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ESB eCars

liamog

Details from the dail on the eCars €10,000,000 expansion programme.

The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-01-24/10/?fbclid=IwAR1eGLQjNFuywCoaB__FJADns7gNOD09DaR9XLueHAKZ8vljfd-kL-_LpDs

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innrain

Kramer wrote: »

Ah here, does that mean he has a 187.5kWh battery?
I thought batteries so large were solely the purview of Tesla, &amp;amp; at that, not even available yet?

I need to read up on this stuff - I'm so out of date.
Mods - maybe a FAQ on these new Kias etc.?

Mea culpa
I don't know how that happened. I could come up with some excuses but unfortunately your point stands.

Kramer

innrain wrote: »

Well provided your battery is under 40% charged you will see 75kWh up to 40%

Ah here, does that mean he has a 187.5kWh battery?
I thought batteries so large were solely the purview of Tesla, & at that, not even available yet?

I need to read up on this stuff - I'm so out of date.
Mods - maybe a FAQ on these new Kias etc.?

Kramer

ewj1978 wrote: »

then if I plug in my E-soul i can still take 75kwh? grand so.

Is your e;SoUl a 2021/22 model year? Have they increased the battery size already?

innrain

Well provided your battery is under 40% charged you will see 75kW up to 40% then it drops to 65kW up to about 55% then to 55kW up to around 75%. Over this it's crawling: 35kW for very short time and then 22kW and slowly ramping down to 2kW

ewj1978

So if a leaf is plugged in on the chademo pulling 48kwh, then if I plug in my E-soul i can still take 75kwh? grand so.

[Deleted User]

The Kilcullen 150 Kw charger wasn't working for a Model 3 driver yesterday when I stopped in on the way to the Airport.

markpb

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

150kw CCS at Kilcullen still not working, tried it earlier.

It worked fine for me earlier today. I even had the unit to myself the entire time. 20% to 85% (50kW) in 45 minutes so I was very happy. Maxed out at 114kW.

Someone else arrived just as I was finishing up but they had to wait for me because of eCars daft decision not to fit 2 x CCS.

Laviski wrote: »

if the 150kw points are still free you can't give out about anyone using them regardless if they are CCS or Chademo

They should never have been free or, at the very least, they should have had an overstay fee right from the start. If you get them, it’s a nice bonus not having to pay but it means you can’t rely on it being available. Last time I was there, a TM3 charged for over an hour. The driver sat in the car for the last twenty minutes, killing time in an effort to presumably drag those precious few kW into what must have been a very full battery.

McGiver

Deleted User wrote:

So the 150 kw at Kilcullen is 2x 75 KW ?

It has two modules 75 kW each.

If only 1 connector is used it draws power from both giving 150 kW.
If 2 connectors are used each module supplies 75 kW to each connector.

Deleted User wrote:

What's this about 4 output charger ?

The charger tech specs sheet describes all possible configurations, there quite a few of them, 4 connector setup is possible.

Ecars didn't think it through (as always) and used the worst possible configuration in terms of bang for the buck - just 1 CCS and 1 Chademo.

[Deleted User]

So the 150 kw at Kilcullen is 2x 75 KW ?

What’s this about 4 output charger ?

Black_Knight

Irishjg wrote: »

Just to clarify, what I was trying to suggest was Ecars could have two tariffs on the 150kW chargers. A top tier tariff for the sole use of the chargers full potential. If the unit is being shared with another user and the output is being split 75/75 then Ecars bill at a slightly lower fee but is still more expensive than the the standard 50kW chargers. Having a higher tariff on the HPC would “encourage” more drivers to use the standard 50kW charger that don’t need the 150 and/or their car isn’t capable of charging at 75/150 kWh.

Won't a flat higher rate on the 150kW unit encourage use of the 50kW one anyways?

The higher power unit has more expensive infrastructure, and can deliver higher power. Only makes sense they charge appropriately. Imagine asking ionity to charge less for slower cars!?

Edit: and I imagine esb will have a rate for charging over 75kW to cover their asses on the split charge

Laviski

Deleted User wrote: »

Back from an Airport run again and stopped in a Mac D, the Lads were hungry, I had the Outlander, it was just easier with luggage, anyway, 2016 Leaf plugged into the 150 Kw and the 50 Kw not in use.

I think the ESB need to educate people more but I think it wouldn't do any good and how would you do it ?

if the 150kw points are still free you can't give out about anyone using them regardless if they are CCS or Chademo user's, haven't seen any price plans for them yet. Once they are released they will charged per electricity unit received can't see how they can charge any other way.

Irishjg

Black_Knight wrote: »

Not a hope. You'll pay for the capability of the charger, not what you pull from it, and the split 75kW is still higher than their 50kW priced ones.
Makes you question why the 50kW unit at ESB portlaoise isn't free since it can't provide the power they advertise.

