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Post primary return to schools roadmap

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https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/7acad-reopening-our-post-primary-schools/#additional-guidelines-and-procedures

A thread to discuss issues.

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ClydeTallyBump

I'm watching Norma here on Oireachtas TV here, just reading through a summary of the plan again.

The Ceann Comhairle wanted to adjorn, basically preventing the Opposition from asking her more questions and commenting. Thankfully Gary Gannon said no.

So basically the new 120 Guidance positions are just the government giving back all the posts that were lost in 2011.

Apparently the July Provision had the the highest number of schools and students participating this year so it shows 'great community spirit and resilience'.

She just said that coursework and practical project deadlines will be extended. She also said that there won't be curriculum changes just change to the exam papers. I was hoping we might be allowed to leave out specific topics/sections etc.

It is crazy to think the Dail won't be back now until the 15th September.

ClydeTallyBump

Bananaleaf wrote: »

And yet I swear that on Newstalk this evening, during one of the news bulletins, the reader said that Paschal Donohue stated that the country would benefit economically from the reopening of schools.

I swear I heard that. Did anyone else?

I didn't hear it but it would not surprise me.

Bananaleaf

I'd say they will broaden the exam paper choice, which will possibly mean that you can leave out certain sections. But don't go expecting any further detail or clarification on that, whatever you do!

Bananaleaf

ClydeTallyBump wrote: »

I didn't hear it but it would not surprise me.

I think I am actually going to open up the PC and try listen back and see if I can find it, if that is possible.

Bananaleaf

ClydeTallyBump wrote: »

It is crazy to think the Dail won't be back now until the 15th September.

As I read this sentence, the image of a cartoon character with their fingers in their ears after having just thrown a grenade popped into my head :pac:

rainbowtrout

ClydeTallyBump wrote: »

She just said that coursework and practical project deadlines will be brought forward. She also said that there won't be curriculum changes just change to the exam papers. I was hoping we might be allowed to leave out specific topics/sections etc.

It is crazy to think the Dail won't be back now until the 15th September.

Hmmmm. I thought the idea was to give more time to the projects not take it away.

They can’t cut sections out of a course because some teachers would have those sections done and would then still have to get the rest of the course finished.

mirrorwall14

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Hmmmm. I thought the idea was to give more time to the projects not take it away.

They can’t cut sections out of a course because some teachers would have those sections done and would then still have to get the rest of the course finished.

It does need to be done in such a way that sections can be skipped however. There’s a lot of time lost for some students and teachers. And I’m back in fifth year maths this year, if we get shut down at any stage then getting the course done will be difficult as the time is so incredibly tight already. I’ve a little more leeway with the music timing

Random sample

I can think exactly what choices I want put in in each of my subjects and levels. It would be very easy for my subjects to add choice and remove a few weeks work. It would put me in quite a good position with my 6th years.

Rosita

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I'd say they will broaden the exam paper choice, which will possibly mean that you can leave out certain sections. But don't go expecting any further detail or clarification on that, whatever you do!

It is so predictable that we’ll be chipping away in November/December heading towards the Mocks still in the dark about changes to the exams.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Rosita wrote: »

It is so predictable that we’ll be chipping away in November/December heading towards the Mocks still in the dark about changes to the exams.

I'll believe it when I see it but the changes for each subject are supposed to be provided in September.

Like I said, we've received late communication so often from the Dept before that I'll believe it when I see it.

am_zarathustra

It's difficult to see how they could cut sections given different schemes are followed.

In maths the obvious thing to do is to give a choice in section A, answer 6/7 and then a choice in section B, answer 3/4. I have honours maths going into 6th year. To be fair, most of them have remote learning a good go, we were a little ahead going in and now maybe 3 weeks behind. With no trips I'd nearly make that up. But it will be tight. I've 6th year biology too and like music I'd be grand, tight but ok

Mardy Bum

I'd be very surprised if things were not almost identical to how we left in terms of class numbers. You can't split classes when you have no rooms. LCA and Ty classes not participating in work experience weekly means even more pressure on schools that are bursting pre Covid.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if things were not almost identical to how we left in terms of class numbers. You can't split classes when you have no rooms. LCA and Ty classes not participating in work experience weekly means even more pressure on schools that are bursting pre Covid.

I agree.

They can't split classes or reduce numbers because the students would have no room to go to and no extra teacher to supervise.

Masks where SD can't be observed will be the approach for most of us I'd guess.

Daisy 55

Rosita wrote: »

It is so predictable that we’ll be chipping away in November/December heading towards the Mocks still in the dark about changes to the exams.

Is there even any point to mocks? The layout of papers may not be the same or even decided! Greater incentive to cheat now if calculated grades remain any possibility. Even this year teachers were to use mock results cautiously.

Bananaleaf

Daisy 55 wrote: »

Is there even any point to mocks? The layout of papers may not be the same or even decided! Greater incentive to cheat now if calculated grades remain any possibility. Even this year teachers were to use mock results cautiously.

