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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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KCross

And around and around we go!!

This BEV vs PHEV argument will never be won. The charge points are for whoever wants them based on the operators rules.

It will make a lot less sense to plugin a PHEV once AC charges are brought in alright though.

unkel

Paid or not, it's fair game anyway, first come first served, you are right!

Not much point though taking out your cable, plugging in, going through the app thing or using a swipe card and at the end reverse this whole process, app again or card and removing your cable and storing it back into your car, just to save yourself €1

And that's for a full charge from empty to full, taking 3 hours. Your maximum possible saving. If you only plug in for one hour, you save just €0.30

whippet

I’m aware of the time to charge but I’m not really understanding the mentality that public charging is for BEV only ... If the electricity is being paid for it’s fair game really

Kramer

whippet wrote: »

Your assuming 3 hours

I did quote unkel's 10kWh post too - hence 3 hours.

unkel wrote:

Let's say you can charge 10kWh, that will cost €3 or so and will give you 50km range.

Kramer

whippet wrote: »

Your assuming 3 hours .. what’s the problem with taking a 90 min charge while having a lunch and getting the next 20km or so on EV?

It's about 50%

Kramer wrote: »

a PHEV occupying an SCP for 3 hours 90 minutes, drawing a lowly 3.7kW, could prevent a 22kW AC capable BEV, both charging & driving almost 200km 100km, in that same 3 hours 90 minutes.

No different from using a fast DC charger really, that's why there is an overstay fee after 45 minutes on those.
These will also be introduced for SCPs.

whippet

Your assuming 3 hours .. what’s the problem with taking a 90 min charge while having a lunch and getting the next 20km or so on EV?

Kramer

whippet wrote: »

When you are paying surely BEV or PHEV makes no difference

It does if you're in a BEV, you NEED a charge to continue your journey or get home &....
1. you're in the west, with a paucity of available chargers/charge points
2. there's a petrol engined BMW 3 series occupying the only available AC charge point, charging at 3kWs
3. he's not charging because he needs to charge or is saving money.

whippet wrote: »

... isn’t the idea of EV to have as much miles covered by the entire fleet done without the use of fossil fuels?

Well, yes. But a PHEV occupying an SCP for 3 hours, drawing a lowly 3.7kW, could prevent a 22kW AC capable BEV, both charging & driving almost 200km, in that same 3 hours.

It's about the scarcity of recharging resources IMO but, as I said, at a hotel overnight, or a B&B, or private shop provided charge point, knock yourself out.

whippet

Kramer wrote: »

The bigger issue IMO, is it will take him 3 hours to get that 10kWh :eek:.

PHEVs, limited to 3.7kW charging speed, IMO should only be charged at home, at work or at destination charge points, privately provided by hotels, shops etc.

This talk of only using public charge points to avail of free or priority parking is ridiculous too.

When you are paying surely BEV or PHEV makes no difference ... isn’t the idea of EV to have as much miles covered by the entire fleet done without the use of fossil fuels?

Kramer

unkel wrote: »

Is there really much point in public charging a PHEV when the charging for slow charging comes in? Let's say you can charge 10kWh, that will cost €3 or so and will give you 50km range.

The bigger issue IMO, is it will take him 3 hours to get that 10kWh :eek:.

PHEVs, limited to 3.7kW charging speed, IMO should only be charged at home, at work or at destination charge points, privately provided by hotels, shops etc.

This talk of only using public charge points to avail of free or priority parking is ridiculous too.

unkel

Is there really much point in public charging a PHEV when the charging for slow charging comes in? Let's say you can charge 10kWh, that will cost €3 or so and will give you 50km range. Which you could have got with say 3l of petrol costing about €4. Very little saving (€1) for the hassle of plugging in. Obviously if this gives you (free) premium parking that would make a difference, but that's not the case in Dublin.

innrain

Some BEVs would charge in one hour 22kWh in the same spot which would be some 100km range. I would charge about 50km per hour so maybe efficiency is not the right word. Now in Dublin paying for parking while charging would make the experience quite expensive. Probably if you have to park and it happens to be a charger there why not, but to seek a charger just for few kWh is to much hassle. But that's just my opinion. I have a BEV and use standard chargers only if they happen to be there where I stop. Otherwise FCPs to the max. 😊

whippet

So it’s still relevantly efficient to charge while on the move which is nice to know.

Since there is no free charging anymore is subscribe to the notion of first come first serve .. I’d only be in any spot for an hour or two max anyway so. It as if I’d be doing anything different to a BEV

innrain

From next week you're going to pay about € 3.5/100km vs € 5-6/100km on petrol. The only problem is that you have to charge at least twice to achieve that (4h). Some people might be judgemental about PHEVs charging especially in locations where chargers are scarce. I don't think you'll have any issues at Decathlon but in Dingle...

MJohnston

whippet wrote: »

just wondering what are people's opinions are on public charging of PHEVs ... I took mine down the country for the weekend and was able to charge on the granny cable where I was staying. But I'll heading out west next week for 10 days and while I won't be doing any mad mileage I will be out and about a bit. I can generally get between 40-48km on EV off a full charge but i've never really considered charging at public charge points as i'm not sure it's worth it.

I do like being able to do urban / semi urban driving on EV and if I did take advantage of public charge points it would be nice. On the home charger it takes about 3h15m to get a full charge .. it's a G20 BMW 330e so has no fast charge capability.

is it worth it .. or is the prevailing sentiment of BEVs that PHEVs are persona non grata when it comes to public charging?

Presuming you’re talking about AC points only here.

It’s really a factor of how many other charging points are nearby (say within 10km).

