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Blatant Cheating

dan_ep82

Been on the forum a few years now and it always seems to come up regularly.

The main one seems to be handicap manipulation. Even here, where I'd judge we have more golfers who are in it for the love of the game and not the winners circle accusations are thrown around a bit.

Then you have the winks and nods about certain clubs about inter club comps. ( I don't follow interclub so couldn't comment on this)

What I'd like to know is have you ever caught someone blatantly cheating, where if you had a go pro on your head it's a clear cut case?

I'm playing 5 or 6 years and I've only ever suspected one guy of breaking the rules on purpose to better his ( admittedly atrocious ) score on the day.

With the way some posters go on you would expect alot of instances but I don't think we will get them.

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Franks12

There was a lad in the club who was notorious for magically finding his ball after wayward shots into the thick grass (type of grass that was next to impossible to find your ball). Anyway was playing in a competition with him and my father in law one Sunday. Father in law warns me before the round that if he hits into bushes etc to keep an eye on him. As we stand on the first tee the fella announces he is playing a Titleist 3 Prov1 and my father in law asks him to repeat that as "he didn't hear him correctly". Couple of holes in and he smashes a drive into the thickest grass. We tell him he should hit a provisional but he says it will be grand and he will find it. We go to help him look for it and the father in law actually finds his Titleist 3 Prov1 ball and shouts back to the fella saying "Found a ball - you were playing a Callaway 2, weren't ya?". The fella jumps up as quick as anything and roars "yip - callaway 2 - thats me". At this point I'm confused as I knew he was playing a Titleist 3. Father in law shouts back saying "Pity that - i just found a Titleist 3". The fella was livid as he had to declare the ball lost then and go back and play another of the tee. He didn't speak to us for the rest of the round but it was one of the funniest things I have ever seen on the golf course.

callaway92

Franks12 wrote: »

There was a lad in the club who was notorious for magically finding his ball after wayward shots into the thick grass (type of grass that was next to impossible to find your ball). Anyway was playing in a competition with him and my father in law one Sunday. Father in law warns me before the round that if he hits into bushes etc to keep an eye on him. As we stand on the first tee the culprit announces he is playing a Titleist 3 Prov1 and my father in law asks him to repeat that as "he didnt hear him correctly". Couple of holes in and he smashes a drive into the thickest grass. We tell him he should hit a provisional but he says it will be grand and he will find it. We go to help him look for it and the father in law actually finds his Titleist 3 Prov1 ball and shouts back to the fella saying "Found a ball - you were playing a Callaway 2, werent ya?". The fella jumps up as quick as anything and roars "yip - callaway 2 - thats me". At this point I'm confused as I knew he was playing a Titleist 3. Father in law shouts back saying "Pity that - i just found a Titleist 3". The fella was livid as he had to delcare the ball lost then and go back and play another of the tee. He didnt speak to us for the rest of the round but it was one of the funniest things I have ever seen on the golf course.

Few culprits in that story to be honest.

gman127

Franks12 wrote: »

There was a lad in the club who was notorious for magically finding his ball after wayward shots into the thick grass (type of grass that was next to impossible to find your ball). Anyway was playing in a competition with him and my father in law one Sunday. Father in law warns me before the round that if he hits into bushes etc to keep an eye on him. As we stand on the first tee the culprit announces he is playing a Titleist 3 Prov1 and my father in law asks him to repeat that as "he didnt hear him correctly". Couple of holes in and he smashes a drive into the thickest grass. We tell him he should hit a provisional but he says it will be grand and he will find it. We go to help him look for it and the father in law actually finds his Titleist 3 Prov1 ball and shouts back to the fella saying "Found a ball - you were playing a Callaway 2, werent ya?". The fella jumps up as quick as anything and roars "yip - callaway 2 - thats me". At this point I'm confused as I knew he was playing a Titleist 3. Father in law shouts back saying "Pity that - i just found a Titleist 3". The fella was livid as he had to delcare the ball lost then and go back and play another of the tee. He didnt speak to us for the rest of the round but it was one of the funniest things I have ever seen on the golf course.

^^ This. Is brilliant!!

Russman

gman127 wrote: »

I have recently experienced a situation that I'm still pondering what to do and would appreciate some input for you good folks on here and this seems a good a thread as any!