Not to mention the risks of contamination from handling all the examination papers.

am_zarathustra

I'm putting a few boxes in my prep room so leave correcting in for 48 hours or more before touching it. Again, most teachers won't have the space for this unfortunately

Dave0301

UK teacher here, and from what I can see, the UK seem intent on having all kids back in school as well no matter what. I am in a private school here, so they have been throwing money at the situation, but I still think it won't run smoothly.

Given what is being proposed back home, I am not sure how long it will last with having all students in everyday given the lack of space/staff available.

Postgrad10

Did I hear plans for Scotland’s schools to return on 11th of August? Didn’t they just get their summer holidays?

Dave0301

Postgrad10 wrote: »

Did I hear plans for Scotland’s schools to return on 11th of August? Didn’t they just get their summer holidays?

Start to return then, but some schools will be the week after. I think Scottish schools usually finish around the end of June and come back in the middle of August.

Could be a good early indicator as to how other schools will fare with all students back on site.

Rosita

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I'm putting a few boxes in my prep room so leave correcting in for 48 hours or more before touching it. Again, most teachers won't have the space for this unfortunately

I honestly think that teachers will have to be a bit more imaginative with regard to the nature of homework given and the correcting it under the current situation.

Certainly if I have to endure double or hour long classes with many of the groups I teach they'll be doing much 'homework' in class and highlighting their problems there and then rather than me trucking around with a heap of copies when I won't even have my own room.

Indeed, for all the effect I see feedback and homework having in many cases it might be more effective this year.

Bananaleaf

Bananaleaf wrote: »

And yet I swear that on Newstalk this evening, during one of the news bulletins, the reader said that Paschal Donohue stated that the country would benefit economically from the reopening of schools.

I swear I heard that. Did anyone else?

Edited to add that I haven't had any luck finding where it was said, but I'll resume the search tomorrow!

I found the news clip and have it saved on my laptop. Anybody know how I can upload a sound file to here or if I can? It's 38 seconds long.

am_zarathustra

Rosita wrote: »

I honestly think that teachers will have to be a bit more imaginative with regard to the nature of homework given and the correcting it under the current situation.

Certainly if I have to endure double or hour long classes with many of the groups I teach they'll be doing much 'homework' in class and highlighting their problems there and then rather than me trucking around with a heap of copies when I won't even have my own room.

Indeed, for all the effect I see feedback and homework having in many cases it might be more effective this year.

My younger students are stone mad about Microsoft forms on teams so I'm hoping to use that a bit. They liked how they could track results across time!

It's hard to know what to do for older students though

wirelessdude01

Dave0301 wrote: »

UK teacher here, and from what I can see, the UK seem intent on having all kids back in school as well no matter what. I am in a private school here, so they have been throwing money at the situation, but I still think it won't run smoothly.

Given what is being proposed back home, I am not sure how long it will last with having all students in everyday given the lack of space/staff available.

In what sense is money being thrown at the situation? What measure are being implemented with the money?

Bananaleaf

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

In what sense is money being thrown at the situation? What measure are being implemented with the money?

Yeah, this is what I would like to know too. Do we know of the steps taken by any of these schools who have successfully reopened? Would be helpful because then we can demand similar. Would really strengthen our case if we had that kind of proof

ClydeTallyBump

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Hmmmm. I thought the idea was to give more time to the projects not take it away.

Yes, my bad. I meant to write extended. I shouldn't be typing so late at night:)

ClydeTallyBump

Rosita wrote: »

I honestly think that teachers will have to be a bit more imaginative with regard to the nature of homework given and the correcting it under the current situation.

Certainly if I have to endure double or hour long classes with many of the groups I teach they'll be doing much 'homework' in class and highlighting their problems there and then rather than me trucking around with a heap of copies when I won't even have my own room.

Indeed, for all the effect I see feedback and homework having in many cases it might be more effective this year.

I agree regarding 'homework' especially at JC level, being done towards the end of class or as part of a class. I teach LC RE so with regards to essays, I am going to ask students to type them and share them with me on Google Drive where possible. I started this last September giving them an option regarding how they submitted work so I am very glad that a good number of them submit work this way.

I want to try reduce what I handle as much as possible especially copies. I'm sure quite a few of us have had unpleasant experiences with copies before (snot etc.) so I am really going to try avoid them.

LW2018

Has anybody applied to be the school aide for the reopening? Ours is starting Tuesday morning and then in everyday until the school reopens. Haven’t heard of anyone from school being interested in the role yet so unsure what management will be faced with if that situation arises.

wirelessdude01

LW2018 wrote: »

Has anybody applied to be the school aide for the reopening? Ours is starting Tuesday morning and then in everyday until the school reopens. Haven’t heard of anyone from school being interested in the role yet so unsure what management will be faced with if that situation arises.

Hasn't even been mentioned to us.

Random sample

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Hasn't even been mentioned to us.

No mention here either. We did get asked about the LWR position though.

mirrorwall14

We got asked today. It’s a massive job if you ask me. Way beyond the 2hr timetable alleviation they are offering