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Post primary return to schools roadmap

Random sample

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/7acad-reopening-our-post-primary-schools/#additional-guidelines-and-procedures

A thread to discuss issues.

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pandoraj09

This thread is very helpful. Does it say in the Roadmap that lockers are not allowed anymore?? How is that going to work when we have students who don't bring any books home at the end of the day?? I'll go crazy if I'm moving around from room to room. Seating plans having to be redone, depending on the room you're in etc. The kids being in the room before the teacher is a bad idea. Good point made by someone above about vulnerable kids and bullying. In our school we're always told to lock the doors of the rooms and not allow kids in without a teacher.
Luckily I have a little office with a kettle and my own cup, plate, cutlery and fridge. I normally avoid the staff room at lunch time as it's too noisy and crowded but not everyone has an office.
PT meetings will surely have to be cancelled. Vsware or whatever platform schools are using, will have to be opened to parents and phone calls to/from teachers if necessary instead. Usually at PTMs the parents who turn up are not the ones we want to see anyway...
Wonder what will happen re the dreaded Croke Park hours???
Fire drill is an interesting one. We have to have it....
The extra time cleaning is worrying. If I'm in my own room it's easy for me to keep my work area clean, but moving around???? Nightmare.
We have a book rental scheme and a lot of the books have no covers at all, let alone plastic ones that the kids are going to keep wiped down. There are a few that never have books/exam papers and I usually just lend them a spare book I have to keep the peace. Obviously I can't do that anymore...

pandoraj09

Also, there are sanitisers you can buy on Amazon that sanitise using UV light. A family member uses them every day in her business and apparently they work..
I got one delivered. Cost 19.99. It opens up and fits a phone, keys etc and takes 8 minutes to sanitise them. Would be a good thing to use at the end of the day before we go home...

ascophyllum

We have been told the staffroom is completely off-limits, given that every last room will be utilised, where will we work during non-teaching periods? In our cars? Prepare a lesson in your car? The issue of Irish schools having no staff work areas is one that needs mentioning too. Our colleagues on the continent have offices! Dedicated workspaces! We usually work in the staffroom at the same table as people eating lunch, inches away from them.

pandoraj09

Is that in the Roadmap, that the staffroom is to be used for classes??? That's crazy>

rainbowtrout

ascophyllum wrote: »

We have been told the staffroom is completely off-limits, given that every last room will be utilised, where will we work during non-teaching periods? In our cars? Prepare a lesson in your car? The issue of Irish schools having no staff work areas is one that needs mentioning too. Our colleagues on the continent have offices! Dedicated workspaces! We usually work in the staffroom at the same table as people eating lunch, inches away from them.

Even aside from work, where are you supposed to go during a free class in that situation? I'm a science teacher, if I'm not in the lab somebody else is.

pandoraj09

School will be a very bleak, lonely place this coming year....

Bananaleaf

pandoraj09 wrote: »

This thread is very helpful. Does it say in the Roadmap that lockers are not allowed anymore?? How is that going to work when we have students who don't bring any books home at the end of the day?? I'll go crazy if I'm moving around from room to room. Seating plans having to be redone, depending on the room you're in etc. The kids being in the room before the teacher is a bad idea. Good point made by someone above about vulnerable kids and bullying. In our school we're always told to lock the doors of the rooms and not allow kids in without a teacher.
Luckily I have a little office with a kettle and my own cup, plate, cutlery and fridge. I normally avoid the staff room at lunch time as it's too noisy and crowded but not everyone has an office.
PT meetings will surely have to be cancelled. Vsware or whatever platform schools are using, will have to be opened to parents and phone calls to/from teachers if necessary instead. Usually at PTMs the parents who turn up are not the ones we want to see anyway...
Wonder what will happen re the dreaded Croke Park hours???
Fire drill is an interesting one. We have to have it....
The extra time cleaning is worrying. If I'm in my own room it's easy for me to keep my work area clean, but moving around???? Nightmare.
We have a book rental scheme and a lot of the books have no covers at all, let alone plastic ones that the kids are going to keep wiped down. There are a few that never have books/exam papers and I usually just lend them a spare book I have to keep the peace. Obviously I can't do that anymore...

