about an 1ish hrs away, any further we try to take a car, as it's not that easy on diesel.

Anyways rambling, the 2030 is for new vehicles, and if there is electric versions of every car/Jeep/pickup by then it won't be an issue.

Father is really interested in an ev esp now that he's seeing our savings on fuel, just have to either wait for a Passat (estate) like car to come out or get my mum convinced to get a smaller car! (They both golf so the golf bags comes with them when looking at cars)

Edit: in addition, to that article here's another one from the same carbon alliance
https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-40029842.html

Vrt is hurting car sales because of all the imports, and say that they have to sell ice vehicles because they can't make enough EVs

innrain

MG 5 was announced for the end of the year in UK. Pretty interesting for those who golf
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-mg-5-electric-estate-headed-uk-214-mile-range

Kramer

graememk wrote: »

Edit: in addition, to that article here's another one from the same carbon alliance
https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-40029842.html

From that "article":

"New cars in 2021 with internal combustion engines (ICE) will emit 28% less CO2 than the average car currently on Irish roads, so for every car we replace with a newer cleaner car, we can achieve significant reductions. Motorists should be encouraged to purchase newer cars — it would be a win-win for everyone."

There you have it, motor dealers' lobby group, just set up, lobbying for tax reductions so they can sell more ICE (mostly diesel), cars.

They can't even wait until January next year, when UK imports will naturally cease. The budget is October?
Got to get in there & lobby quick - lots of diesels on the forecourts to shift :rolleyes:.

AndyBoBandy

...When you leave your house at 100%, drive 665 km's, and return the following day on 65%, without spending a single cent on charging....

(5 charging stops: 2 Superchargers (using free referral km's), 2 Hotel Destination charges, 1 visit to the (still) free eCars 150kW).

Great Success!!

MJohnston

Lucid Air luxury sedan test showed an estimated EPA range of 830km:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2020/08/11/the-all-electric-lucid-air-gets-an-estimated-epa-range-of-517-miles/amp/

slave1

Impressive

KCross

I presume a 100kWh+ battery?

MJohnston

I think it's using a 75kWh AND a 130kWh, judging by the (uncited) Wikipedia entry

Black_Knight

https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2020/08/android-for-cars.html

Plug share coming up Android auto. Zg3409 you've worked so hard towards this moment.

Could make finding and navigating to your nearest charge point much easier

graememk

Black_Knight wrote: »

https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2020/08/android-for-cars.html

Plug share coming up Android auto. Zg3409 you've worked so hard towards this moment.

Could make finding and navigating to your nearest charge point much easier

Seen that, Is it out now or still coming soon?

Black_Knight

graememk wrote: »

Seen that, Is it out now or still coming soon?

Not even coming soon. Sounds like they're starting to work with these developers now.

liamog

The first policy move that might actually help our governments target to end new ICE sales by 2030.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/aug/13/moderate-tories-join-greens-to-call-for-fossil-fuel-car-ban-by-2030

KCross

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40033535.html

They are saying the right things and it does of course make sense to have more rapids in current fuel stations as they see the potential for shop sales while the car is charging, so all that make sense.... i wonder is it a wolf in sheeps clothing though!

Snippet:

We’re big cheerleaders for EVs, because the longer people spend on the forecourt charging, the more they will spend inside. You make €1 profit on every €50 of diesel, but you could make double that on a coffee.

"How fast we can implement electric charging depends on the infrastructure needed to deal with them. We genuinely want to get them in, we would like to see the State and the electricity authorities to be more helpful in getting these things moving quickly. It is actually one of the largest blockages to increase the networks on our forecourts."

Busman Paddy Lasty

Re wolf in sheep's clothing, there was plenty of references to hydrogen and hydrogen fuelling stations.

KCross

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Re wolf in sheep's clothing, there was plenty of references to hydrogen and hydrogen fuelling stations.

