Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No it isn't. It is another reason to stay on the side of 'I don't know'.
This is the place where the entire British establishment - from the BA to the judiciary (Widgery) conspired to cover up and blame republicans for Bloody Sunday.
Always be deeply deeply suspicious when there is certitude emanating from certain quarters but not a scintilla of actual evidence capable of convicting.

So the International Monitoring Commission can’t be trusted either. Is that it?

Only the dogmatic Sinn Fein party line on all matters pertaining to the Troubles and their aftermath and their assessment of same is to be believed.

As despicably as the British acted during the conflict they did spend over £200 million in the Bloody Sunday enquiry, eventually released those wrongly imprisoned, like the Birmingham Six and Guilford Four, imprisoned soldiers convicted of murder.

What have the IRA done during this new era of honesty and reconciliation?

Gerry (OC Belfast Brigade) Adams was never a volunteer.

The Northern Bank Robbery - It could have been the Mexicans.

The disappeared - I could have sworn we buried that body around here somewhere.

Paul Quinn- sure everyone knew he had it coming.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

It’s obviously incorrect to state that no one knows who robbed the Northern Bank.

no its not. if they did and could prove it (essential when blaming someone for something) then the y would have made arrests by now. only 16 years like

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So the International Monitoring Commission can’t be trusted either. Is that it?

Only the dogmatic Sinn Fein party line on all matters pertaining to the Troubles and their aftermath and their assessment of same is to be believed.

As despicably as the British acted during the conflict they did spend over £200 million in the Bloody Sunday enquiry, eventually released those wrongly imprisoned, like the Birmingham Six and Guilford Four, imprisoned soldiers convicted of murder.

What have the IRA done during this new era of honesty and reconciliation?

Gerry (OC Belfast Brigade) Adams was never a volunteer.

The Northern Bank Robbery - It could have been the Mexicans.

The disappeared - I could have sworn we buried that body around here somewhere.

Paul Quinn- sure everyone knew he had it coming.

Ah come on, at least tell us what happened prosecution wise after the Bloody Sunday enquiry? And are we really saying it is commendable releasing people after being wrongfully imprisonmened?

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

What have the IRA done during this new era of honesty and reconciliation?

Gerry (OC Belfast Brigade) Adams was never a volunteer.

big deal if he was or not. When are you poor feckers, bitter that you never 'got Gurry' gonna shut up about something that makes no difference to the history of events.
and don't give us the nonsense that it makes a liar out of Adams if it turns out he was in the RA...you think he's a liar any which way.

The Northern Bank Robbery - It could have been the Mexicans.

So show the fecking evidence that makes you so sure.

The disappeared - I could have sworn we buried that body around here somewhere.

I posted the link before to the ICLVR expressing satisfaction with the IRA's attempt to locate those bodies.

Paul Quinn- sure everyone knew he had it coming.

Not sure who has said this in SF or even on here.

Do you believe the IMC when they said that it was 'not unconnected with local criminal activity'?

joeguevara wrote: »

Ah come on, at least tell us what happened prosecution wise after the Bloody Sunday enquiry? And are we really saying it is commendable releasing people after being wrongfully imprisonmened?

Are you really saying it isn’t commendable when innocent people are released from prison?

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Are you really saying it isn’t commendable when innocent people are released from prison?

thats like me chopping your hand off, then handing it back to you saying 'arent you happy I gave you your hand back?' you cant replace the years lost

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Are you really saying it isn’t commendable when innocent people are released from prison?

They were released because of a huge campaign. The British powers knew they were innocent but wouldn’t release them. So, no, i give them absolutely no commendation for ruining those people’s lives.

atticu

maccored wrote: »

the ira taught its people how to rob millions from a bank? Well, Ive learned something new today

Are you asking a question or making a statement?

It seems to be a question as there is a question mark at the end.

You need to direct this question to someone else as I never posted that the IRA taught people to rob banks.

I don’t have a problem if you believe that the IRA taught people how to rob banks, that is a matter for you.

You tried to link what the IRA do with what the Post Office do, and it failed spectacularly.

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

They were released because of a huge campaign. The British powers knew they were innocent but wouldn’t release them. So, no, i give them absolutely no commendation for ruining those people’s lives.

Same as Bloody Sunday, they blamed those who had died and made 40 year victims of the rest of their families as they fought for justice. Great bunch of lads alright.

