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ESB eCars

liamog

Details from the dail on the eCars €10,000,000 expansion programme.

The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-01-24/10/?fbclid=IwAR1eGLQjNFuywCoaB__FJADns7gNOD09DaR9XLueHAKZ8vljfd-kL-_LpDs

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liamog

This particular model does the same 75kW split. Only two connectors can be used at once. In markets where they have rolled out a 2 CCS and 2 CHAdeMO, its to allow 2 of any car to charge, they also usually do it by placing it between two spaces which is a much more flexible layout.

liamog

McGiver wrote: »

ECARS is a state run company, whatever you call it. They designed the network, they build it and they run it. That's state run in all but the name.

eCars isn't even a company, its a charging network created and operated by a state owned enterprise, a setup which matches many of the charging networks we'd love to have operating here from the Nordics.

McGiver

liamog wrote:

This particular model does the same 75kW split. Only two connectors can be used at once. In markets where they have rolled out a 2 CCS and 2 CHAdeMO, its to allow 2 of any car to charge, they also usually do it by placing it between two spaces which is a much more flexible layout.

Right so the 2x CCS & 2x Chademo version basically allocates 75 kW to each connector if 2 are in the use, else it allocates 150 kW, and it allows only 2 connectors to be used at a time. If that's the case then Ecars should absolutely have gone for this configuration, that's much better than 1x CCS & 1x Chademo. Or they should have gone at least for 2x CCS and 1x Chademo.

slave1

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

150kw CCS at Kilcullen still not working, tried it earlier. Thankfully didn't actually need any charge, just stopped to see if these things could actually be relied on. I answered that question anyway.

The fact it's not working is one thing, but the app says it's available. You can't rely on that system to plan long journeys if the information they're giving out isn't accurate.

I was up and around Donegal last week and all the chargers I visited were up and running, today two of the three I visited were out of action and down as working on the App. Sick to death of phoning eCars about these broken charge points and unreliable App

Black_Knight

Irishjg wrote: »

Good point. Could Ecars bill a lower rate if both sides are being used by two cars. If you are charging solo and availing of the chargers full potential get billed at a higher rate.

Not a hope. You'll pay for the capability of the charger, not what you pull from it, and the split 75kW is still higher than their 50kW priced ones.
Makes you question why the 50kW unit at ESB portlaoise isn't free since it can't provide the power they advertise.

Irishjg

Black_Knight wrote: »

Not a hope. You'll pay for the capability of the charger, not what you pull from it, and the split 75kW is still higher than their 50kW priced ones.
Makes you question why the 50kW unit at ESB portlaoise isn't free since it can't provide the power they advertise.

Just to clarify, what I was trying to suggest was Ecars could have two tariffs on the 150kW chargers. A top tier tariff for the sole use of the chargers full potential. If the unit is being shared with another user and the output is being split 75/75 then Ecars bill at a slightly lower fee but is still more expensive than the the standard 50kW chargers. Having a higher tariff on the HPC would “encourage” more drivers to use the standard 50kW charger that don’t need the 150 and/or their car isn’t capable of charging at 75/150 kWh.

Laviski

Deleted User wrote: »

Back from an Airport run again and stopped in a Mac D, the Lads were hungry, I had the Outlander, it was just easier with luggage, anyway, 2016 Leaf plugged into the 150 Kw and the 50 Kw not in use.

I think the ESB need to educate people more but I think it wouldn't do any good and how would you do it ?

if the 150kw points are still free you can't give out about anyone using them regardless if they are CCS or Chademo user's, haven't seen any price plans for them yet. Once they are released they will charged per electricity unit received can't see how they can charge any other way.

Black_Knight

Irishjg wrote: »

Just to clarify, what I was trying to suggest was Ecars could have two tariffs on the 150kW chargers. A top tier tariff for the sole use of the chargers full potential. If the unit is being shared with another user and the output is being split 75/75 then Ecars bill at a slightly lower fee but is still more expensive than the the standard 50kW chargers. Having a higher tariff on the HPC would “encourage” more drivers to use the standard 50kW charger that don’t need the 150 and/or their car isn’t capable of charging at 75/150 kWh.

Won't a flat higher rate on the 150kW unit encourage use of the 50kW one anyways?

The higher power unit has more expensive infrastructure, and can deliver higher power. Only makes sense they charge appropriately. Imagine asking ionity to charge less for slower cars!?

Edit: and I imagine esb will have a rate for charging over 75kW to cover their asses on the split charge

[Deleted User]

So the 150 kw at Kilcullen is 2x 75 KW ?

What’s this about 4 output charger ?

McGiver

Deleted User wrote:

So the 150 kw at Kilcullen is 2x 75 KW ?

It has two modules 75 kW each.

If only 1 connector is used it draws power from both giving 150 kW.
If 2 connectors are used each module supplies 75 kW to each connector.

Deleted User wrote:

What's this about 4 output charger ?

The charger tech specs sheet describes all possible configurations, there quite a few of them, 4 connector setup is possible.

Ecars didn't think it through (as always) and used the worst possible configuration in terms of bang for the buck - just 1 CCS and 1 Chademo.

markpb

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

150kw CCS at Kilcullen still not working, tried it earlier.

It worked fine for me earlier today. I even had the unit to myself the entire time. 20% to 85% (50kW) in 45 minutes so I was very happy. Maxed out at 114kW.

Someone else arrived just as I was finishing up but they had to wait for me because of eCars daft decision not to fit 2 x CCS.