Just to clarify, what I was trying to suggest was Ecars could have two tariffs on the 150kW chargers. A top tier tariff for the sole use of the chargers full potential. If the unit is being shared with another user and the output is being split 75/75 then Ecars bill at a slightly lower fee but is still more expensive than the the standard 50kW chargers. Having a higher tariff on the HPC would “encourage” more drivers to use the standard 50kW charger that don’t need the 150 and/or their car isn’t capable of charging at 75/150 kWh.

Black_Knight

Irishjg wrote: »

Good point. Could Ecars bill a lower rate if both sides are being used by two cars. If you are charging solo and availing of the chargers full potential get billed at a higher rate.

Not a hope. You'll pay for the capability of the charger, not what you pull from it, and the split 75kW is still higher than their 50kW priced ones.
Makes you question why the 50kW unit at ESB portlaoise isn't free since it can't provide the power they advertise.

slave1

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

150kw CCS at Kilcullen still not working, tried it earlier. Thankfully didn't actually need any charge, just stopped to see if these things could actually be relied on. I answered that question anyway.

The fact it's not working is one thing, but the app says it's available. You can't rely on that system to plan long journeys if the information they're giving out isn't accurate.

I was up and around Donegal last week and all the chargers I visited were up and running, today two of the three I visited were out of action and down as working on the App. Sick to death of phoning eCars about these broken charge points and unreliable App

McGiver

liamog wrote:

This particular model does the same 75kW split. Only two connectors can be used at once. In markets where they have rolled out a 2 CCS and 2 CHAdeMO, its to allow 2 of any car to charge, they also usually do it by placing it between two spaces which is a much more flexible layout.

Right so the 2x CCS & 2x Chademo version basically allocates 75 kW to each connector if 2 are in the use, else it allocates 150 kW, and it allows only 2 connectors to be used at a time. If that's the case then Ecars should absolutely have gone for this configuration, that's much better than 1x CCS & 1x Chademo. Or they should have gone at least for 2x CCS and 1x Chademo.

liamog

McGiver wrote: »

ECARS is a state run company, whatever you call it. They designed the network, they build it and they run it. That's state run in all but the name.

eCars isn't even a company, its a charging network created and operated by a state owned enterprise, a setup which matches many of the charging networks we'd love to have operating here from the Nordics.

liamog

This particular model does the same 75kW split. Only two connectors can be used at once. In markets where they have rolled out a 2 CCS and 2 CHAdeMO, its to allow 2 of any car to charge, they also usually do it by placing it between two spaces which is a much more flexible layout.

McGiver

Irishjg wrote:

I know there are valid arguments against this, but if the 150kW unit cost more to use Iâ€™m pretty sure that would be educational and an effective. Also I am sorry if I offend anyone but I strongly believe the 150kW rig should be exclusively dual CCS. The second 50kW charger that was removed at Kilcullen could and should have been left there with a Chademo/AC without CCS. Everybody catered for and happy with a nice little hub.

That's right.

Erm, yes but the problem is that the triple head is...well...a triple head charger with CCS connector. Wouldn't be surprised if Ecars were unable to configure it.

Irishjg

liamog wrote: »

It's already been confirmed that it's a 75kW split. They'll need to be careful with the pricing, you wouldn't want to be paying extra and get the nerfed speed due to another car connecting.

Good point. Could Ecars bill a lower rate if both sides are being used by two cars. If you are charging solo and availing of the chargers full potential get billed at a higher rate.

McGiver

liamog wrote:

It's already been confirmed that it's a 75kW split. They'll need to be careful with the pricing, you wouldn't want to be paying extra and get the nerfed speed due to another car connecting.

Bad. FFS so that means the Chademo side will virtually always waste at least 33% available power allocated to it (Leafs), or the worst case waste 85% power (Outlander).

So how does that charger handle 4 CCS/Chademo connectors???? The tech specs sheet mentions up to 4 connectors.
Does it leave 37.5 kW for each? That's hardly a high powered charger - that's a joke

liamog

It's already been confirmed that it's a 75kW split. They'll need to be careful with the pricing, you wouldn't want to be paying extra and get the nerfed speed due to another car connecting.

McGiver

liamog wrote:

You'll have to point out the state run network for me, I've not seen it whilst driving around. Is it hidden behind the eCars network, which has been designed, built and operated by ESB, that state owned enterprise just like Fortum in Norway is a state owned Finnish energy company.

ECARS is a state run company, whatever you call it. They designed the network, they build it and they run it. That's state run in all but the name.

McGiver

Deleted User wrote:

I think the ESB need to educate people more but I think it wouldn't do any good and how would you do it ?

That's going to be sorted by higher price of the 150 kW charger, I hope.

Although, some people are thick regardless...

Can imagine Outlanders plugging into the 150 kW Chademo side. Would like to see how that load balancing works if the Outlander takes 10 kW, I don't think it will leave the 140 kW for the CCS side.

Wouldn't harm testing this in situ - we'd need one Leaf and one Tesla - if it's properly load balanced the Tesla should be taking around 100 kW. If it's not then I'm afraid the Tesla will take only 75 kW (as the charger allegedly comprises of two 75 kW modules).