Playing with Player A, making general conversation, he has some family also playing at the club so ask how all are doing, playing much etc.
As plain as day says that his brother is 'minding his handicap' so that he can defend a major title he won last year :mad:

Then during this round and a subsequent one with a friend of mine later in the week, Player A on a few occasions either misses silly putts or doesn't even bother to search for his ball that could be easily found etc after he makes the turn with over 20 points and in danger of a good score.
And then after one of the rounds submits a score of 30 points even though his partner marked him for 32, which could have kept him in the buffer.

So, long story short, how would you approach this sort of blatant handicap minding? Both lads off about 25 and capable of at least 18 if not better (Player A was off 10 a few years ago! )

I plan to bring the issue to the mens committee or captain or handicap secretary or something but would appreciate some advice first. Cheers

I totally understand your sentiment, but the thing about this type of handicap minding situation is, what rule would you be accusing him/them of breaking ? If they're falsifying score cards then of course that's a whole other ball game and you'd be dead right to push it.
But if its just playing with the handbrake on, for all the handicap sec knows, you could be just trying to scupper a rival's chance in a competition. Obviously you're not and everyone knows what's going on, but without evidence, its not something a committee or h/c sec will want to touch with a barge pole (rightly or wrongly). All you can really do is hope karma is real and enjoy your own game and get your own handicap down.

If you think about it, its not such a huge step from your situation above, if the committee were to do anything, to some lad in the "in" crowd, with a few pints on him telling his mate the h/cap sec that ".....sure i played a few holes with yer man Joe one evening last week and he had 3 birdies on the front nine, 13 handicap me bo11ix....."

Russman

Only time I ever "saw" (even though we didn't really) anything totally blatant was many moons ago playing Smurfit Cup as a junior. The opposition were in a spinney of trees looking for a way to pitch out. Myself and my partner didn't actually see it, but suddenly their manager strode into the trees and told him to pick up that ball, that he saw what he did and he was conceding the hole to us. I still don't know whether he fresh aired it, kicked it or it moved at address, or what, but something untoward went on.

I've been lucky (or oblivious) in not having seen anything blatant that could be described as cheating. I had one guy in a Senior Cup match years ago look for very generous/grey relief one time, but I was so determined not to let him upset me that I just agreed with him and let him have his drop.

I'm sure over the years we've probably all inadvertently taken a wrong drop or misunderstood a rules situation.

The handicap minding / banditry stuff I mostly let go over my head because I'm not convinced its as real or prevalent as some people make out. Someone has to win every Saturday and human nature being what it is, if it isn't us winning, the other fella must be a bandit. I mean its just the nature of golf, Tour players regularly follow a 65 with a 73, or a 77 with a 69, and these are the best players in the world. One of the European Tour guys last week was +6 after 6 holes and shot -1, yet when 16 handicap Joe has 22 points for nine, followed by 12 on the back, he's somehow a bandit.

hurleronditch

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Few boys in our club would put a tee through their mat in winter to 'hold it' in position. But they would then place the ball on the tee.

The local pub in my home place started a society about 30 years ago, generally sports mad but we’re 10+ miles from the nearest course so no real culture in the locality, but fellas we’re mad for road once it got going. They did group lessons in a local range and by the first few outsings they had 40-50 plus every time, fellas were shtone mad for it.

One of the lads to give it a go was your typical high stool merchant, big farm, loved the pints, former chairman of the GAA club, generally sound fella. Myself (I was about 14), my dad and a neighbour were out with this fella one of the first outings, and the course was a bit of a slog, with balls plugging in the rough in particular. Winter rules in play, and our hero wasn’t much of a golfer, but every time he went into the rough he was hitting a 5 or a 7 wood out and making the most beautiful contact, lovely high ball flights, albeit the accuracy and distance were inconsistent. He was hooking the ball off the tee, and the other three of us were sliding so it was a while before we were near him.

Somewhere early on the back nine, my dad was near him and says just as he was about to hit, what in the name of jaysus are you up to? The hero had been teeing the ball up in the rough for all his second shots and smashing it. When pushed it actually was a reasonably innocent mistake. When the lads had explained winter rules to him before heading out they said when you find your ball in the rough it’ll probably be covered in mud. Just put a tee down (to mark where it was) cleans the ball and then just pop it down and hit away. He took this to mean that the tee was there for the ball to be hit from.

To be fair the lads in the society saw the funny side, we explained when we went in what had happened, he played honestly all the way home. One of the organisers was a carpenter, and by the time we were back in the local for the prize giving a few hours later they had drilled a hole in a tee and put a key ring through it and awarded it to him so he always had his tee handy for every shot.

