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Galway traffic

ben.schlomo

Seemed light this evening, seeing as there doesn't seem to be a thread on traffic here I said I'd start this due to the importance of the issue.

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TwoWheeledTim

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Which ones might they be?

Mrs OBumble

McGiver wrote: »

Spot on. I actually wanted to say that - time to move out of the centre, sorry.
....

Galway has grown from a town to a city, but its infrastructure has not (a common problem in Ireland). Now, Galway has to make the final step to become a city proper - pedestrianise the centre, high rise in the centre, high density housing, public transport, cycling infrastructure etc. Frankly, there is no way back to township, it's either stagnation being nowhere or morph to a proper city.

The problem is that many inhabitants and commuters from the countryside want Galway to stay a town and not become a city because they are afraid of city and the city concept is foreign to them. This is reactionary, backward and hampers progress of the Galway City.

That's hilarious.

You want a high-density city - but the only people who can live or indeed do business in it are those who are fit and mobile enough to cycle around: old people, pregnant women, disabled people etc can all feck off. In fact, they cannot even visit to use the businesses that are there. Even younger, fitter people who get temporary mobility-limiting injuries need to go.

ROTFLMAO.

As it happens, right now, personally I'm mobile again. Except I cannot cycle - and never will be due to a knee injury. Which is fine by me, walking is far more sustainable.

But there are people in the council-owned housing in the inner city which was funded and built specifically for elderly-and-disabled. They have tenancy-for-life arrangements. And the funding scheme which built the housing means they will be replaced by similar people in future.

I grew up in a city that's about five times the size of Galway. The first pedestrianised street was installed in the 1970s. The same as happened here - people living above the shops there moved out of that street. Some other areas were pedestrianised in the 1980s and 1990s, and I believe some more in the 2000's since I left. Never whole neighbourhoods, though, just parts of streets where it made sense. So even limited mobility people always had an option. Those closed sections made great community spaces, for sure. But they came with a price tag, which is lots of anti-social behaviour. Street drinkers paradise - or glue-sniffers in the 1980s. Noise from teenagers in the daytime,and from older drunk kids at night

In that city, inner city apartments became people with older people who downsized from the large family home and section which they couldn't manage any more. Low maintenance living, lots of facilities close by.

It is possible to design progressive spaces to they meet everyone's needs. But you cannot be simplistic or a sole-issue focused. Motorised transport needs to be part of the mix. People of all life-stages need to be considered.

McGiver

Ludikrus wrote:

As sure as night follows day Copenhagen will get a shout on these kind of threads. Utopia!

If your idea of a modern city is a place where you're breathing nanoparticles from worn tyres and particulate matter from diesel fumes, hearing car engine noise and looking at people racing around in cars then yeah - welcome to Galway (and generally any Irish City and town).

Obviously Galway is not Copenhagen, but doesn't mean Galway shouldn't get inspiration and should just continue to be a dirty town flooded with dirty cars going through the middle of its historical centre.

McGiver

Deleted User wrote:

Which ones might they be?

Seriously, I think his idea of a modern city is 1970s Derby or something...

McGiver

Mrs OBumble wrote:

You want a high-density city - but the only people who can live or indeed do business in it are those who are fit and mobile enough to cycle around: old people, pregnant women, disabled people etc can all feck off. In fact, they cannot even visit to use the businesses that are there. Even younger, fitter people who get temporary mobility-limiting injuries need to go.

My point is that, hard luck, this is the case in most other cities... What can you do.

A small minority cannot block the development of the city centre for the overall majority. Most cities have pedestrianised centres for a reason.

McGiver

Mrs OBumble wrote:

It is possible to design progressive spaces to they meet everyone's needs. But you cannot be simplistic or a sole-issue focused. Motorised transport needs to be part of the mix. People of all life-stages need to be considered.