If there are other public chargers nearby, then imo “first come first served” is a fair attitude. But I’d suggest leaving a note on your dash with a phone number and staying close by.

If there aren’t, then I think best etiquette would be to wait in the car while it charges.

Ultimately in both cases you have the ability to drive wherever you want on fossil fuel, but a charging point may be the only option for a BEV.

whippet

just wondering what are people's opinions are on public charging of PHEVs ... I took mine down the country for the weekend and was able to charge on the granny cable where I was staying. But I'll heading out west next week for 10 days and while I won't be doing any mad mileage I will be out and about a bit. I can generally get between 40-48km on EV off a full charge but i've never really considered charging at public charge points as i'm not sure it's worth it.

I do like being able to do urban / semi urban driving on EV and if I did take advantage of public charge points it would be nice. On the home charger it takes about 3h15m to get a full charge .. it's a G20 BMW 330e so has no fast charge capability.

is it worth it .. or is the prevailing sentiment of BEVs that PHEVs are persona non grata when it comes to public charging?

ELM327

Yes, you pay a one off cost of 10€ for the rfid.
It's very handy to have for travelling in the EU. Probably more expensive than the native cards etc but will get you out of a hole.

Black_Knight

There's a plug surfing RFID? Well now I know

ELM327

I wasnt going to tell people as it would get outted.
I knew it would get fixed eventually but , if they are gonna give it for free, that's not my problem!

DrPhilG

Are you confessing your guilt at getting free charging, or your guilt at not telling us all while it was happening?

ELM327

So... a confession.

Using a plugsurfing RFID, the ecars fast chargers have been free until now. Meaning I've not had to pay for fast charging since I discovered this in January 2020. I also was able to use Ionity for free with the easygo RFID.

I think something has changed over the weekend. Neither of these options are now available, meaning I'll now have to pay for fast charging!! Argh :P

I was topping my car up every friday in Navan for the weekend, and with Covid that was getting me through the week. So no electric costs.

KCross

An interesting take on car reliability from Carwow

The Germans dont do so well and the Asians are well up there... hence their 7yr warranties I guess!

[Deleted User]

liamog wrote: »

Some people will be amazed to find that the eGolf, etron and e208 are outselling the Leaf in Europe https://pushevs.com/2020/07/30/european-bev-sales-in-h1-2020/

Dealer Network access to large company fleets explain this..

McGiver

ELM327 wrote:

We had a mitsubishi Galant in the late 80s. This is not the asian crap, this is specific to the Chinese market.

For Japs you have to go back to 50 years for the "Asian crap" to apply, for Koreans go back 30 years. The Chinese wave is the next one, it's inevitable. They will sell cars, many of them. They have battery factories, car factories, industrial base, catching up on know-how, it will happen. They may hide behind other legacy brands (MG, Volvo etc) first....

ELM327

McGiver wrote: »

Given the EV penetration in China, their tech and industrial advances in last decade or so, I think the Chinese are on track to be the next Koreans very soon. They'll compete by price first.

Exactly the same happened with the Japanese and then the Koreans. Look where the Koreans are now. Back in the day nobody would touch a Japanese or Korean car when they were the newcomers to the market - they all had "Asian crap" rep.

We had a mitsubishi Galant in the late 80s. This is not the asian crap, this is specific to the Chinese market.

If I could live my life without buying anything from China again I'd be delighted. But that's not possible.

liamog

Some people will be amazed to find that the eGolf, etron and e208 are outselling the Leaf in Europe https://pushevs.com/2020/07/30/european-bev-sales-in-h1-2020/

[Deleted User]

ELM327 wrote: »

MG ZS is an actual chinese car and seems ok in EV form.
Bjorn has been testing some "I can't believe it's not Tesla" Chinese copies too.

I mean, I'd never under any circumstances drive a chinese car, too unsafe, but they seem to be doing ok.

It's only a matter of time before they start producing cars that have comparable safety ratings with the best of what the Euro car makers produce, that's assuming they don't already. Having said that, there's no denying just how bad their early cars were!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ULm6QrC428

Edit: if you can trust them here is a website of Chinese car crash tests, some "no star cars" https://www.chinesecars.net/free-information/crash-tests

JPA

10 years ago Huawei and xiaomi were tat you'd be embarrassed to use, now they are mainstream, it will happen to cars too.

McGiver

ELM327 wrote: »

MG ZS is an actual chinese car and seems ok in EV form.
Bjorn has been testing some "I can't believe it's not Tesla" Chinese copies too.

I mean, I'd never under any circumstances drive a chinese car, too unsafe, but they seem to be doing ok.

Given the EV penetration in China, their tech and industrial advances in last decade or so, I think the Chinese are on track to be the next Koreans very soon. They'll compete by price first.

Exactly the same happened with the Japanese and then the Koreans. Look where the Koreans are now. Back in the day nobody would touch a Japanese or Korean car when they were the newcomers to the market - they all had "Asian crap" rep.

ELM327

Cyrus wrote: »

yes i know that, but i wouldnt call them chinese cars personally, i dont think any of the chinese domestic co's have produced anything nearly as good.

MG ZS is an actual chinese car and seems ok in EV form.
Bjorn has been testing some "I can't believe it's not Tesla" Chinese copies too.

I mean, I'd never under any circumstances drive a chinese car, too unsafe, but they seem to be doing ok.

Cyrus

ELM327 wrote: »

Volvo is a chinese company now afaik

Like JLR are owned by TATA

yes i know that, but i wouldnt call them chinese cars personally, i dont think any of the chinese domestic co's have produced anything nearly as good.