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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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sheff_

bingo9999 wrote: »

just relabelling things already done and planned as a new plan

Isn't this what they do best?

bingo9999

Thats what Im worried about

sheff_

bingo9999 wrote: »

Thats what Im worried about

Ah well. Even it it meant the existing pieces being repaired, and all those new plans being developed as opposed to sitting on a shelve it'll be something.

opus

ofcork wrote: »

Loftus have a sign up on the square deal site alot of demolition going on behind.

It kicked off at the end of June, I put a pic here as work close by there so getting a good view of progress.

The Kino development has gotten the go-ahead for (yet more) student apartments. Perhaps there might be enough of them in the pipeline now?

Redevelopment of Cork's Kino arts venue is granted planning permission

whisky_galore

City turning into one big student flophouse.

Were students homeless before?

Shedite27

whisky_galore wrote: »

City turning into one big student flophouse.

Were students homeless before?

Students were taking up houses, which caused a housing crisis for non-students. This frees up houses for families

Justin Credible Darts

Shedite27 wrote: »

Students were taking up houses, which caused a housing crisis for non-students. This frees up houses for families

Really, so the kids that were renting digs will be replaced by a family of non student looking for digs ?

I think not

namloc1980

Shedite27 wrote: »

Students were taking up houses, which caused a housing crisis for non-students. This frees up houses for families

No it doesn't. There is zero evidence that houses are being freed up

namloc1980

bingo9999 wrote: »

Looking forward to that, hopefully will be some decent changes and not just relabelling things already done and planned as a new plan

Hallelujah, at last:

- Fitting of 4 kilometres of safety bollards on strategic parts of the most popular cycle lanes in the city including Alfred Street, South Main Street, Washington Street, Mahon Link, Western Road, Rossa Avenue and in Ballincollig;

- 4.1 kilometres of new cycle lanes at Centre Park Road and Monahan Road, Terence MacSwiney Quay, Horgans Quay and Victoria Road and South Mall;

The announcement of "new" cycle lanes includes ones we already know about: South Mall, Horgan's Quay, Victoria Road and South Docklands.

Shedite27

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Really, so the kids that were renting digs will be replaced by a family of non student looking for digs ?

I think not

namloc1980 wrote: »

No it doesn't. There is zero evidence that houses are being freed up

The house my brother spent last year in was sold last month and he's been told the new tenants are converting it to a family home. So yes, it does happen and there's your evidence
https://www.daft.ie/cork/houses-for-sale/cork-city/springside-highfield-avenue-cork-city-cork-2404503/

CHealy

We had a house by us in Turners Cross that had 4 students in it the last few years which has recently been bought by a lovely family with a young kid. The student were grand by the way, but it only takes one group of messers to ruin what is a very quiet old area.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Good to hear they are finally segregating the bike lanes / "car parks". Let's just hope they do it properly.

D'Agger

beer enigma wrote: »

Second Webinar on the Cork City development plan 29th July

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/cork-city-development-plan-2022-2028-public-engagement-webinar-2-tickets-114412528954

Can't make this tonight, will it be recorded and potentially shared?

bingo9999

Shedite27 wrote: »

Students were taking up houses, which caused a housing crisis for non-students. This frees up houses for families

To be fair theyre better catered for in the city rather than streaming through neighbourhoods on weekday nights making noise and knocking over bins. Gardai bouncers etc. better focussed there to keep things running smoothly, and students do keep the lights on in many bars and places during the week.

I do agree though that the ratio of planned student to general apartments is awful, cant understand it is it regulations that make normal apartments prohibitive to build and recover in market rents? If thats the case there should be a student-accom-for-adults scheme brought in. Theres plenty of young professionals in my office house sharing in the burbs who Im sure would rather a small private space of their own in the city centre. At least I would have at that stage

roreos

bingo9999 wrote: »

I do agree though that the ratio of planned student to general apartments is awful, cant understand it is it regulations that make normal apartments prohibitive to build and recover in market rents? If thats the case there should be a student-accom-for-adults scheme brought in. Theres plenty of young professionals in my office house sharing in the burbs who Im sure would rather a small private space of their own in the city centre. At least I would have at that stage

The potential return on student accommodation is much higher than your traditional rental scheme or build to sell. Amnis house on Western road is charging €238 a week for a room, assuming on average 4 rooms to an apartment, noting you can have 6/8 rooms per apartment, that's about €36k per apartment over a 38 week period with the potential for summer letting on top of that. You would need to let an apartment at c.€3k pm to match that and demand at that level in cork doesn't appear to be there at the scale required to justify opting for apartments over student accommodation from a private developers viewpoint. Big caveat however in whether the student accommodation model as was has a place in a covid world.

The student accommodation for adults model goes by the name co-living and hasn't exactly been met with great fanfare for a number of reasons

Justin Credible Darts

Shedite27 wrote: »

The house my brother spent last year in was sold last month and he's been told the new tenants are converting it to a family home. So yes, it does happen and there's your evidence
https://www.daft.ie/cork/houses-for-sale/cork-city/springside-highfield-avenue-cork-city-cork-2404503/

Wow...one house you base your argument on.

I know over a dozen houses in college road cork, where students stayed, with the owner, and they were still looking for lodgers.

When no lodgers are forthcoming, them owners are not just going to sell up.

