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Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2020/2021

Thanx 4 The Fish

Just in case guys, I may have suggested that the last one may have been the one and I still may be right but it has been suggested that we get this one up just in case it all goes LFC's way this evening.

YNWA

Old one here.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058050887&page=631

For the day that may be in it, heres a bit of awful singing.

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Dickerty

I still don't think Thiago will happen, unless we lose a midfielder, or unless we plan on using Fab as 4th CB.
Too many CMs for 3 spots as it is.

rob316

Yes I like Lewis, that would be solid younger player to challenge Robertson. Good going forward and crossing, looked weak defensively but that was norwich for ya.

Harry Palmr

Probably should start "agent watch" rather than player watch. A large part of the first team squad is represented by just a few cigar chomping Mr 10% types.

Fitz*

If Lewis, a CB with the profile of White & a young versatile pacey winger come in this summer, I would be happy. A couple of 21-23 year old players are needed for the squad IMO, for continuity.

I'm not so sure on Sarr myself but I would give the benefit of doubt to the recruitment team as they have proven me wrong before! Sarr would also be an AFCON worry, having 3 forwards falling into that category is a lot.

Robert2014

Play 10-15 games for a team with potential of winning big trophies or 30-40 games with a team just competing, I'd know which one I'd choose.

Need to find a player willing to back themselves to say I can compete to get into an elite team rather than settling for less.

Enzokk

noodler wrote: »

It's not being frugal?

I could be wrong Slick but we're you not quite forthright in the aftermath of the Werner transfer that COVID was forcing the owners to watch the pennies?

On your above example...well you've gone from first XI to youngsters who won't see serious game time and ignored everything in between.

The thread is in almost universal agreement that we need at least three players (LB, CB, Forward cover) and none of the kids listed will fill that void.

I don't think anyone expects 100m signings.

We spent £310m in wages last year because we won the CL. I suspect it would be more this year as more bonuses will be paid due to us winning the League this year. You have to spend money to win and we are doing that, but at the same time it means we cannot buy Sancho and spend £100m and £200K per week without getting rid of another player earning the same.

Man Utd are trying to get rid of Sanchez and will use some of that salary relief to sign other players. But at the same time their young stars will be looking at the wages Sancho will be earning and want the same.

Chelsea and Utd are in the spending phase right now so they are making headline signings. Even City, looking at Ake and Torres instead of Koulibaly and Sancho, shows that they cannot spend unlimited amounts either (fully aware they can make me look like a fool still). Basically, we made a big bet that VVD and Alison would pay off and they have. We also spent a lot on AOC and Keita and they are yet to pay off for us. The other clubs are chasing us and with inflation are spending big amounts.

Yes it sucks to see them spending a lot but we aren't there in our cycle. Maybe next year if one or even two of the front three leaves and we cash in, but not this year with the shortened off-season and pre-season and Covid-19 reduction in income. You really do not want to be spending money right now and trying to integrate important players into your team. By not doing a overhaul we are ahead of all our rivals and not playing in August in Europe means we get a proper pre-season and rest where all our rivals are still practicing and playing high intensity games.

Good luck to them in December and January when they have been playing almost non-stop since June and the season is only half way done.

Dickerty

Robert2014 wrote: »

Play 10-15 games for a team with potential of winning big trophies or 30-40 games with a team just competing, I'd know which one I'd choose.

Need to find a player willing to back themselves to say I can compete to get into an elite team rather than settling for less.

It must be a difficult decision. Of course you would back yourself, but you are up against the best LB in the world right now. So you will get the cup games, and maybe a few league games after big CL match. The worry is you'd miss ALL those big fixtures that you got up for, the upside of being promoted in the first place.
If it's that or stay in the Championship, that's easy. But how about being a starter for West Ham, or Villa? Is that better?

gimli2112

Robbo was left questioning whether he made the right move months after he arrived. Watching Moreno walk his dog on a hoverboard and getting picked ahead of him must have been infuriating.

SlickRic

noodler wrote: »

It's not being frugal?

I could be wrong Slick but we're you not quite forthright in the aftermath of the Werner transfer that COVID was forcing the owners to watch the pennies?

On your above example...well you've gone from first XI to youngsters who won't see serious game time and ignored everything in between.

The thread is in almost universal agreement that we need at least three players (LB, CB, Forward cover) and none of the kids listed will fill that void.

I don't think anyone expects 100m signings.

I was forthright in that we couldn't compete with Chelsea for the amount of money they were willing to spend on Werner (transfer fee and wages), as well as the status he would have at the club. I'd love to have Werner. But once they offered the riches they did, and an immediate transfer, we were done. 250k a week on a non-integral player, isn't going to happen.

Lewis and Sarr aren't youngsters.

We need forward cover, LB cover and we need another CB. LB will be covered by Lewis if he comes. Sarr would be forward cover.

Also, we're forgetting Klopp doesn't really do giant squads. It risks the culture he tries to instill.

FSG aren't oligarchs or run by a State. They're a business looking for profit. We have to be realistic. We're not going to spend 60m on a Cancelo type to sit on a bench, for example. Or Sancho money for what he'd be for us.