So you think the city centre shouldn't be pedestrianised and there's something very special on the Atlantic coast that prevents adopting the best practise of pedestrianising city centres all around Europe for last 40 years?

gordongekko

McGiver wrote: »

So you think the city centre shouldn't be pedestrianised and there's something very special on the Atlantic coast that prevents adopting the best practise of pedestrianising city centres all around Europe for last 40 years?

The city centre has been pedestrianised. Its not best practice to block vehicle access to the residential parks of the city

McGiver

gordongekko wrote:

The city centre has been pedestrianised. Its not best practice to block vehicle access to the residential parks of the city

Elaborate please.

Geuze

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

It may sound harsh but Cycling and public transport is for the poor. I don’t know anyone who owned a car who opts for the bus or cycling rather than driving.

Some people may have your preferences, yes.

But others are willing to switch modes, if public transit and/or cycling is improved.

I am a car owner that has switched to bicycle.

Geuze

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

It may sound harsh but Cycling and public transport is for the poor.

Amsterdam and Copenhagen are prosperous cities, with high rates of cycling.

what_traffic

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

It may sound harsh but Cycling and public transport is for the poor. I don’t know anyone who owned a car who opts for the bus or cycling rather than driving.

Its started to invert for some time now, look at property values.
Where you live - of course you dont. If you actually lived in Galway City- you would meet many people on 50k plus who dont own a car, or live in a household where there is only 1 car outside the door/street.
The closer one is to the city centre the higher the house prices & car ownership levels are also lower.
However usage is the key really. Countrys like Denmark and German have higher car ownership levels than we do, but the way they use them is vastly different.
Re public transport, LUAS and DART have increased the value of propertys along those corridors.

45mhrc7evo1d3n

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Did you ever consider that people would prefer to sit in traffic In their own car than have to use a bus or cycle? I know I would as I hate busses and I hate cycling.

It may sound harsh but Cycling and public transport is for the poor. I don’t know anyone who owned a car who opts for the bus or cycling rather than driving.

Large numbers of staff in the university and tech companies cycle to work. I don't think they would fit the definition of "poor". My other half is one of them and will do anything to avoid sitting in traffic in the car.

ratracer

Oh No!!! Whoever would have thought business would improve when people can browse in comfort.....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/traffic-may-be-banned-in-grafton-st-area-as-pedestrianised-streets-help-boost-business-39421566.html

dave 27

You can still pedestrianize streets but had a small one way road in the middle of the street which still allows for smaller volume traffic while still having majority of the street pedestrianized.

This is done in Limerick in a lot of areas and works quite efficiently, dont need to even look to cities around the world to see what works.

Example..

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Thomas+St,+Limerick/@52.6626163,-8.6260671,3a,75y,75.13h,85.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9r3fqV1FGVbskuOMY5YHRg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m8!1m2!2m1!1sthomas+st!3m4!1s0x485b5c6674930167:0xb6b930503e8c26a0!8m2!3d52.6623131!4d-8.6249989

?Cee?view

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

But the new bridge over the Corrib is expected to ease considerably the heavy flow of traffic through the centre of the city. Motorists at present have to pass through the city to get to one of the bridges. The new Corrib bridge will allow them to bypass the city centre.

Exactly, that's my point. An all encompassing approach is needed. Build the bridge to get the car traffic out of town that doesn't need to be there.

xckjoo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Did you ever consider that people would prefer to sit in traffic In their own car than have to use a bus or cycle? I know I would as I hate busses and I hate cycling.

It may sound harsh but Cycling and public transport is for the poor. I don’t know anyone who owned a car who opts for the bus or cycling rather than driving.

Ah jesus. I never realised I was poor!!!! There was me thinking I just didn't like wasting my life staring at other peoples brake lights

dave 27 wrote: »

You can still pedestrianize streets but had a small one way road in the middle of the street which still allows for smaller volume traffic while still having majority of the street pedestrianized.

This is done in Limerick in a lot of areas and works quite efficiently, dont need to even look to cities around the world to see what works.

Example..