I dont think a family would move in to digs, it simply is not going to happen.

whisky_galore

roreos wrote: »

The potential return on student accommodation is much higher than your traditional rental scheme or build to sell. Amnis house on Western road is charging €238 a week for a room, assuming on average 4 rooms to an apartment, noting you can have 6/8 rooms per apartment, that's about €36k per apartment over a 38 week period with the potential for summer letting on top of that. You would need to let an apartment at c.€3k pm to match that and demand at that level in cork doesn't appear to be there at the scale required to justify opting for apartments over student accommodation from a private developers viewpoint. Big caveat however in whether the student accommodation model as was has a place in a covid world.

The student accommodation for adults model goes by the name co-living and hasn't exactly been met with great fanfare for a number of reasons

At those prices, what kind of students can afford that??
It's clear to see that the house shares won't be going away.

roreos

whisky_galore wrote: »

At those prices, what kind of students can afford that??
It's clear to see that the house shares won't be going away.

Open to correction but I believe Amnis House sold out or was close to it last year when it became available and that was with the student Union declining to promote it. Not saying all other venues would as well and it probably is the best location of the lot, but there was a market for it. It remains to be seen if that market exists anymore

namloc1980

House-shares up around UCC are going nowhere. They're much closer to the campus than most of the new student accommodation and they are also much cheaper in general. I don't buy this notion that they'll all become family homes.

whisky_galore

roreos wrote: »

Open to correction but I believe Amnis House sold out or was close to it last year when it became available and that was with the student Union declining to promote it. Not saying all other venues would as well and it probably is the best location of the lot, but there was a market for it. It remains to be seen if that market exists anymore

Children of Arab oil sheiks maybe.

The idea that it'll free up homes for families is the sort of well-meaning thinking not backed up by figures apart from an astounding total of one single house someone knows of. Ah sure isn't it great these developers are thinking of house hunting families after all?! Bless their cotton socks.

Shedite27

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Wow...one house you base your argument on.

I know over a dozen houses in college road cork, where students stayed, with the owner, and they were still looking for lodgers.

When no lodgers are forthcoming, them owners are not just going to sell up.

I dont think a family would move in to digs, it simply is not going to happen.

Digs is a type of accomodation (last popular in the 90's FWIW), nobody's saying a family is going to move into "digs". What we're saying is that the college students get purpose built student accomodations, families get purpose built houses.

satanta99

Student numbers are expected to increase by 20% in the next decade.

The post crash baby boom that required all those extra primary school places to be built will start to reach the third level institutes around the middle of this decade.

Add to that the increasing amount of full-fee paying foreign students Universities are recruiting.

5000 extra student beds are required to satisfy this projected increase. They can't all live on college road!

The current schemes which have planning only cover around 2600 of this requirement. We need to keep building these schemes otherwise we will face a severe shortage of accommodation by 2025.

major interest

http://www.pleanala.ie/shd/applications/CurrentApplications/Current%20Applications24Jul.pdf

There are currently over 1300 student bed spaces in for planning in strategic housing developments in Cork city. And there are plenty other student schemes in development/planning that aren’t on that list.

cantalach

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I dont think a family would move in to digs, it simply is not going to happen.

Even when I went to college in the 90s very few students were opting for digs. My wife did all right for the very first term but never subsequently. And only the wealthy kids stayed in the on-campus accommodation which was in very short supply back then. So most students back then shared a house with friends or sometimes (esp. in first year) with people who were initially complete strangers. In any house I lived, the other houses around were occupied by a mix of students and families, frequently but not always lower income families. Depending on the estate and going rent, the ratio of students to non-students varied.

So in my experience at least, students and families frequently do compete for the same housing stock.

Justin Credible Darts

Shedite27 wrote: »

Digs is a type of accomodation (last popular in the 90's FWIW), nobody's saying a family is going to move into "digs". What we're saying is that the college students get purpose built student accomodations, families get purpose built houses.

Yes the students are getting numerous developments all over the city.

where are purpose built homes families?

Families on the waiting list, couples looking for starter homes etc are not getting the same treatment as the students, and outnumber the students, yet its the students getting the preferential treatment.

roreos

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Families on the waiting list, couples looking for starter homes etc are not getting the same treatment as the students, and outnumber the students, yet its the students getting the preferential treatment.

It's not that it's special treatment, the returns are just higher. It's not like the government is building units of social student accommodation rather than affordable housing, this is private investment. If the returns for building apartments were higher that's where the capital investment would be directed.

BUNK1982

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Yes the students are getting numerous developments all over the city.

where are purpose built homes families?

Families on the waiting list, couples looking for starter homes etc are not getting the same treatment as the students, and outnumber the students, yet its the students getting the preferential treatment.

I think the issue here is really with the fact that the we have relied on developer/ permissions lead approach to planning and that's why we are where we are.

marno21

The IDA have tendered for the development of an access road to their property at Ballyadam, Co. Cork

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/171262/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

This is presumably the Amgen site. Hopefully something afoot.

opus

The long derelict house at the bottom of Sundays Well road is starting to look well, glad they kept the colour similar to before.

The windows are starting to go into the student apartment block on the Mardyke but can't see if being ready by the start of the next term though.

leahyl

https://www.yaycork.ie/cork-city-council-has-confirmed-the-regeneration-of-morrisons-island-will-begin-in-the-new-year/

I think the video makes it look pretty nice tbh....not sure why so many people are so against this.