Laviski wrote: »

if the 150kw points are still free you can't give out about anyone using them regardless if they are CCS or Chademo

They should never have been free or, at the very least, they should have had an overstay fee right from the start. If you get them, it’s a nice bonus not having to pay but it means you can’t rely on it being available. Last time I was there, a TM3 charged for over an hour. The driver sat in the car for the last twenty minutes, killing time in an effort to presumably drag those precious few kW into what must have been a very full battery.

[Deleted User]

The Kilcullen 150 Kw charger wasn't working for a Model 3 driver yesterday when I stopped in on the way to the Airport.

ewj1978

So if a leaf is plugged in on the chademo pulling 48kwh, then if I plug in my E-soul i can still take 75kwh? grand so.

innrain

Well provided your battery is under 40% charged you will see 75kW up to 40% then it drops to 65kW up to about 55% then to 55kW up to around 75%. Over this it's crawling: 35kW for very short time and then 22kW and slowly ramping down to 2kW

Kramer

ewj1978 wrote: »

then if I plug in my E-soul i can still take 75kwh? grand so.

Is your e;SoUl a 2021/22 model year? Have they increased the battery size already?

Kramer

innrain wrote: »

Well provided your battery is under 40% charged you will see 75kWh up to 40%

Ah here, does that mean he has a 187.5kWh battery?
I thought batteries so large were solely the purview of Tesla, & at that, not even available yet?

I need to read up on this stuff - I'm so out of date.
Mods - maybe a FAQ on these new Kias etc.?

innrain

Kramer wrote: »

Ah here, does that mean he has a 187.5kWh battery?
I thought batteries so large were solely the purview of Tesla, &amp;amp; at that, not even available yet?

I need to read up on this stuff - I'm so out of date.
Mods - maybe a FAQ on these new Kias etc.?

Mea culpa
I don't know how that happened. I could come up with some excuses but unfortunately your point stands.

Silent Running

innrain wrote: »

Well provided your battery is under 40% charged you will see 75kW up to 40% then it drops to 65kW up to about 55% then to 55kW up to around 75%. Over this it's crawling: 35kW for very short time and then 22kW and slowly ramping down to 2kW

Hmmm. My Niro will take 76kW at 53%.

Your information probably comes from some expert though. Mine only comes from the car itself.

innrain

I have also seen lately at the 50kW chargers the drop to 35kW happening after 75% (used to be a bit before at around 73%). That is for me the point when I stop and leave. I don't know if that is related to the software upgrade or it is just the higher temps. I have also seen it charging at 52kW for few times which could be a bit much for a 50kW charger considering the losses. The charging curves from fastned are the best I found so far and they matched mostly my observations.

Cyrus

innrain wrote: »

I have also seen lately at the 50kW chargers the drop to 35kW happening after 75% (used to be a bit before at around 73%). That is for me the point when I stop and leave. I don't know if that is related to the software upgrade or it is just the higher temps. I have also seen it charging at 52kW for few times which could be a bit much for a 50kW charger considering the losses. The charging curves from fastned are the best I found so far and they matched mostly my observations.

its the car that does that rather than the charger, or am i wrong?

JohnC.

Cyrus wrote: »

its the car that does that rather than the charger, or am i wrong?

Yeah, the car. Technically, the charger is in the car, the power unit (ecars, Ionity or whatever) is just providing power to it as fast as the car wants it up to its own top limit.

MJohnston

JohnC. wrote: »

Yeah, the car. Technically, the charger is in the car, the power unit (ecars, Ionity or whatever) is just providing power to it as fast as the car wants it up to its own top limit.

That's not quite correct either:

For AC charging units, your car has an onboard convertor to convert from AC to DC. Then that DC is used to charge the battery.

For DC units, there's no conversion required, so the power is fed directly to the battery. The car is communicating with the power unit to determine and regulate the power flow, based on a bunch of factors.

AndyBoBandy

Stopped into Kilcullen today to try out the Super Warp 150kWh charger, and was a little underwhelmed.

Arrived at 40% SoC and plugged in immediately after an eGolf had finished up. Saw an initial spike of about 66kWh but then almost immediately it went down to around 50kWh, and then gradually reduced to about 37kWh by the time I finished up on 82%. A Leaf plugged into the CHAdeMO which had no effect on my rate of charge (which was about 47kWh at that stage), so at least that’s an improvement....

A guy pulled in to use the 50kWh triple head unit in an Ionic just as I was about to finish up, so I gave him the heads up that I was finishing up and to use the faster (& still free) unit instead).

JPA

kW!

innrain

What car?

AndyBoBandy

innrain wrote: »

What car?

Model 3 SR+

And sorry, kW...... not kWh

Irishjg

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Model 3 SR+

And sorry, kW...... not kWh

On paper, in ideal conditions your 40% to 82% should have taken 16 minutes @ ROC 75kWh. How long did the actual charging time take ?

AndyBoBandy

Irishjg wrote: »

On paper, in ideal conditions your 40% to 82% should have taken 16 minutes @ ROC 75kWh. How long did the actual charging time take ?

25m 40s and I got 20.464kWh

Irishjg

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

25m 40s and I got 20.464kWh

That’s super info and great detail to share. Many thanks. It would be interesting to repeat the same charge with sole use of the 150 without having the load split to see if you get a better result on your charging curve and time difference. BTW any idea how long a similar charge takes on the 50 ?

Irishjg

Just to give you a comparison I last charged at Kilcullen in February and got 19.20 kWh in 24.55 so not a massive difference. That was the 50kW charger obviously and I’m driving a Kona.