2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

If you really want to see the kind of scum Trump and those in his admistration are just have a look at immigration nation on Netflix. 3yr olds separated from parents and locked in cages for months, a young girl who watched her mother murdered separated from her father for 8 months, a grandmother who sought asylum in the US, for her and her granddaughter as the drug gangs threatened to take the granddaughter and kill the grandmother, locked in a cage for 18 months. ICE agents revelling in the suffering of others.
Yes there needs to be controls and consequences for illegal immigration but that's just barbaric stuff. If the US invested as much time and money helping the countries these people come from as they do tackling the problem then they wouldn't have an immigration issue. Anyone who watches that and doesn't think Trump is a sick fcuk needs a serious look in the mirror.

threeball wrote: »

If the US invested as much time and money helping the countries these people come from.

Why should they? Genuine question.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Why should they? Genuine question.

I already outlined why they should. By investing they'll reduce immigration, improve these peoples lives rather than being the massive negative effect they currently are and create a supply chain for cheaper goods that the US craves and are currently relying on China for.

Nevermind we've done a fair amount to destabilize those regions.

Overheal wrote: »

Nevermind we've done a fair amount to destabilize those regions.

And continue to do so. The drugs gangs that ravage those countries exist because of the US. The guns and weapons they use are supplied by the US. The climate change that is badly affecting those countries has been driven by the US and other developed countries

Overheal wrote: »

Nevermind we've done a fair amount to destabilize those regions.

Would that be thanks to President Trump or his predecessors?

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Would that be thanks to President Trump or his predecessors?

Both.

Timberrrrrrrr

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Would that be thanks to President Trump or his predecessors?

Every president/government for near enough the last twenty years

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Every president/government for near enough the last twenty years

Would you say Jo Biden is fairly responsible? He's been in government longer than Trump

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Would you say Jo Biden is fairly responsible? He's been in government longer than Trump

They're all responsible, Trump just took it up a notch by stripping kids from their parents as a deterent. I'm not surprised you see nothing wrong with that however.

Timberrrrrrrr

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Would you say Jo Biden is fairly responsible? He's been in government longer than Trump

Every president/government for near enough the last twenty years

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Every president/government for near enough the last twenty years

Oh it goes back much further than that, the 1979 Iranian revolution that took the country from being quite progressive to where it is today for example was a direct response to the US puppet Shah who they had put in by force in 1953 over their democratically elected Prime Minister.

Part of the reason Mao had such an ardent following is because the US were giving military support to the opposition during the late 1940s and early 1950s.

The list goes on for dozens of countries, in what might be the greatest speed run of interference in other nations affairs of any empire in world history. The Cold War was little more than a race to destabilize as much of the world in as wreck reckless a manner as possible - all that really mattered was that they didn't take the other's side.

It has perhaps been more noticeable in the years since, as the 'excuse' that was the Cold War was gone. But as we have seen, neither country has changed their stripes much and still view other nations as merely pawns that do not deserve respect nor a chance at stability. Russia went quiet in the 90s though mostly because it was a broken nation, ever since Putin came in they've kicked it right back up.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Every president/government for near enough the last twenty years

So Jo Biden is partially responsible for the mess President Trump is trying to fix re. illegal immigration.

threeball wrote: »

They're all responsible, Trump just took it up a notch by stripping kids from their parents as a deterent. I'm not surprised you see nothing wrong with that however.

I don't see anything wrong with it. If a person breaks the law with their child in tow, then they are responsible for the separation. Remember, these laws were brought in by previous administrations, the Trump admin is simply enforcing them. He was mandated with a strong anti illegal immigration vote.

Bonniedog

Trump now 6/4. Backed him at 2/1 and might pile in again.

Fill your boots.

rossie1977

Kidchameleon wrote: »

So Jo Biden is partially responsible for the mess President Trump is trying to fix re. illegal immigration.

I don't see anything wrong with it. If a person breaks the law with their child in tow, then they are responsible for the separation. Remember, these laws were brought in by previous administrations, the Trump admin is simply enforcing them. He was mandated with a strong anti illegal immigration vote.

Trump isn't trying to fix anything

The vast majority of people that become illegal immigrants enter the US on a plane not walk across the border.

Trump is only interested in the Hispanic immigrants because he needs an enemy in order to sell his agenda.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

So Jo Biden is partially responsible for the mess President Trump is trying to fix re. illegal immigration.

I don't see anything wrong with it. If a person breaks the law with their child in tow, then they are responsible for the separation. Remember, these laws were brought in by previous administrations, the Trump admin is simply enforcing them. He was mandated with a strong anti illegal immigration vote.

I knew you wouldn't. It says alot about you. Committing the major crime of trying to survive should see families ripped apart. And no these rules weren't in position from previous administrations. More bluffing on your part.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Every president/government for near enough the last twenty years

Over a century at least. Panama canal etc.

threeball wrote: »

I knew you wouldn't. It says alot about you.

Enough of the personal attacks. It says I have a conservative mindset & there's nothing wrong with that.

threeball wrote: »

And no these rules weren't in position from previous administrations. More bluffing on your part.

Its very rude to assume I'm bluffing. I could be simply mistaken. Look up "operation streamline". All of the provisions were introduced 10 years ago, they were simply not enforced by Bush and Obama. Remember, Trump was asked by the electorate to cut down on illegal immigration. Also remember, the people illegally crossing the border with children are doing so in full knowledge, they are responsible for whatever outcome befalls them and their children. It is President Trumps job ultimately to make sure the law is followed.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

So Jo Biden is partially responsible for the mess President Trump is trying to fix re. illegal immigration.