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Thomas+St,+Limerick/@52.6626163,-8.6260671,3a,75y,75.13h,85.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9r3fqV1FGVbskuOMY5YHRg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m8!1m2!2m1!1sthomas+st!3m4!1s0x485b5c6674930167:0xb6b930503e8c26a0!8m2!3d52.6623131!4d-8.6249989

Was just thinking Domnick Street would be ideal for this. They've put bollards on one side but most of the eateries and pubs are on the other.

TwoWheeledTim

?Cee?view wrote: »

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

But the new bridge over the Corrib is expected to ease considerably the heavy flow of traffic through the centre of the city. Motorists at present have to pass through the city to get to one of the bridges. The new Corrib bridge will allow them to bypass the city centre.

Exactly, that's my point. An all encompassing approach is needed. Build the bridge to get the car traffic out of town that doesn't need to be there.

Yes I thought that would resonate with you...!

My post was a regurgitation of an article from the Galway Advertiser in 1978 celebrating the funding approval for the Quincentenary Bridge. That was to be the ring road to bypass the city centre and and solve the future city traffic problems.

We already built a ring road. It filled with cars. Let's build another?

?Cee?view

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

Yes I thought that would resonate with you...!

My post was a regurgitation of an article from the Galway Advertiser in 1978 celebrating the funding approval for the Quincentenary Bridge. That was to be the ring road to bypass the city centre and and solve the future city traffic problems.

We already built a ring road. It filled with cars. Let's build another?

But let's do it properly this time. Noone in their right mind would consider what was built back then a ring road. Since then we allowed pretty much uncontrolled building west of the Corrib.

This time, provide the public transport and the alternatives. Let's not be prisoners to mistakes made 40 years ago.

xckjoo

?Cee?view wrote: »

But let's do it properly this time. Noone in their right mind would consider what was built back then a ring road. Since then we allowed pretty much uncontrolled building west of the Corrib.

This time, provide the public transport and the alternatives. Let's not be prisoners to mistakes made 40 years ago.

That's exactly what it was considered as at the time and there's no inclusion of PT and alternatives in the plans for the new bridge either. There's rumors of some things they might do but no concrete plans.

I wouldn't mind the bridge being built if I thought it would help, but it looks like it'll be QuincentenaryV2. If they built the bridge, added a toll and then removed all private cars from the other bridges and used them for alternatives it might work.

serfboard

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

My post was a regurgitation of an article from the Galway Advertiser in 1978 celebrating the funding approval for the Quincentenary Bridge. That was to be the ring road to bypass the city centre and and solve the future city traffic problems.

We already built a ring road. It filled with cars. Let's build another?

What was the population of Galway in 1978? How many cars were there in Galway (city) then? How many people worked in Parkmore (AFAIK - zero, the industrial estate didn't exist then), Ballybrit, Mervue, GMIT, NUIG, UHG?

A freeflow bypass with three freeflow junctions at Galway East (M6 motorway), Galway Centre (N59 - Moycullen Road) and Galway West (R336) is (one part of) what's needed, to take long-distance traffic away from near the city.

Unfortunately, what's being proposed is not that. And, it will be a decade at least before anything is built anyway, so let's get on with P&R, Bus Connects, Pedestrianisation and Cycle Lanes in the meantime.

TwoWheeledTim

serfboard wrote: »

What was the population of Galway in 1978? How many cars were there in Galway (city) then? How many people worked in Parkmore (AFAIK - zero, the industrial estate didn't exist then), Ballybrit, Mervue, GMIT, NUIG, UHG?

I understand that but there seemed to be no restriction on building widespread residential areas in the West and large employment areas in the East.

I haven't heard any solid plan to prevent this from continuing. There are houses going up in Barna and Furbo now in optimistic anticipation of the new road. I know people moving out that way purely because it'll be "better connected" in the future so good investment.

If getting across the city suddenly becomes much easier, Knocknacarra and outwards will be more attractive and the estates will fly up again. There isn't even any provision for a bus lane on the new €600m road, so what's Plan C when that fills up?

zell12

Didn't Leo Varadkar admit in 2018 that we need the bypass to 'open up land for development'?

