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2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

Beasty

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Timberrrrrrrr

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Have any of Boards Trump defenders passed comment on his Axios interview yet?

not a peep, the most prolific defenders have just abandoned ship, they seem to have finally realised that even they can't defend Trump anymore.

Kidchameleon

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Have any of Boards Trump defenders passed comment on his Axios interview yet?

No point, echo chamber.

Timberrrrrrrr

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Possibly because of the magnitude of the mess his predecessors left. I'm pretty sure Trump didn't promise to MAGA in four years specifically.

What mess did they leave that he has fixed?

No I looked at her other material, she is not funny

As you said, in your opinion.

Timberrrrrrrr

Kidchameleon wrote: »

No point, echo chamber.

Ah here we go :rolleyes:

Kidchameleon

duploelabs wrote: »

The modus operandi from Trump supporters is to argue in bad faith. Am yet to see a substantiated cogent argument from any of you.

So let's start with the Axios interview.

What did you think of it?

Of course, I as a Trump supporter interpreted it differently than many of his opponents. I felt that Swan was not a great interviewer, he had very aggressive body language from the start. He kept banging on about the New York figures and comparing apples with oranges. New York cannot be compared to Japan or South Korea (like Swan was attempting). There are too many variables at play. I personally feel that whilst the pandemic is bad, it is not near as bad as it is being made out to be. Look at Sweden, they are doing great & so is their economy. People need to remember, President Trump has much more to worry about when it comes to lock downs, he has to factor in his economy. If you look at the deaths per million, he is not doing so bad.

There is only so much he can do at a federal level. Look at the states worst effected by the pandemic, many of the are run by democrats! When Trump tried to take action in March to help New York what did Cuomo do??

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-filing-lawsuit-against-trump-administration-over-assault-new-york

Timberrrrrrrr

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Of course, I as a Trump supporter interpreted it differently than many of his opponents. I felt that Swan was not a great interviewer, he had very aggressive body language from the start. He kept banging on about the New York figures and comparing apples with oranges. New York cannot be compared to Japan or South Korea (like Swan was attempting). There are too many variables at play. I personally feel that whilst the pandemic is bad, it is not near as bad as it is being made out to be. Look at Sweden, they are doing great & so is their economy. People need to remember, President Trump has much more to worry about when it comes to lock downs, he has to factor in his economy. If you look at the deaths per million, he is not doing so bad.

There is only so much he can do at a federal level. Look at the states worst effected by the pandemic, many of the are run by democrats! When Trump tried to take action in March to help New York what did Cuomo do??

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-filing-lawsuit-against-trump-administration-over-assault-new-york

Swan: People are dying, 1000 dead a week.

Trump: Yes, people are dying, it is what it is.

Kidchameleon

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Swan: People are dying, 1000 dead a week.

Trump: Yes, people are dying, it is what it is.

Indeed, it is what it is. People die during pandemics. People die all the time. That's life. I understand that you may not like President Trumps choice of words but I personally don't mind straight talkers. We know and always have known that Donald Trump speaks like that.

dwayneshintzy

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Of course, I as a Trump supporter interpreted it differently than many of his opponents. I felt that Swan was not a great interviewer, he had very aggressive body language from the start. He kept banging on about the New York figures and comparing apples with oranges. New York cannot be compared to Japan or South Korea (like Swan was attempting). There are too many variables at play. I personally feel that whilst the pandemic is bad, it is not near as bad as it is being made out to be. Look at Sweden, they are doing great & so is their economy. People need to remember, President Trump has much more to worry about when it comes to lock downs, he has to factor in his economy. If you look at the deaths per million, he is not doing so bad.

There is only so much he can do at a federal level. Look at the states worst effected by the pandemic, many of the are run by democrats! When Trump tried to take action in March to help New York what did Cuomo do??

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-filing-lawsuit-against-trump-administration-over-assault-new-york

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

The USA has the 8th worst death rate in the world, with over 1,000 people per day still dying and no sign that cases are going down. How is that "not doing so bad"?

Timberrrrrrrr

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Indeed, it is what it is. People die during pandemics. People die all the time. That's life. I understand that you may not like President Trumps choice of words but I personally don't mind straight talkers. We know and always have known that Donald Trump speaks like that.

this is the same Trump who said.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/398887965302091776?s=20

There is always a tweet

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/525495434928988160?s=20

Overheal

biko wrote: »

If Joe Biden knows how to fix America, why didn't he tell Obama?

Had Trump broken it yet?

[Deleted User]

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Indeed, it is what it is. People die during pandemics. People die all the time. That's life. I understand that you may not like President Trumps choice of words but I personally don't mind straight talkers. We know and always have known that Donald Trump speaks like that.

And they have failed to exit the first wave... In terms of deaths per million, they're currently in the worst hit countries. They're likely to pass out Sweden and Italy in the next month or so. Hitting 250,000 deaths in November. Meanwhile Europe and the rest of the world does have a reasonable handle on it.

Meanwhile Donald only recently rolled back on making masks into a culture war although the damage is done now. He ran rallies while numbers were growing. That's good leadership to you?

mcmoustache

biko wrote: »

If Joe Biden knows how to fix America, why didn't he tell Obama?

Who said he didn't tell Obama.

I know you're trying to be funny but if we take Trump's favourite measurement just for the craic, you'll notice that that downward trend did indeed get "fixed".

https://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years

Here's another one, this time for unemployment.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/193290/unemployment-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/

Basically, he arrived with indicators in the shítter and when he left, they were no longer in the shitter. These are real, tangible things that can be measured. Not some warm fuzzy feeling of nostalgia for 1950s "greatness".

Kidchameleon

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

The USA has the 8th worst death rate in the world, with over 1,000 people per day still dying and no sign that cases are going down. How is that "not doing so bad"?