Thats exactly what I was thinking when I said wolf in sheeps clothing.... they need to keep that fuel flowing! Hydrogen would suit them down to the ground and the government too actually but I think that ship has sailed.

Busman Paddy Lasty

KCross wrote: »

Thats exactly what I was thinking when I said wolf in sheeps clothing.... they need to keep that fuel flowing! Hydrogen would suit them down to the ground and the government too actually but I think that ship has sailed.

Hopefully that ship has sailed. The costs involved in building a hydrogen network should act as a deterrent to even starting going down that route. Expanding the grid is a far more elegant solution.

Pretty good dig against the ESB there by your man too.

liamog

"How fast we can implement electric charging depends on the infrastructure needed to deal with them. We genuinely want to get them in, we would like to see the State and the electricity authorities to be more helpful in getting these things moving quickly. It is actually one of the largest blockages to increase the networks on our forecourts."

This bit does make sense, some of the delays we've seen (such as Ionity and eCars) waiting on ESB networks to upgrade a site are shocking.

innrain

Just as reference
Found these guys who are selling ABB DC 24kW for €10k with both types of plugs. Cheaper with just one.
https://chargingshop.eu/product-category/dc-chargers/
Also they have the etrel AC poles used by easygo and the ABB units used by Ionity
Their prices are backed up by another source from AT https://www.da-emobil.com/produkte.php

here ESB networks connection charges.
It's complex to determine pricing for high demand but fow the low side of things we can estimate some costs. For example for 44kW 3phase connection charge is €3.8k while for 50kW is €5k.

liamog

Seen on Facebook, when EV chargers and bike lanes collide

ELM327

innrain wrote: »

Just as reference
Found these guys who are selling ABB DC 24kW for €10k with both types of plugs. Cheaper with just one.
https://chargingshop.eu/product-category/dc-chargers/
Also they have the etrel AC poles used by easygo and the ABB units used by Ionity
Their prices are backed up by another source from AT https://www.da-emobil.com/produkte.php

here ESB networks connection charges.
It's complex to determine pricing for high demand but fow the low side of things we can estimate some costs. For example for 44kW 3phase connection charge is €3.8k while for 50kW is €5k.

Very interesting
https://chargingshop.eu/product/30-kw-dc-wallbox-ccs2-3g-rfid-wi-fi/

8k for a 30kW CCS charger. Input is 400v 3phase AC so youd have a small cost to upgrade to 3 phase at home. Would be convenient to have at home if y ou have multiple EVs

AndyBoBandy

Not sure how keen I'd be to always be DC charging an EV (even at a lowly rate of 30kW).

Although win the euromillions on Friday, and yeah, all bets are off. I'll have a few DC chargers installed in my 6-8 car garage for my fleet of EV's

ELM327

DC charging at 30kW is as bad as AC charging at 22kW.
DC is only "bad" because of high C rates. 30kW into my S90D is likely to be about 0.37C

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

Very interesting
https://chargingshop.eu/product/30-kw-dc-wallbox-ccs2-3g-rfid-wi-fi/

8k for a 30kW CCS charger. Input is 400v 3phase AC so youd have a small cost to upgrade to 3 phase at home. Would be convenient to have at home if y ou have multiple EVs

As their literature states...

... you get best solution for shopping malls, office parkings and other public parkings lots with high car turnover.

Thats where they need to go. If Aldi/Lidl/Tesco put those in, it would be ideal.

Cant see them being used in any domestic scenarios though (unless you are of the multi-millionaire category).... it would eat the majority of any 3ph import limit you're likely to have in a house.... it would leave nothing for the sauna or swimming pool!

garo

Just get yourself a 100 solar PV panels. Surely there will be enough space on your mansion roof for that.

[Deleted User]

Maybe some day we'll have ev's with generators be they fuel cell or some form of synthetic biofuel, with a 64 kwh battery fuel consumption would be minuscule but the benefits of on board generator are huge and you wouldn't have all the nonsense of these chargers or lack of, broken, in use, queues etc.