Yep, the Taoiseach said it
"There are two things we can do to alleviate traffic congestion in Galway, not just existing traffic but also to free up other parts of the city for further development. There's the ring road ... and the second thing is investment in public transport."
https://connachttribune.ie/listen-leo-varadkar-on-galway-traffic-health-and-councils-no-confidence-motion/

gordongekko

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

what's Plan C when that fills up?

We will half the population and go back to measuring ourselves against the prosperity and lifestyle of 1978.

For the record in 1979 galway city had a population of 36917 in 2016 galway city had a population of 79934.

TwoWheeledTim

I never said the Quincentenary Bridge and ring road wasn't needed, it was. Nearly every old city needs a ring road as the historic streets have pinch points and weren't made for cars.

But rather than continuing to sprawl, we should try free up that existing road to through and external traffic by making alternative options viable for locals.

cooperguy

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

Yes I thought that would resonate with you...!

My post was a regurgitation of an article from the Galway Advertiser in 1978 celebrating the funding approval for the Quincentenary Bridge. That was to be the ring road to bypass the city centre and and solve the future city traffic problems.

We already built a ring road. It filled with cars. Let's build another?

This time we build it as part of a Galway transportation strategy designed to increase alternative modes of transport - instead of just building a bridge

Thargor

dave 27 wrote: »

You can still pedestrianize streets but had a small one way road in the middle of the street which still allows for smaller volume traffic while still having majority of the street pedestrianized.

This is done in Limerick in a lot of areas and works quite efficiently, dont need to even look to cities around the world to see what works.

Example..

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Thomas+St,+Limerick/@52.6626163,-8.6260671,3a,75y,75.13h,85.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9r3fqV1FGVbskuOMY5YHRg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m8!1m2!2m1!1sthomas+st!3m4!1s0x485b5c6674930167:0xb6b930503e8c26a0!8m2!3d52.6623131!4d-8.6249989

Never expected to see Limerick being used as a good example of car culture working in Ireland, the whole place is a disaster, only Cork more anti-pedestrian/cycling imo, centre of the city dying on its arse even before Covid aswell with the usual enlightened business owners calling for more cars/free parking against all national and international evidence. The usual crowd of fat old men in the council sneering at the treehuggers aswell. In Limerick they've given up on traffic enforcement, people just do what they like, stop in the middle of the road and turn on your hazards=free parking:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058098999

[Deleted User]

Its amazing how a city can change once segregated cycling infrastructure is introduced

TwoWheeledTim

cooperguy wrote: »

This time we build it as part of a Galway transportation strategy designed to increase alternative modes of transport - instead of just building a bridge

I just don't trust them.

Enacting those changes is not a condition for planning. They'll likely build it and say everything is fixed now.

Part of the Galway Transport Strategy is a greenway corridor from the City out to Salthill (and beyond). Councillors say all the right things but when handed part of this on a plate a few weeks ago they ultimately voted against it.

cooperguy

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

I just don't trust them.

Enacting those changes is not a condition for planning. They'll likely build it and say everything is fixed now.

Part of the Galway Transport Strategy is a greenway corridor from the City out to Salthill (and beyond). Councillors say all the right things but when handed part of this on a plate a few weeks ago they ultimately voted against it.

A bunch of the plan cant be done until there is another river crossing, like closing central streets to everything but public transport. Doing nothing because we're afraid we wont get everything on the plan doesnt seem like the best strategy.

TwoWheeledTim

Does the transport strategy have public transport provisions for increased residential areas further out west? I haven't seen any.

Will public transport still be viable for the full 20km commute? Yes but it'll need to be planned in early, I haven't seen details of park and ride style plans. Otherwise the population will grow out that direction until the new road clogs and there is no alternative for those people but to get into their cars every day.

If there is no provision for public transport on the new road, they're creating the new Quincentenary Bridge for the growing population out west.