I would love to see the John Brutonesque hat doffing and servility of Safesurfer become a thing of the past.

jm08

Truthvader wrote: »

Apologies probably my fault for pasting the whole thing in the first place. I wanted to just post a link but the IMC site only allowed me open the attachment. Anyway ends "debate" about what they actually said

And here Vincent Brown in Magill rubished the IMC.

https://magill.ie/archive/independent-monitoring-commission-joke

The report of the Independent Monitoring Commission is an irrelevance. An irrelevance even if any independent credibility could be attached to its findings. On Thursday (10 February) it concluded the IRA was responsible for a series of robberies, including the Northern Bank robbery on 10 December and that senior Sinn Féin people, by which it means Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness, approved of these robberies in advance.

And why he thinks its a joke.

What, conceivably, would community groups, churches, charities, businesses and academics know about responsibility for robberies? Or about whether the Sinn Féin leadership knew or did not know of robberies in advance? What would political parties know in addition to what security forces would tell them? What would journalists know or lawyers or businesses? Private citizens? Families?
The Independent Monitoring Commission is a joke and its findings and doings should be disregarded.

If the IRA did it, they must be planning on spending a huge amount of money on some project, which is what is worrying about it. And if that is true, then the likelihood is that the Sinn Féin leadership (ie Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness) were not in on it either before or after, for any such project would destroy what they have been about for over a decade.

maccored wrote: »

thats like me chopping your hand off, then handing it back to you saying 'arent you happy I gave you your hand back?' you cant replace the years lost

Like saying “aren’t we glad we aren’t shooting and bombing ye any more”.

Do you not believe freeing people, wrongly convicted, is as worthy of commendation as ending a campaign of violence?

Both were wrong. People suffered terribly as a result of both. But only republicans are to be commended for righting a wrong?

Truthvader

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Like saying “aren’t we glad we aren’t shooting and bombing ye any more”.

Do you not believe freeing people, wrongly convicted, is as worthy of commendation as ending a campaign of violence?

Both were wrong. People suffered terribly as a result of both. But only republicans are to be commended for righting a wrong?

To be fair Sinn Fein /IRA couldn't really right a wrong as they murdered people so they can't be "released" as such because they're dead. Cant even remember where the bodies are in some cases. Plus as evidenced here many are prepared to glory in the "armed struggle" to use their preferred euphemism

Have to laugh at the delusional emphasis here on Paul Quinn's murder being "not unconnected to criminality". No ****. Given that the IRA were devoted to criminality what can this actually mean?

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

To be fair Sinn Fein /IRA couldn't really right a wrong as they murdered people so they can't be "released" as such because they're dead. Cant even remember where the bodies are in some cases. Plus as evidenced here many are prepared to glory in the "armed struggle" to use their preferred euphemism

Have to laugh at the delusional emphasis here on Paul Quinn's murder being "not unconnected to criminality". No ****. Given that the IRA were devoted to criminality what can this actually mean?

I don't see anyone glorifying armed struggle. You are in imagination zone again.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=T6cwEEr7&id=57E5F6B5350AAC48C03A15F4DFB6BF1F33F2EB71&thid=OIP.T6cwEEr7TyFsQuzn7Gh-YAHaEK&mediaurl=https%3

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Like saying “aren’t we glad we aren’t shooting and bombing ye any more”.

Do you not believe freeing people, wrongly convicted, is as worthy of commendation as ending a campaign of violence?

Both were wrong. People suffered terribly as a result of both. But only republicans are to be commended for righting a wrong?

You can’t go from ‘arent the U.K. brilliant for spending 200 million on BS inquiry and releasing the Guildford 4 And the IRA can’t do anything’ but when shown how ridiculous that sounds I,e, meaningless inquiry with no prosecutions and knowingly imprisoning innocent, you change to ‘why are the Ira only commended’.

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't see anyone glorifying armed struggle. You are in imagination zone again.

Truthvader wrote: »

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=T6cwEEr7&id=57E5F6B5350AAC48C03A15F4DFB6BF1F33F2EB71&thid=OIP.T6cwEEr7TyFsQuzn7Gh-YAHaEK&mediaurl=https%3

wow - didnt realise people actually used Bing. thats what you're showing us, right?

atticu wrote: »

Are you asking a question or making a statement?

It seems to be a question as there is a question mark at the end.

You need to direct this question to someone else as I never posted that the IRA taught people to rob banks.