Nothing in the roadmap about lockers not being allowed. However, it does say that all available classroom space will need to be used so some furniture might have to be removed to make room. If you have lockers in classrooms, these will have to go.

I guess if the lockers are on the corridors they aren't a problem in terms of space. But they are a problem if they encourage kids to be gathering outside of their designated pods (still can't see how this is going to work)

You might have had your own room last year, but if kids given base rooms you will quite likely lose it this year. You should still keep your office though, unless it will be needed as an isolation room, but you should try to keep that.

Yeah ... there will be no giving them a spare book. No borrowing from one another either or sharing between two! I'm a language teacher and have so many little games that I have made up over the years that I love using, but can't do any of that either. Big deal I know, but it's just a shame.

Not sorry to see the back of all that 'horseshoe desk formation' crap tho :pac:

I for one am very interested in what stance my management are going to take on masks/visors. They won't make them mandatory and will say you can wear if you feel comfortable doing so. But I'm wondering what they will do and I'm wondering if they will be encouraged in a certain direction by the ETBs, ie: wear the masks to set a good example or don't wear the masks, it makes school a scary place. Will tell us a lot about how they view our safety

Bananaleaf

pandoraj09 wrote: »

Is that in the Roadmap, that the staffroom is to be used for classes??? That's crazy>

Not specifically in the roadmap, but schools are told to use all space available. Your staff rooms, work rooms, large offices, oratory, PE hall will all be, at the very least, considered

DubLad69

Is anyone considering making a submission to their principals around their concerns or potential solutions? Or are they waiting until the principal contacts the staff first?

I'm also conscious that this is also meant to be their summer break.

Bananaleaf

DubLad69 wrote: »

Is anyone considering making a submission to their principals around their concerns or potential solutions? Or are they waiting until the principal contacts the staff first?

I've sent one to mine.

Rosita

I think it is unrealistic to think of a staffroom as anything other than an absolute necessity, no less so than toilets or the secretary's office. It is out of bounds as a classroom - let's get real. If anything staffrooms will have to increase in size. I know of one school that is planning to have three staff rooms next year. If a school cannot accommodate its staff we're at nothing.

feedthegoat

Rosita wrote: »

I think it is unrealistic to think of a staffroom as anything other than an absolute necessity, no less so than toilets or the secretary's office. It is out of bounds as a classroom - let's get real. If anything staffrooms will have to increase in size. I know of one school that is planning to have three staff rooms next year. If a school cannot accommodate its staff we're at nothing.

Staggered breaktimes will ensure, in most schools, that social distancing will be possible in the staffroom. Many teachers may decide not to frequent it anyway. Schools will be changed places on our return.

F5500

At this rate it sounds like we'll be planning classes and eating our lunches in our cars.

Icsics

Wonder will the Dail have the absolute cheek to return to the Convention Centre in Sept / Oct, while we’re all exposed in school, they probably will!

Bananaleaf

Icsics wrote: »

Wonder will the Dail have the absolute cheek to return to the Convention Centre in Sept / Oct, while we’re all exposed in school, they probably will!

If all the ones in there who are still on the Teaching Council register come back to the schools and give us a dig out, they might not have to!

Rosita

feedthegoat wrote: »

Staggered breaktimes will ensure, in most schools, that social distancing will be possible in the staffroom. Many teachers may decide not to frequent it anyway. Schools will be changed places on our return.

But breaks have faded into the background in relevance regarding the staffroom. Looks like we are looking at the prospect of all teachers moving from room to room and nobody having a base room to which to retreat and relax/prepare during down times. That can't be staggered. Teachers currently without a designated room are well used to this. The idea of not having an adequate staff area for that especially if everyone now needs it is unacceptable at the most basic level.