IMHO, it is not so bad because the deaths per million is at an understandable level (it is a serious pandemic after all). There are many many factors at play & no two countries can be compared (take a look at San Marino). I cant comment on the 1,000 people per day figure because it is not the figure I have (which is approx half that)

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

dwayneshintzy

1,000 people per day is based on the last 7 days average. Here is the deaths per million over the past 7 days worldwide, actually; https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average

Kidchameleon

Deleted User wrote: »

And they have failed to exit the first wave... In terms of deaths per million, they're currently in the worst hit countries. They're likely to pass out Sweden and Italy in the next month or so. Hitting 250,000 deaths in November. Meanwhile Europe and the rest of the world does have a reasonable handle on it.

Cannot compare the US and Europe. Two completely different scenarios. You have to look at population density, age, health - so much to consider. you cannot compare apples and oranges. Look at New York and New Jersey, why is there double the number of deaths in NY?

ancapailldorcha

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Cannot compare the US and Europe. Two completely different scenarios. You have to look at population density, age, health - so much to consider. you cannot compare apples and oranges. Look at New York and New Jersey, why is there double the number of deaths in NY?

Of course you can. You'd prefer that we didn't because it makes Trump look like the appalling mess of a human being that he is.

[Deleted User]

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Cannot compare the US and Europe. Two completely different scenarios. You have to look at population density, age, health - so much to consider. you cannot compare apples and oranges. Look at New York and New Jersey, why is there double the number of deaths in NY?

The US had the same goal as Europe, to flatten the curve. The US have failed to do so. You're basically using "apples and oranges" to prevent any criticism of the situation.

mcmoustache

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Cannot compare the US and Europe. Two completely different scenarios. You have to look at population density, age, health - so much to consider. you cannot compare apples and oranges. Look at New York and New Jersey, why is there double the number of deaths in NY?

About twice the population maybe?

Those two cities have about the same number of deaths per million, according to worldometer. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. The US can be compared to lots of other countries. Maybe not the outliers like tiny countries but it can certainly be compared to other countries that have things like cities, countryside, people etc.

Timberrrrrrrr

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Cannot compare the US and Europe. Two completely different scenarios. You have to look at population density, age, health - so much to consider. you cannot compare apples and oranges. Look at New York and New Jersey, why is there double the number of deaths in NY?

Yet Trump does this all the time

Kidchameleon

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yet Trump does this all the time

Really? I'm pretty sure he mentioned in the Axios interview that its difficult to compare different regions, I'm happy to be corrected. Would you have any examples of Trump comparing Europe to the US regarding Corona Virus?

Kidchameleon

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Of course you can. You'd prefer that we didn't because it makes Trump look like the appalling mess of a human being that he is.

I don't really have a response to this post.

salmocab

Kidchameleon wrote: »

IMHO, it is not so bad because the deaths per million is at an understandable level (it is a serious pandemic after all). There are many many factors at play & no two countries can be compared (take a look at San Marino). I cant comment on the 1,000 people per day figure because it is not the figure I have (which is approx half that)

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

There are currently about 1000 a day dying where does that suggest it’s half that?

Kidchameleon

salmocab wrote: »

There are currently about 1000 a day dying where does that suggest it’s half that?

I was going by the last few days but the poster provided a link to the 1k figure in the mean time & I do not dispute it.

Timberrrrrrrr

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Really? I'm pretty sure he mentioned in the Axios interview that its difficult to compare different regions, I'm happy to be corrected. Would you have any examples of Trump comparing Europe to the US regarding Corona Virus?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.koco.com/amp/article/president-trump-pointed-to-european-nations-in-call-to-reopen-schools-heres-how-the-us-compares/33265867

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/07/politics/trump-coronavirus-death-rate-lowest-fact-check/index.html

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-52493073

Overheal

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Cannot compare the US and Europe. Two completely different scenarios. You have to look at population density, age, health - so much to consider. you cannot compare apples and oranges. Look at New York and New Jersey, why is there double the number of deaths in NY?

Europe and the US are very comparable by density and landmass yes. So why not compare them.

8mv

biko wrote: »

If Joe Biden knows how to fix America, why didn't he tell Obama?

Hope you copyrighted your work, Biko. It's all over the net...
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fjeepsuzih2%2Fstatus%2F1264778971855687680&psig=AOvVaw0dPN6SJBKBeFltUQ8qfjb1&ust=1596739225525000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCNjuxqnbhOsCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

salmocab

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I was going by the last few days but the poster provided a link to the 1k figure in the mean time & I do not dispute it.

Fair enough but even the link you have has today’s deaths at 700 so far.

Kidchameleon

Overheal wrote: »

Europe and the US are very comparable by density and landmass yes. So why not compare them.

I don't think it is wise to compare countries because of the multitude of details that can effect figures (density and landmass are only two factors, what about population age, education, tourism etc etc I could go on all night)

Here are some figures for deaths per 1 million population. Note that there are several European countries worse off than the US

San Marino: 1,238
Belgium: 850
UK: 683
Andorra: 673
Spain: 610
Italy: 582
Sweden: 570

USA: 486

Kidchameleon

salmocab wrote: »

Fair enough but even the link you have has today’s deaths at 700 so far.

It was 486 a few minutes ago, indeed it is 708 now.

mcmoustache

Overheal wrote: »

Europe and the US are very comparable by density and landmass yes. So why not compare them.

For one, we didn't have someone in authority telling us that this was just going to go away after a couple of cases.

We also weren't promised miracle cures by a top authority either.

Now that I think of it, I also don't recall anyone in authority encouraging lockdown protests here either. Sure, we had Gemma, but you can't really compare a US President to some incoherent contrarian.

I wonder if those actions would cause an increase or a decrease in the spread.