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2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

Beasty

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Timberrrrrrrr

ELM327 wrote: »

I'd prefer if they actually have the debates.
Cancelling would be a win for the democrats as Joe wouldnt be exposed.

No one is calling for debates to be cancelled though

He posted an opinion piece as if it was fact

[Deleted User]

ELM327 wrote: »

I'd prefer if they actually have the debates.
Cancelling would be a win for the democrats as Joe wouldnt be exposed.

I'd say you should be more concerned about how Trump will respond to basic criticisms...

ELM327

Hector Savage wrote: »

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/03/opinion/trump-biden-presidential-debates-2020.html

No surprise they are trying to cancel the debates, it's a real shame, if they had picked Tulsi Gabbard or Andrew Yang I would have actually backed the democrats, and either of those 2 could take Trump on easily in a debate.

Poor Joe won't even know where he is ...

I'd prefer if they actually have the debates.
Cancelling would be a win for the democrats as Joe wouldnt be exposed.

Igotadose

Apologies if I posted this link earlier. Boards has been very flakey the last few days especially when showing 'latest posts' which end up being a couple days old.

Dan Rather's FB feed listed this document as a dreary must read. It is, it's fairly long, but a good history of the US's failings during Covid. Trump features prominently, no surprise there, but there's plenty of systemic problems. Biden, if elected, and the Democratic party, might address some of them. Trump and the GOP? No chance imo.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/09/coronavirus-american-failure/614191/

Overheal

So it was a known security threat in March and Trump didn't take notice of it at all until a bunch of adolescents started organizing on TikTok to upend his Tulsa rally.

He's worked faster on this than Russian bounties.

Igotadose

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

What is important about this person and their opinions?

Parkland shooting survivor and activist.

Professor Moriarty

biko wrote: »

Totes akws

What is important about this person and their opinions?

biko

Muahahaha wrote: »

Not sure if posted but on Trump v TikTok Kellyanne Conways 15 year old daughter was running a live stream on the platform and was telling her followers to leave 1 star reviews on Trumps hotels and golf clubs. Awkward. Theres a TikTok video of Kellyanne snatching her daughters phone off her.

Totes akws

ollkiller

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Trump is somewhat correct in saying that deaths per population is a meaningless metric.

Take a county with two towns a very large one 100k and a small one 5k. 2k people catch a disease in the small town and they all did. When you look at deaths/population you'd think they were doing well.

I guess for the US, by most of the meaningful metrics they are not doing well though.

Deaths per population is not a meaningless metric.
South Korea. 51 million people. 300 deaths.
USA. 350 million people. 155000 deaths.

If the USA was a good as South Korea it should have 2100 deaths. So as you can see Trump f***ed it up royally.

Quin_Dub

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Trump is somewhat correct in saying that deaths per population is a meaningless metric.

Take a county with two towns a very large one 100k and a small one 5k. 2k people catch a disease in the small town and they all did. When you look at deaths/population you'd think they were doing well.

I guess for the US, by most of the meaningful metrics they are not doing well though.

The same would apply in your example if you were looking at deaths/case ratio.

It's why the Population one has limited value when looking at somewhere like San Marino or The Vatican etc. small changes lead to massive swings in the percentage information.

It's why you can't find a single slice of the data that looks better than the others and then refuse to look at anything else. You have to look at them all equally.

Anyway you slice it , the US is not doing well - Some slices make it look ever so slightly less appalling , but none are a good story.

MrMusician18

Trump is somewhat correct in saying that deaths per population is a meaningless metric.

Take a county with two towns a very large one 100k and a small one 5k. 2k people catch a disease in the small town and they all did. When you look at deaths/population you'd think they were doing well.

I guess for the US, by most of the meaningful metrics they are not doing well though.

Quin_Dub

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Biden will be very well prepared. Trump ambushed Clinton but Biden will have an answer for everything. And hundreds of quotes from Trump's own mouth. As Biden hammers him with facts about his tenure and highlights his incompetence, I expect Trump will resort to angry taunts and insults which will show him up for the shallow egomaniac that he is.

He won't "resort" to that , he'll come straight out of the blocks with that.

Professor Moriarty

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Whatever about that , what these recent interviews have exposed is Trumps lack of preparation and subject matter knowledge.

He lacks any kind of grounding in the information - If he wasn't shown a figure 5 minutes beforehand he falls back to one of his tropes - "No one has done so much in history" , "leading the world" etc.

He won't be able to shout "Kayley, get me those charts that make it look like we are doing a good job" in the middle of the debates.

Biden needs to be prepared with hard data to shut him down each time he does that.