Bananaleaf

Rosita wrote: »

But breaks have faded into the background in relevance regarding the staffroom. Looks like we are looking at the prospect of all teachers moving from room to room and nobody having a base room to which to retreat and relax/prepare during down times. That can't be staggered. Teachers currently without a designated room are well used to this. The idea of not having an adequate staff area for that especially if everyone now needs it is unacceptable at the most basic level.

I won't be using the staff room when we go back. I'm waiting to hear what the plan for our place is, so that I can make alternative arrangements for myself.

However .... I think it is very dangerous to allow the staff room to be used for anything other than its initial intended purpose. If there is nowhere to take breaks, breaks won't be taken. And if we allow them to take away the room, we are telling them we are okay with not having breaks.

In any school I was ever in, I always remember if I were in a work room, classroom, in an office or on a corridor, I was fair game for anyone who needed a 'quick job' done. The staff room was always the ONE place nobody had the nerve to come into and start asking people to 'just throw an eye on Mr X's science class there for a minute'

Random sample

We are losing our teacher based classrooms. And our higher and ordinary level classes for juniors in English, Irish and maths.

On a quick count, we do not have enough normal classrooms for each class in the school, so I don’t know how that is going to work. Maybe ty will be based in computer rooms, or they will wander to practical rooms or rooms vacated by other year groups while they are in practicals... which would cancel out the benefits of student base rooms.

We are also going to double classes. I don’t know how that will work for subjects that have 1 period a week, or 5 periods a week, but I suppose I’ll find out soon enough.

I don’t know where I’m going to store all the bits in my room that I’ve built up over the years. Or the bits that I need day to day. Or all the nice little extras I have in my room, like the boxes of spare pens, the marker holder on my white board the inspirational posters, the subject specific posters ..... gone!

Maybe one of the practical teachers will take in my homeless plants and decorations!

scrubs33

I think I’ve purposely been avoiding thinking too much about it but I bit the bullet this morning and looked at my LC class numbers over the past few years. The lowest I had 6 years ago was 25 up to an eye watering 34 2 years ago. To cope with those numbers I stripped everything out of the room so all low, medium and high hanging fruit is gone in terms of creating space. Now it looks like the other LC teacher in my area will be going so I could have two massive groups. I don’t know but I’m going to put my head back in the sand until after the bank holiday...

am_zarathustra

Have many teachers got word from their principals? Anyone not keeping the classes stationary?

We have 1 hour classes too so for the younger classes 2 hours can be a lot if you can't do more practical work to break it up. At senior cycles it's probably ok.

Random sample

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Have many teachers got word from their principals? Anyone not keeping the classes stationary?

We have 1 hour classes too so for the younger classes 2 hours can be a lot if you can't do more practical work to break it up. At senior cycles it's probably ok.

Would doubles work for 1 hour classes? That would mean a lot of teachers only seeing kids once a week.

The danger for me will be breaking the second period up with activities based on the information from the first period... and then not getting through the course because I’ve only covered half as much information as usual.

mirrorwall14

Principals meeting yesterday apparently but no word yet. We’re in an ETB though so presume they will need to interpret it themselves first before we implement anything

am_zarathustra

ETB too, hoping to hear something next week. I've set out the rooms I deal with anyway but I'd need to do serious revision of my planning documents if I have doubles. I have already got a couple of classes resources packs printed and put in folders so I'm just concerned I'll be doing work twice if there isn't a bit of clarity.

Never thought I'd be grateful for the ETBs bureaucracy but having a few principals talk it out might be the best idea, and having a Health and Safety officer should help

I'm hoping that most teachers will end up with some reasonable level of protection but we've all been in schools with woeful management and worse BOM support. It's those teachers you'd be worried about.

am_zarathustra

Random sample wrote: »

Would doubles work for 1 hour classes? That would mean a lot of teachers only seeing kids once a week.