I expect the same starting XI next season. Maybe Thiago, and a couple of backups bought.

yourdeadwright

We won't know about Thiago until Bayern are out of the Champions league its looking possible as Gini still hasn't signed,

How good is Elliot ? Is he good or really good ,
Does he bang them in at youth level or does he not play much for them ?
Is he still a long way off paying for the first team and making an actually impact ?

Morzadec

Delighted to hear we're moving for a backup left back, this is a crucial position to fill. Lewis looks pacy and forward thinking, likes to take on his man and most importantly has a left foot.

21 is the right age to be signing and 10m the right amount to be spending. Klopp will get the best out of him and develop him along. Great move for the lad if it comes off, he should easily get 10-15 starts in all comps I would guess which would be a good introduction for him.

Watching this video, it's interesting how two-footed he seems to be. He cuts in a lot onto his right, and appears to lead his dribbling with his right foot. I wonder could he cover both flanks? He looks like he could benefit from the increased physical level he should get at Liverpool under Klopp, that extra bit of strength and pace

BillyHasMates

SlickRic wrote: »

I was forthright in that we couldn't compete with Chelsea for the amount of money they were willing to spend on Werner (transfer fee and wages), as well as the status he would have at the club. I'd love to have Werner. But once they offered the riches they did, and an immediate transfer, we were done. 250k a week on a non-integral player, isn't going to happen.

Lewis and Sarr aren't youngsters.

We need forward cover, LB cover and we need another CB. LB will be covered by Lewis if he comes. Sarr would be forward cover.

Also, we're forgetting Klopp doesn't really do giant squads. It risks the culture he tries to instill.

FSG aren't oligarchs or run by a State. They're a business looking for profit. We have to be realistic. We're not going to spend 60m on a Cancelo type to sit on a bench, for example. Or Sancho money for what he'd be for us.

I expect the same starting XI next season. Maybe Thiago, and a couple of backups bought.

Not picking you out in particular but whose argument exactly are you addressing? Maybe I'm blind but I haven't seen any posts stating we need to spend crazy money or that we need upgrades to the starting eleven. A few posters, me included, believes the squad needs strengthening and that we will obviously need to spend some money in this window. There is a bit of a difference between saying that and saying we need to spend United or City levels of money.

I wouldn't mind Lewis as backup lb or White if we could get him as cover for Lovren. Yes Klopp likes a small squad but we have already lost Lallana and Lovren from last years squad and a youngster who was being considered as backup for Robertson. Straight away three spots to fill. Nobody knows at the minute what's going on with the Gini contract situation. Shaq didn't really feature last year, will he be moved on? As for forward cover I'm not gone on Sarr. From what I have seen of him he is not great technically and his end product could be better.

DVDM93

6 wrote: »

Throwing money at players hasn't worked out well for Utd recently. Fine for City as they have Pep.

Spending big not a guarantee of success.

Solsksaer staying is a massive boost to rivals imo, as I don't believe he's good enough for a title challenge.

This is true.

If United spend 120 million on Sancho, that increases their overall spend to £1.2 BILLION since Alex Ferguson left.

The closest they’ve been to the title is 17 points and they’ve finished in the top 4 only three times.

gimli2112

There was a general outcry when Werner wasn't signed and while this was understandable there were reasons. People couldn't believe we wouldn't pay 65M or whatever it was for him, probably myself included but again there were good reasons he went to Chelsea and a lot of these will end up in his bank account. Although this simplifies the reasons why.

We operate a different model to some of the clubs we are competing against, out of necessity.

dogbert27

gimli2112 wrote: »

Robbo was left questioning whether he made the right move months after he arrived. Watching Moreno walk his dog on a hoverboard and getting picked ahead of him must have been infuriating.

I was going to say something similar. The important thing for the players is to be ready to take their opportunity and let the other one fight harder to get his place back.

Bowlardo

yourdeadwright wrote: »

We won't know about Thiago until Bayern are out of the Champions league its looking possible as Gini still hasn't signed,

How good is Elliot ? Is he good or really good ,
Does he bang them in at youth level or does he not play much for them ?
Is he still a long way off paying for the first team and making an actually impact ?

I would think he will play all FA and league cup games plus a few sub appearances in the league next year. He is the real deal from what I have seen of him but it will be the season after next we will start to see more of him.
This season will see a lot more of Jones...(double last year’s appearances).
Won’t be signing Thiago unless gini leaves.
We have a **** load of Quality midfielders
Next seasons will see big performances from ox and keita

yourdeadwright

Bowlardo wrote: »

I would think he will play all FA and league cup games plus a few sub appearances in the league next year. He is the real deal from what I have seen of him but it will be the season after next we will start to see more of him.
This season will see a lot more of Jones...(double last year’s appearances).
Won’t be signing Thiago unless gini leaves.
We have a **** load of Quality midfielders
Next seasons will see big performances from ox and keita[/QUO

Jones got player of the year in the Premier league 2 (under 23s down) so its the next logical step for him ,

[Deleted User]

gimli2112 wrote: »

There was a general outcry when Werner wasn't signed and while this was understandable there were reasons. People couldn't believe we wouldn't pay 65M or whatever it was for him, probably myself included but again there were good reasons he went to Chelsea and a lot of these will end up in his bank account. Although this simplifies the reasons why.