Funny, illegal immigration numbers went down during every single year Biden was Vice President, as they had been since Bush Jr's last year or two in office. Beyond the fact that Biden was VP and not president, you could probably not have picked a worse 8 year span in terms of illegal immigration.

Now in terms of contribution to global stabilization, if that was your argument then Trump is not trying to 'fix' anything, and is actively making it even worse. Trump has been actively piling on here himself over the last 3.5 years with the Yemeni crisis (which he personally vetoed a bipartisan congressional vote to end), outright murdering political figurehead of other nations (Iran), absurd failed coup attempts (Venezuela), the threatening to withhold foreign aid to countries unwilling to completely make up investigations against political rivals (Ukraine), the bombing of foreign airbases (Syria), and the mass escalation of drone strikes in the middle East (to the point the Trump admin just stopped reporting on them). And those are just of the examples from someone who lied about being "non interventionist" and an "isolationist" back in 2016.

I don't see anything wrong with it. If a person breaks the law with their child in tow, then they are responsible for the separation. Remember, these laws were brought in by previous administrations, the Trump admin is simply enforcing them. He was mandated with a strong anti illegal immigration vote.

To be frank, the sheer amount of times it has been pointed out that this wasn't the case, plus the Trump administration openly bragging on TV about how they brought in the forcible separation of children themselves when they did just that, and the sheer excitement among Trumps base about this "get tough" method at the time it was introduced, makes it kind of difficult for anyone still trying to hammer on about this to be taken seriously at face value anymore.

The Obama administration imposed the shameful use of these facilities for unaccompanied minors who had no family/contacts in the US or who they could not find foster options for, as a last result.

The Trump administration, specifically John Kelly and 'race replacement' obsessed white supremacists like Stephen Miller that Trump keeps so close, took one look at that and decided that they loved it so much that they would instead impose it on every migrant child they could at the border, whether they were with parents or had any friends or contacts in the US or not. And now with thousands of children being shoved into concentration camps, hundreds have suffered extreme trauma, died, or just flat out 'gone missing' (which you might note, is quite hard to do of your own volition while in a detention center).

I really, really do hope you were somehow unaware of the above, because otherwise you have literally resorted to lying about abused, dead and trafficked children in order to troll and sh*tpost. If you were aware, maybe you should stop and consider what you're doing and what it says about you.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Enough of the personal attacks. It says I have a conservative mindset & there's nothing wrong with that.

Its very rude to assume I'm bluffing. I could be simply mistaken. Look up "operation streamline". All of the provisions were introduced 10 years ago, they were simply not enforced by Bush and Obama. Remember, Trump was asked by the electorate to cut down on illegal immigration. Also remember, the people illegally crossing the border with children are doing so in full knowledge, they are responsible for whatever outcome befalls them and their children. It is President Trumps job ultimately to make sure the law is followed.

Ha, I thought family first was at the heart of conservatism. It certainly doesn't advocate tearing a family apart. Pick them up, stick them on a bus back to Mexico, Honduras or wherever. What's gained by separating a parent and a traumatised child for 8 months. Its sick, and people that support it are sick.

Carfacemandog wrote: »

I really, really do hope you were somehow unaware of the above, because otherwise you have literally resorted to lying about abused, dead and trafficked children in order to troll and sh*tpost. If you were aware, maybe you should stop and consider what you're doing and what it says about you.

Not aware & shall endeavor to read up on the situation, thanks.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Not aware & shall endeavor to read up on the situation, thanks.

Yet you support the process. Maybe you should read up on alot of matters before you post. It seems you wade in on and support a hell of alot without having the first clue what's actually going on.

threeball wrote: »

Yet you support the process. Maybe you should read up on alot of matters before you post. It seems you wade in on and support a hell of alot without having the first clue what's actually going on.

I'm pretty sure it is you who is not aware of what is going on. I will read up on the situation in order to understand all viewpoints.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Not aware & shall endeavor to read up on the situation, thanks.

No problem and here you are, John Kelly who brought it in talking about the differences between what happened under Obama and what he introduced under Trump.

“Yes, I am considering, in order to deter more movement along this terribly dangerous network, I am considering exactly that [separating children from their parents] ,” he said. “They will be well cared for as we deal with their parents.”

jamule

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Enough of the personal attacks. It says I have a conservative mindset & there's nothing wrong with that.

How the fook does supporting trump tie into a conservative mindset. He is the antithesis of a conservative.

Biden sure seems to be spry and witty for an old fellow

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1292134017807126528?s=20

Rumors of his decline seem greatly exaggerated. And Peter Doocy apparently doesn't understand jokes.

Trump meanwhile can - counterbalance a lot of weight while seated.

Timberrrrrrrr

Trump tweeted

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1292190319845478402?s=19

Anyone know what it's about?

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Trump tweeted

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1292190319845478402?s=19

Anyone know what it's about?

1)

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/watch-live-president-trump-holds-news-conference-at-bedminster-2/

2)

https://www.mediaite.com/donald-trump/trump-signs-coronavirus-relief-executive-orders-after-negotiations-fail/

3)

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/trump-abruptly-leaves-coronavirus-eo-signing-after-facing-onslaught-of-questions-is-this-political-theater/

I'd say all but the EO for deferring loan repayments will work as advertised, and any deferral of payroll taxes will just piss people off next spring when they file and have either no expected refund or a liability.

TLDR if this is anything like previous shutdowns etc. Trump didn't want to sign something the Democrats wanted or that the Republicans agreed to, because of his toxic narcissism he wants to be seen this close to election being a lone savior or something. It will probably backfire but who knows.

[Deleted User]

So I'm guessing we're gonna hear the vp choice within the next 24 hours or so?