downcow wrote: » Francie, do you ever ever answer a question.
feargale wrote: » Forget Sinn Féin and the IRA for a moment. Give us your take on John Hume.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Of course you don't because you would be admitting to talking rubbish. It makes no sense to believe both at selective times.
jm08 wrote: » Which was: Do you want to be in a devolved part of the UK? If voted for in a referendum, I'd accept it. Is there not a distinction between NI nationalists and NI unionists who have different wants and needs? How would you propose to deal with them now that unionists would be in a minority? Equality is guaranteed in the Irish Constitution. If you feel hard done by, you can take the Irish Government to Court over it. Ireland is signed up to the ECHR etc. As for changing the name of places - that could be handled democratically by residents of the area (as well as Irish language signage etc).
downcow wrote: » Help me. I don't see the slightest contradiction in this statement?
downcow wrote: » I appreciate your honesty Francie that Irish government do not have power over us. The rest of you post is nonsense particularly that unionists opposed gfa from start. I am a unionist and I voted yes so you are patently wrong
downcow wrote: » You didn't answer my question?
But our peoples have lived apart for 100 years. We are quite distinct now. Even just practically around culture, needs, wants, we are diverse.
Also we currently equality proof any changes in NI. That would surely continue and I don't think that it should be imposed on the rest of Ireland. eg if you wanted to rename Londonderry it would need equality proofed to see we were ok with it :-)
jm08 wrote: » I understand that you don't want a UI, but in the event of a UI (democractially voted for in a referendum) you said you would be looking for a devolved NI/Ulster within a UI. I just want to understand why you would want that as it would mean you would be in a minority in this devolved Assembly.
downcow wrote: » Oh I don't want to be in a devolved entity within a united island. Do you want to be in a devolved part of the UK?
FrancieBrady wrote: » The IRA that was so heavily infiltrated it was defeated argument, when it suits, and the IRA that is still operating and pulling the strings in Sinn Fein when that argument suits. Do us a favour downcow...convene a meeting of Unionists and get the story straight will you...it has long since become a stale pivot point for a weak weak argument. Trimble trotting it out is just pathetic.
jm08 wrote: » Well, I for one am delighted that unionists have lost nothing from the GFA. It was meant to be win-win for everyone. Now, can you tell me why you would want to be in a devolved Government as a minority party in a UI.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Downcow....Unionists opposed the GFA from the start and the DUP have since. Flegs Parades and sharing the same room as Taigs opposed but defeated on because you lost the power to control those things anymore. What you could control - by nefarious use of the petition of concern you were also defeated on when your government went above your heads and gave those righrs. Like a limp blanket you tried to muster reaction to the British imposing a border in the Irish Sea (doing what Republicans knew the GFA would do and what unionists have even said out loud-- nudged NI closer to a UI) but are a beaten docket on that too. We dont need 'power' over you...we know the British will do our bidding. Look what happened when they tried to go off the reservation on Brexit...they conned you guys...not us.
downcow wrote: » I am sure you know that the major opposition to gfa from unionists was the release of convicted killers on both sides. That was hard for innocent victims to take and many could not accept it. It is easier now as they would all be out now anyhow and most did not get involved in violence again. For people like me who voted yes to gfa, knew that the the sf hierarchy needed that (and nice salaries to fund holiday homes) to get this over the line with their pawns. You completely misunderstand the gfa if UI think it contains power sharing. And as for republicans agreeing to sit in a british administration in Stormont - if carlsberg done agreements! The Ira nothing for ‘Ireland’ out of gfa they got holiday homes, feeling of importance administering British rule, and their mates out of prison. .....but then the last time 10 men took their own lives for the cause, the same leaders got MP roles and sharp suits while there foot soldiers got bigger sausage roles and erring their own clothes. You still haven’t told me what great power Irish government have over ni. .....and even that was true, it’s ironic that sf/ira carried out a 30 year sectarian murder campaign to get FF & FG control of ni lol
Junkyard Tom wrote: » Why oh why would Unionists allow themselves to be shoved into power-sharing by the British, and the British allow the IRA out of jails in their hundreds, and former IRA commanders in government, and the IRA Army council directing SF in Stormont if the British had defeated them?You do not treat defeated people the way the British treated SF. I sort of feel sorry for you, you literally can't see Ireland in terms other than victory or defeat. As I've said before you are beyond reason on these issues.
downcow wrote: » I think you must have missed this bit "You can say as many times as you like that the Unionists lost, but we have got absolutely everything that we had 25 years ago, and you have got absolutely nothing that you and the IRA aspired towards."
downcow wrote: » Everyone, except a few old Republicans in dingy bars with several pints taken, realise that they were defeated.
downcow wrote: » I don't know how to do the fancy quotes so I can just list my answers. It is a bit simplistic to say that it was set in 1995. Here is Gerry's IRA boss saying it 20 years later in front of Gerry.s mural https://bostoncollegesubpoena.wordpress.com/2014/05/12/bobby-storey-martin-mcguinness-at-adams-arrestsinn-fein-election-rally-west-belfast
''The reason we are here this afternoon, is because of the surge of Sinn Fein across this island. This is to do with the establishment North & South recognising the development of Sinn Fein across the island. We have a message for the British Government, for the Irish Government, for the cabal that is out there - we ain't gone away you know.