We operate a different model to some of the clubs we are competing against, out of necessity.

A superior one too.

MD1990

Cant see us signing Sarr.
We would have 4 players off to the African Nations Cup during the season.

rossie1977

When you consider Everton have spent as much money as Liverpool last 5 years just shows what an incredible job Klopp has done..

Dickerty

MD1990 wrote: »

Cant see us signing Sarr.
We would have 4 players off to the African Nations Cup during the season.

I think the 2021 iteration is already moved to Jan 2022, so I wouldn't worry about that too much. Mane and/or Salah could have retired from internationals by then.

BorneTobyWilde

Ismaila Sarr would be great signing, huge potential. Speed, aggression, skill, can finish.

Fitz*

Dickerty wrote: »

I think the 2021 iteration is already moved to Jan 2022, so I wouldn't worry about that too much. Mane and/or Salah could have retired from internationals by then.

Not a hope they retire from international football.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYSTVgoylYk

BorneTobyWilde

Sarr loves to win ball back, that's a huge asset

noodler

gimli2112 wrote: »

There was a general outcry when Werner wasn't signed and while this was understandable there were reasons. People couldn't believe we wouldn't pay 65M or whatever it was for him, probably myself included but again there were good reasons he went to Chelsea and a lot of these will end up in his bank account. Although this simplifies the reasons why.

We operate a different model to some of the clubs we are competing against, out of necessity.

A different model to all of them it seems!

I think the Werner reaction was completely understandable given the flirting that went on before Chelsea swooped and the fact 50m for the Bundesliga top scorer looked a bit of a bargain.

More widely, we have spent big money on squad players with 40m on the Ox and I think some of the cover we need may need up being a bit more expensive than some envisage.

Can people stop strawmanning with "just cos we aren't spending £100m on Sancho" etc though, please? Spending half that on the Bundesliga top scorer who would have ticked off one of our long-standing requirements and who seemed genuinely keen was the only complaint I've seen.

A year or two ago there was a reasonably prevalent view on here that you don't buy people to sit on the bench and you should be trying to buy better than you have and force the incumbents to raise their game but it seems to have dispelled a touch.

Agent Coulson

Bobby really is the best.

https://twitter.com/JamesPearceLFC/status/1290937513847271426?s=20

Dickerty

Fitz* wrote: »

Not a hope they retire from international football.

What's that based on? Post 30, a lot of players look for one more tournament to them retire and prolong their playing career/spend time with their families. Particularly players who rely on pace!

~Rebel~

noodler wrote: »

A different model to all of them it seems!

I think the Werner reaction was completely understandable given the flirting that went on before Chelsea swooped and the fact 50m for the Bundesliga top scorer looked a bit of a bargain.

More widely, we have spent big money on squad players with 40m on the Ox and I think some of the cover we need may need up being a bit more expensive than some envisage.

Can people stop strawmanning with "just cos we aren't spending £100m on Sancho" etc though, please? Spending half that on the Bundesliga top scorer who would have ticked off one of our long-standing requirements and who seemed genuinely keen was the only complaint I've seen.

If the Werner thing was happening at just about any other time, we might have bought (or at least bid the release clause - it's hard to see him not having taken double the wages at Chelsea anyway...). But it happened in the midst of a pandemic, and recession, with no fans at stadiums, and general uncertainty over what the future holds. Feels like the actual severity of conditions somehow gets forgotten every so often in here... a trillion dollars disappeared worldwide, and the UK market returns went to minus 25% Of course that will stop a business from investing in a non-essential backup - sure the plan would have been for him to be a starter long term, but that obviously means it was not an essential need right now. There are a lot of players out there for another day as the need grows larger down the road. For Chelsea meanwhile he's a nailed on starter, and key to their rebuild, which is why they're paying him double what we would have in wages.

A year or two ago there was a reasonably prevalent view on here that you don't buy people to sit on the bench and you should be trying to buy better than you have and force the incumbents to raise their game but it seems to have dispelled a touch.

Stands to reason though, right?... Like, when your starting options are only alright, then your policy should be to try to improve upon them and relegate the only alright guys to backup. But when your starting options are pretty much world class in every position, to improve upon them costs an awful lot more. Is there a single position in the first team that we could confidently improve upon for less than 75 million? I'm not sure to be honest. So obviously when your starting 11 is so good, your policy shifts to ensuring the backups are of a quality that won't lower the teams output by too much.

In both cases, circumstances change decision making policy.

Fitz*

Dickerty wrote: »

What's that based on? Post 30, a lot of players look for one more tournament to them retire and prolong their playing career/spend time with their families. Particularly players who rely on pace!

They strike me as the players that are extremely proud to represent their country, and are proud to be the figureheads of African football.

They both attended the African football awards a couple of seasons ago and missed training so they could attend the day before a (Everton I think) game.

They might miss some friendlies but they always play in competitive games for their countries.