Royale with Cheese

150kw CCS at Kilcullen still not working, tried it earlier. Thankfully didn't actually need any charge, just stopped to see if these things could actually be relied on. I answered that question anyway.

The fact it's not working is one thing, but the app says it's available. You can't rely on that system to plan long journeys if the information they're giving out isn't accurate.

Irishjg

Deleted User wrote: »

2016 Leaf plugged into the 150 Kw and the 50 Kw not in use.

I think the ESB need to educate people more but I think it wouldn't do any good and how would you do it ?

I know there are valid arguments against this, but if the 150kW unit cost more to use I’m pretty sure that would be educational and an effective.
Also I am sorry if I offend anyone but I strongly believe the 150kW rig should be exclusively dual CCS. The second 50kW charger that was removed at Kilcullen could and should have been left there with a Chademo/AC without CCS. Everybody catered for and happy with a nice little hub.

[Deleted User]

Back from an Airport run again and stopped in a Mac D, the Lads were hungry, I had the Outlander, it was just easier with luggage, anyway, 2016 Leaf plugged into the 150 Kw and the 50 Kw not in use.

I think the ESB need to educate people more but I think it wouldn't do any good and how would you do it ?

liamog

McGiver wrote: »

State initiated networks are quite common, but they are usually tendered out, not state owned, at least not directly. Some subsidies are also common but state-run network is not common at all. That's an Irish niche

You'll have to point out the state run network for me, I've not seen it whilst driving around. Is it hidden behind the eCars network, which has been designed, built and operated by ESB, that state owned enterprise just like Fortum in Norway is a state owned Finnish energy company.

I think if the state (NTA) had had more of say in the design of the network and left the build and operation to ESB we'd be in a much better situation.

McGiver

unkel wrote:

Nonsense. In most other countries the private sector is doing exactly this. You won't find any state operated network of fast charging stations in the Netherlands, a country years ahead of us when it comes to EVs and their infrastructure. There are fast charging hubs everywhere and no queuing either.

KCross wrote:

The reality is that we are a small island with not alot of financial viabiity for operators to spend millions and make a decent profit over the next 5-10 years. Subsidy is required.

Back on topic.

You're both wrong and right.

State initiated networks are quite common, but they are usually tendered out, not state owned, at least not directly. Some subsidies are also common but state-run network is not common at all. That's an Irish niche

The state should just tender the network out to multiple operators to ensure competition and then it doesn't really matter if the operators are private or semi-state as long as they run it right as per the tender.

Now, for KCross, Virta is a quite large charging network provider from Finland. It started by several Finnish energy utility companies coming together to form the company. Finland is much larger than Ireland, but almost the same population, also not that many EVs either. So if it was possible in Finland with lower population density, larger area then it must be possible in Ireland. I don't know if the Finnish state chipped in...

Virta network now have 400 chargers in Finland and its network spans Scandinavia, the Baltic states, Central and Eastern Europe.

https://www.virta.global/company

I was surprised to see a Finnish operator charger in the middle of the main arterial motorway in Czechia, at an actual charging hub, along with other chargers and Tesla superchargers all of that sheltered at a large petrol station. Again, I don't know if the installation involved state subsidy, but the chargers are there available as a service at a cost, and that's in a country with half the per capita EVs than Ireland and lower price level so one would say Ireland would have higher business potential and feasibility.

Silent Running

kanuseeme wrote: »

Sure but a 400 km car costs what? 37k to 100k new, 2nd hand tesla 30 k, less if your lucky, and then worry about screens/door handles and computers etc.

Will a 400km car will do 400km in 5 years time?

Even if I had one, I would not keep it charged to 100% all of time, its a bad thing right? So Its now a 320 km car in the morning after charging to 80%, my regular driving is not much 40 km or so, now I am home with 280 km so that means any call/need from work or family means I need a charge, as I am 160 km from anything of importance.
With the present state of the network that could mean 30 minutes or more I would not have or care to waste.

I see the benefits of BEV but most of you with one also have a 2nd car to fall back on, I don't.

I always have enough petrol in my car to get me to a 24 hour petrol station and would pass by them not go to them, last time I put petrol in was in April a whole 25 euros worth, with 11 L still left in it ATM.

Right now I am going to town, while she is in lidl I am going to charge for 25 minutes or so and then home all for the pricely sum of 1.80 euro if some one is charging, I am down to 8 liters. fingers crossed :D:D

BEV is my only car. 80% for me is 380kms.

Even when I had the 28kWh Ioniq I was never caught short of a charge. I will admit that I need to think about it... for a few seconds after I park: does the car need to be plugged in? Nah, be grand.

But then I don't need 320 Kms to get to work and back.

Even if I did, I still have 380Kms at 80%.

I'm done with fossil fuelled cars.

Cyrus

We are a one car family and have been for about 7 years now second car just wasn’t getting the use .

First time ev owner so etron 50 is that one car

Will update my post with how we get on on long trips etc