I don’t have a problem if you believe that the IRA taught people how to rob banks, that is a matter for you.

You tried to link what the IRA do with what the Post Office do, and it failed spectacularly.

of course its a question. the ira were never trained for multimillion heists

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Like saying “aren’t we glad we aren’t shooting and bombing ye any more”.

Do you not believe freeing people, wrongly convicted, is as worthy of commendation as ending a campaign of violence?

Both were wrong. People suffered terribly as a result of both. But only republicans are to be commended for righting a wrong?

im saying they should never have been wrongly convicted. the people who wrongly convict them dont deserve a prize for eventually releasing them

joeguevara wrote: »

You can’t go from ‘arent the U.K. brilliant for spending 200 million on BS inquiry and releasing the Guildford 4 And the IRA can’t do anything’ but when shown how ridiculous that sounds I,e, meaningless inquiry with no prosecutions and knowingly imprisoning innocent, you change to ‘why are the Ira only commended’.

The bull**** report that was welcomed by the families of the victims of Bloody Sunday and applauded by the people of Derry?

I take it you haven’t read the report. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Maybe Labour MP Harriet Harman was right in saying that the report
“spoke for itself, but that given its length, many groups regrettably would likely be spurred to, and be able to, identify enough in the report to justify a predictable "flogging of traditional hobby horses".

atticu wrote: »

You tried to link what the IRA do with what the Post Office do, and it failed spectacularly.

where did i link 'what the ira do' to what a post office does? You obviously didnt get that at all at all at all. "failed spectacularly" - hahahaha - you were the one doing that.

what I said was if staff in a post office raided a bank , would you blame the post office. of course you wouldnt. If I worked in a shop and robbed another shop, can you blame my employers? Or course you couldnt. therefore if a group of ira people robbed a bank without instruction, you cant blame the IRA. Especially when you cant back the claim up in the first place

Terrible that I actually had to explain that ... i forgot my crayons.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The bull**** report that was welcomed by the families of the victims of Bloody Sunday and applauded by the people of Derry?

I take it you haven’t read the report. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Maybe Labour MP Harriet Harman was right in saying that the report
“spoke for itself, but that given its length, many groups regrettably would likely be spurred to, and be able to, identify enough in the report to justify a predictable "flogging of traditional hobby horses".

Calm down, BS short for Bloody Sunday, you’d try and make anything an argument. I have read the report. I welcomed Mr Cameron apologising. But like Mr. Saville I’m disappointed that it was lip service and hiding perpetrators is still ongoing by the U.K.

joeguevara wrote: »

Calm down, BS short for Bloody Sunday, you’d try and make anything an argument. I have read the report. I welcomed Mr Cameron apologising. But like Mr. Saville I’m disappointed that it was lip service and hiding perpetrators is still ongoing by the U.K.

You have yeah

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You have yeah

It was part of the syllabus when I did my masters in international criminal law in nuig with William schabas as my professor. My thesis was on national liberation armies and their treatment focussing in international humanitarian law. But you got me with the ‘you have yeah’.

joeguevara wrote: »

It was part of the syllabus when I did my masters in international criminal law in nuig with William schabas as my professor. My thesis was on national liberation armies and their treatment focussing in international humanitarian law. But you got me with the ‘you have yeah’.

All 5,000 pages.

Calm down. I believe you.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

All 5,000 pages.

Calm down. I believe you.

Oh the calm down defence. You got me again.

joeguevara wrote: »

It was part of the syllabus when I did my masters in international criminal law in nuig with William schabas as my professor. My thesis was on national liberation armies and their treatment focussing in international humanitarian law. But you got me with the ‘you have yeah’.

That’s very interesting. What year did you publish your thesis?

SafeSurfer wrote: »

That’s very interesting. What year did you publish your thesis?

Would you like to read it or the one on Rules of Evidence in the International Criminal Court. It’s in the library in hard copy for you to read it. It’s a masters as I said, so not a post doctoral thesis. Wouldn’t have been able to hack that.

Truthvader

maccored wrote: »

of course its a question. the ira were never trained for multimillion heists

Just little ones like Adare so?

Deleted User wrote: »

Did saville ever pass comment on the soldiers lying/laughing

Not to my recollection, but i could be wrong but I remember it being illicited in examination. He was particularly critical of obvious lies and cover ups by soldiers examined.