Biden will be very well prepared. Trump ambushed Clinton but Biden will have an answer for everything. And hundreds of quotes from Trump's own mouth. As Biden hammers him with facts about his tenure and highlights his incompetence, I expect Trump will resort to angry taunts and insults which will show him up for the shallow egomaniac that he is.

MadYaker

I wonder why he agreed to do that interview? The interviewer kind of put him at ease at first with a few easy questions and compliments and then switched tack and started asking harder questions and following up his dumb answers and that was when the wheels started to come off. I wouldn't have thought he'd agree to an interview that wasn't totally rehearsed.

Is his campaign in a bit of disarray I wonder? His campaign manager seems like an amateur social media provocateur. I think the fact that he can't have his big rallies has taken the wind out of his sails a bit and it must be getting hard for them to find good people to fill positions. Anyone with ambitions on a long career in Washington is hardly going to be rushing to join his campaign now. Change needs to come from somewhere or he's going to lose big time, and I don't think the change will come from Trump.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Have something soft nearby to occasionally smack yourself in the forehead with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaaTZkqsaxY

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/who-says-that-a-stunned-jonathan-swan-grills-trump-in-heated-back-and-forth-over-covid-19-testing/

Trump: “You know, there are those that say you can test too much. You do know that.”
Swan: “Who says that?”
Trump: “Oh, just read the manuals. Read the books.”
Swan: “Manuals? What manuals?”
Trump: “Read the books. Read the books.”
Swan: “What books?”

Trump: “The point is, because we are so much better at testing than any other country in the world, we show more cases.”
Swan: “The figure I look at is death. And death is going up now. It’s a thousand a day.”
Trump: “If you look at death – take a look at some of these charts.”
The President reached over and picked up a few sheets of paper.
Trump: “Here’s one. Well, right here, United States is lowest in numerous categories. We’re lower than the world.”
Swan: “Lower than the world?”
Trump: “Lower than Europe.”

Swan: “Oh, you’re doing death as a proportion of cases. I’m talking about death as a proportion of population. That’s where the US is really bad. Much worse than Germany, South Korea, et cetera.”
Trump: “You can’t – you can’t do that.”
Swan: “Why can’t I do that?”
Trump: “You have to go by, you have to go by – look. Here is the United States – you have to go by the cases. The cases of death.”
Swan: “Why not as a proportion of population?”
Trump: “What it says is when you have somebody, where there’s a case, the people that live from those cases.”
Swan: “Sure. It’s surely a relevant statistic to say if the US has X population and X percentage of death of that population, opposed to some-”
Trump: “No, because you have to go by the cases.”
Swan: “In South Korea, for example – 51 million population, 300 deaths. It’s like, it’s crazy compared to other countries.”
Trump: “You don’t know that. You don’t know that.”
Swan: “I do. You think they’re faking their statistics? South Korea?”
Trump: “Ahhhhh, I won’t get into that, because I have a very good relationship with the country. But you don’t know that. They have spikes.”
Swan: “Germany, low 9000s?”
Trump: “Here’s one right here, United States. The number of cases – have a look. We’re last. Meaning we’re first.”
Mr Trump was brandishing another chart at this point.
Swan: “Last? I don’t know what we’re first in.”
Trump: “Take a look, it’s cases. And we have cases because of the testing.”
Swan: “I mean, a thousand Americans are dying a day. But I understand, on cases, it’s different.”
Trump: “No but you’re not reporting it correctly, Jonathan.”
Swan: “I think I am.”

Quin_Dub

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Biden served time as a courtroom lawyer. On that basis alone, Trump is in serious trouble come debate time.

Whatever about that , what these recent interviews have exposed is Trumps lack of preparation and subject matter knowledge.

He lacks any kind of grounding in the information - If he wasn't shown a figure 5 minutes beforehand he falls back to one of his tropes - "No one has done so much in history" , "leading the world" etc.

He won't be able to shout "Kayley, get me those charts that make it look like we are doing a good job" in the middle of the debates.

Biden needs to be prepared with hard data to shut him down each time he does that.

Professor Moriarty

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Absolutely - Last time out he could deflect most things away with an "I'll do better" type of statement - The whole "Drain the swamp" schtick.

He simply cannot do that this time around.

He is no longer running on the failings of other peoples tenure and saying that he won't make those mistakes , he is running on having to defend he own actions.

It's a very different proposition and one that he is showing that he is not built for.

Biden served time as a courtroom lawyer. On that basis alone, Trump is in serious trouble come debate time.

Quin_Dub

Deleted User wrote: »

Also a great way to catch him out in debates, he's got 4 years of a presidency to be called out on. He won't take to it well.