.... And you think this is okay to say. "equality...... - that’s the trojan horse of the entire republican strategy.”
You say it does not matter whether jury was in the IRA not. If Boris had been a paratrooper on bloody Sunday, would you say that was irrelevant when he was making decisions Northern Ireland?
NIMAN wrote: » Can I ask who you mean when you use the term 'yourselves' in this context?
downcow wrote: » Yes you can continue to aspire, and try to lift your self esteem, by trying to convince yourselves that you were in control the process. John Hume was very intelligent and realised that you were defeated but that you needed some sort of face-saving exercise. He didn't get you very much but then he didn't need to because beggars cannot be choosers
downcow wrote: » Wishful thinking I was listening to David Trimble interviewed after John Hume's death- you can pick it up on Nolan on the day of his death on BBC iPlayer. Nolan was affirming John Hume for bringing Sinn Fein along. Trimble said he disagreed and was incredibly clear of two things in response. 1) Sinn Fein had exploited John Hume 2) Sinn Fein and the IRA had reached a point of realising that they could not achieve their ends. He said they were so heavily infiltrated that the vast majority of their cells could not operate. Yes of course I know you will say they pulled off a spectacular in Manchester and maybe one or two others, but it was over, they were defeated, Manchester was the final kicks of a dying ruthless animal. Everyone, except a few old Republicans in dingy bars with several pints taken, realise that they were defeated. They used the John Hume initiative to try and save a little face. You can say as many times as you like that the Unionists lost, but we have got absolutely everything that we had 25 years ago, and you have got absolutely nothing that you and the IRA aspired towards. Yes you can continue to aspire, and try to lift your self esteem, by trying to convince yourselves that you were in control the process. John Hume was very intelligent and realised that you were defeated but that you needed some sort of face-saving exercise. He didn't get you very much but then he didn't need to because beggars cannot be choosers
FrancieBrady wrote: » Like I said...the siege mentality is strongest in those who feel they lost something. And you did lose and are still losing and will continue to lose because you hanker after the sectarian statelet you controlled. Again, your own government had to go above your wee heads to deliver rights to all of the people.
jm08 wrote: » Well, I don't think they had gone away in 1995 when he made that comment.https://www.independent.co.uk/news/ira-has-not-gone-away-adams-warns-ministers-ira-has-not-gone-away-1596152.html The 'bastards' Adams was referring to were bigots and homophobes (which unionism is riddle with but Gregory Campbell in particular here) and they were the ones equality would break. Full quote (read the link for full story) https://www.impartialreporter.com/news/13868873.gerry-adams-on-bigotry-in-unionism-the-point-is-to-break-these-brds/ So, DC, are you afraid of equality? Not sure what your objection is to this is. Civil rights and all that. Who cares if he was or he wasn't? Facts are he was interned twice and was never charged with being a member of the PIRA.https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/gerry-adams-i-was-not-a-member-of-the-ira-i-have-never-disassociated-myself-from-the-ira-and-never-will-until-the-day-i-die-38093014.html
downcow wrote: » Gerry told us what we are dealing with “They haven’t gone away, you know” “We will use equality as a Trojan horse” “We will break the bastards” “Sinn Fein volunteers worked hard to carry on the struggle through setting up residents groups to oppose unionist parades” “I was never in the ira” haha
downcow wrote: » Francie Malloy seems a tad upset (and honest)
[Deleted User] wrote: » Anyone,who believes this, PM me,ive some magic beans for sale
[Deleted User] wrote: » Probably should have changed account there pal
downcow wrote: » Gerry told us what we are dealing with “They haven’t gone away, you know”
“We will use equality as a Trojan horse” “We will break the bastards”
“But what’s the point? The point is to actually break these ba***rds - that’s the point. And what’s going to break them is equality. That’s what’s going to break them - equality. Who could be afraid of equality? Who could be afraid of treating somebody the way you want to be treated. That’s what we need to keep the focus on - that’s the trojan horse of the entire republican strategy.”
“Sinn Fein volunteers worked hard to carry on the struggle through setting up residents groups to oppose unionist parades”
“I was never in the ira” haha
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