The danger for me will be breaking the second period up with activities based on the information from the first period... and then not getting through the course because I’ve only covered half as much information as usual.

I've had two hour doubles before, it's tough at JC and I asked to have them removed after 2 years. At LC I found them good but I have one practical subject and my other subject in honours maths, somewhat self selecting. But saying that, in doubles there would have been the chance of a cup of tea/coffee and, when I could see a nice porter, a few biscuits and a quick 10 minute chat in the middle to break it up. That's not going to be an option now

For JC I was very dependent on 20 minutes activity changes and in september and spring they were allowed go outside for ten minutes in between if all the work was done. Again, that's not an option. I've been trying to get the tarsias and group activity work onto A4 sheets for individual use and then sealed in an envelope so I can give them all a folder with everything in it. It's taken me over a week to sort one class and I have all the resources.

ClydeTallyBump

I sent a long email to ASTI today to voice all my concerns.

I would really encourage everyone to email their union. I know it might not make a big difference but they need to hear our concerns and worries etc.

Once again, it was ASTI today who requested the Minister to review medical advice regarding the opening of schools. I honestly don't know why people stay with TUI. I left them around the time of the S&S change and they just seem to have got worse and worse since then.

ethical

Is it not just a totally terrible idea to have c.30 students in the one room all day everyday,without proper aeration,a total breeding ground for any disease.The Dept havent got a clue and have shown this since 12th March in everything they told us .Realistically its the Irish Times we should be asking ,after all it was them that told us there would be no JC,no LC and a few other things.Do not expect Norma to have all the answers,the poor girl thinks there are 2000 teacher on the Teaching Council register who are not in the classroom at the moment (GDPR bells Ringing loud there!!!).Someone should tell her the reason that many of them are registered is so that they can do the Exams Commission work every Summer.They should aslo tell her that the reason some teachers do Part time hours is so that they can raise their family or look after elderly parents.
I will not even mention the chaos in rooms if students are based there for a whole day,not only will you have bullying as some of you have alluded to but you will also have a total mess! Will you have to disinfect everything again before you start class.
The use of masks,(compulsory) and perspex is perhaps the easiest solution to alot of the issues,it seems to work for shops,supermarkets etc.

rainbowtrout

ethical wrote: »

Is it not just a totally terrible idea to have c.30 students in the one room all day everyday,without proper aeration,a total breeding ground for any disease.The Dept havent got a clue and have shown this since 12th March in everything they told us .

Oh they have a clue alright, but they are never going to say in public that they are opening schools to allow parents to go back to work, the education bit is just a side issue.

alroley

It's shocking what a lot of the general public think about the "plan". I was talking to my landlord today and he was saying how wasn't it great we'd have the 1m social distancing and all the new teachers being hired to split our classes in half! He's not the first person I've heard that thinks that either!

Bananaleaf

alroley wrote: »

It's shocking what a lot of the general public think about the "plan". I was talking to my landlord today and he was saying how wasn't it great we'd have the 1m social distancing and all the new teachers being hired to split our classes in half! He's not the first person I've heard that thinks that either!

That is the major problem with the media spin. I purposely didn't read the roadmap for a few days and allowed myself to form a picture of what we were getting, based on media reports alone.

I was under the impression that we would have reduced class sizes from what I was hearing.

I see a lot of 'other countries have their schools back and they're managing grand' being thrown about, but ..... does anyone actually know what schools in other countries are doing? I was asked this tonight and I didn't know. I understand they have smaller class sizes, but what other measures have been put in place by them. Does anyone know?

Bananaleaf

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Oh they have a clue alright, but they are never going to say in public that they are opening schools to allow parents to go back to work, the education bit is just a side issue.

And yet I swear that on Newstalk this evening, during one of the news bulletins, the reader said that Paschal Donohue stated that the country would benefit economically from the reopening of schools.

I swear I heard that. Did anyone else?

Edited to add that I haven't had any luck finding where it was said, but I'll resume the search tomorrow!