Absolutely - Last time out he could deflect most things away with an "I'll do better" type of statement - The whole "Drain the swamp" schtick.

He simply cannot do that this time around.

He is no longer running on the failings of other peoples tenure and saying that he won't make those mistakes , he is running on having to defend he own actions.

It's a very different proposition and one that he is showing that he is not built for.

duploelabs

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they lost their minds when he wore a tan suit.

Djiongate

[Deleted User]

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the biggest takeaway from the interview is that he falls apart when an interviewer challenges his answers. he is used to talking to yes men.

Also a great way to catch him out in debates, he's got 4 years of a presidency to be called out on. He won't take to it well.

ohnonotgmail

the biggest takeaway from the interview is that he falls apart when an interviewer challenges his answers. he is used to talking to yes men.

ohnonotgmail

Cody montana wrote: »

Can you imagine the collective outrage if Obama said that about the 2 deaths from Ebola?

Never mind Trump actually saying that about nearly 160 thousand people.

they lost their minds when he wore a tan suit.

Cody montana

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

shouting "big deal" when the interviewer tell hims that maxwell, the person he wished well, is charged with child sex trafficking is another highlight of that interview.

Can you imagine the collective outrage if Obama said that about the 2 deaths from Ebola?

Never mind Trump actually saying that about nearly 160 thousand people.

Leroy42

Even his line about the death numbers in Florida. The numbers are going up". "They are going down, well that is what I was told yesterday"

To me that strikes me as a man totally out of his depth. Florida is not some obscure backwater, it has been in the forefront of this since the very start. Originlly it was used as a counter weight to NY, and now that the cases are fast increasing and the death numbers it should be to the forefront of his thinking.

But it isn't. He takes whatever number is given to him, and clearly has little interest in getting up to date. He hasn't created a special taskforce or anything.

He just wants all of this to go away, its too hard, too complicated.

His line the other day about Fauci getting high ratings but not him, and then again saying that he isn't being given the credit for the testing numbers show you exactly where his head is. He feels like the wronged party in all of this. He feels that he is having to endure this crisis. Sure people have died, but he faces the prospect of losing an election. The people were going to die anyway, but he was on his way to winning so it is really him that has been most affected!

So what, after 5 months, is the plan? Where is the plan to get the economy going again? What is the plan on getting schooled reopened (simply saying that have to is not a plan). What is the plan to deal with the continued high level of cases?

There is nothing coming out of the WH? Wear a mask and SD. He feels that he should be applauded for his u-turn. And I am happy he finally came around, but that is not nearly enough.

The only conclusion is that they simply have no idea how to handle this or what to do. They are left to simply hoping that a vaccine arrives. THe used spkies in other countries to try to limit to damage of his own numbers, but that only points to the very real possibility that even if they would somehow get this under control in the next 6 to 8 weeks, it is very likely to flare up again once they start to reopen (which already happened when they rushed the reopenings in a few states).

ohnonotgmail

Cody montana wrote: »

He should be removed for that alone.

shouting "big deal" when the interviewer tell hims that maxwell, the person he wished well, is charged with child sex trafficking is another highlight of that interview.

Cody montana

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Interviewer: 1000 people a day are dying

Trump: Yes they are dying, it is what it is.

And still people defend him.

He should be removed for that alone.

Timberrrrrrrr

MadYaker wrote: »

Thats the whole thing. Hard to watch at times!

Interviewer: 1000 people a day are dying

Trump: Yes they are dying, it is what it is.

And still people defend him.

MadYaker

Thats the whole thing. Hard to watch at times!

Leroy42

Hector Savage wrote: »

point is you can see that he wasn't ok on the road in my hypothetical situation, just like you can clearly see something not right with Biden when you compare his speech from 8 years ago.

The problem is that Trump and his supporters made such a deal over nobody being able to comment on Trump mental state as it was outside of the code of practice for medical practitioners.

Therefore, this talk about mental capacity appears to be off-limits, according to Trump and the WH.

But even if it wasn't, the other issue is that it isn't whether Biden is better than everyone else, only that he is better than Trump. That is the position that the US voters find themselves in, yet again.

Having to choose between two flawed candidates. Mamy Trump supporters in 2016 excused Trump's behaviour and their vote for him on the basis that HC was worse.

So whatever mud one tries to throw at Biden, the problem is that we already know that Trump is that and more. There are countless examples of Trump stumbling over words, forgetting peoples name (Tim Apple!) getting stuff wrong, going off on incomprehensible rants, forgetting where he is (Sir, you need to sign the EO!).

Timberrrrrrrr

The same can be said about Trump, Hell the same can be said about most people over a certain age.