CalamariFritti

Franks12 wrote: »

There was a lad in the club who was notorious for magically finding his ball after wayward shots into the thick grass (type of grass that was next to impossible to find your ball). Anyway was playing in a competition with him and my father in law one Sunday. Father in law warns me before the round that if he hits into bushes etc to keep an eye on him. As we stand on the first tee the fella announces he is playing a Titleist 3 Prov1 and my father in law asks him to repeat that as "he didn't hear him correctly". Couple of holes in and he smashes a drive into the thickest grass. We tell him he should hit a provisional but he says it will be grand and he will find it. We go to help him look for it and the father in law actually finds his Titleist 3 Prov1 ball and shouts back to the fella saying "Found a ball - you were playing a Callaway 2, weren't ya?". The fella jumps up as quick as anything and roars "yip - callaway 2 - thats me". At this point I'm confused as I knew he was playing a Titleist 3. Father in law shouts back saying "Pity that - i just found a Titleist 3". The fella was livid as he had to declare the ball lost then and go back and play another of the tee. He didn't speak to us for the rest of the round but it was one of the funniest things I have ever seen on the golf course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0kdBDwNddc

PARlance

padmcv wrote: »

I've heard of this being done by the group in front as a warning to stop hitting into them

Never heard of that myself but we had nobody in front of us for the round.

Bandana boy

was playing with a group of the lads about 12 years ago and I was marking the cards for the 4 of us , no competition other than bragging rights in the pub after.
On a long par 4 three of us went right of the tee and one lad left into a bunker . I was waiting for the other two lads to play when i noticed the guy on the left take at least 3 shots out of the bunker and could hear the swearing , we had a giggle as a group and moved on.
when it came to scoring I asked the lad what you have here expecting to scratch the thing for him when he declares proudly a 5 , I laugh 5 out of the bunker maybe , he insists and gets quite pissy that it was a 5.
Rather than argue and as he was not in any real contention to win the day I give him a 5 .
No other instances of him cheating in the 12 years but we still refer to him as a cheating golfer and if he shoots a good round we go what was it really . It really annoys him but will follow him till his last game !!

blackbox

On numerous occasions, after they declare a score for a hole, I have said to fellow golfers that they might want to count the shots again.

Most players are grateful as they genuinely forgot about a shot. Easy enough to do if a bit frustrated with your game.

On the other hand, it's the easiest way to cheat if you are that way inclined.

pete4pool

Been golfing most of my life, in the town I am from there was one auld fella known for cheating. I was too young to ever do anything about it. There are different levels, people thinking that looking for a ball more than 3 minutes is cheating, others thinking using a foot wedge is fine. I like to stick to the rules, but wouldn't be timing someone looking for a ball.

But recently I joined a new busy club near the city. Lovely course. As its busy I usually play with new people every round. Twice already I have see blantant cheating (well I believe twice)

First time, I wa playing with 2 older men, one (A) was also a new member and a very quite man, the other (B) a long time member. A was marking B's card. Near the end of the round I heard B shout out his score (5), I wasn't paying attention to his score as I wasn't marking, but thought "hmmm really" counted back and thought it was a 6 but couldn't be sure. I monitored and low and be hold on 2 of the last 3 he gave the wrong score. I genuiely believe man A wasn't watching and didn't know, or if he did was too quite to say anything. But what do you do, man A has put his name down with me since and i've removed it.

Second time last week. Myself and a buddy playing with another older long time member. Down the first he hits his score right into rough/trees, my shot is just off fairway slightly further up. I walk down and I see a ball behind trees where I think he landed, so pointed and told him there. I continued to walk to mine. He went to the ball and picked it up and said thats not mine, then walk out of the trees and while I wasn't watching said he found it in the thick rough. He found it about 2 feet from where I walked, the rough wasnot that rough. So said that ya somethings up here. But thought, if he did what I thought he did, its the most daring thing I've seen on a course.
And honestly I hate this the thought of having to call him out and I started to think about it and affected my game abit.
Later on the 9th, he knocked his drive and then his second shot hit a tree and we didn't see where is went after that. A good guess was a big bush left of the tree. But we said we'd walk up in case it was out in the open. I walked up and went as far as my own ball and then came back and was heading for the bush. Again when I wasn't watching him, he said he found it under a bug leaf. Again I was like, not a hope, his BS me now. On the next tee I checked his ball and it was different to the one he tee'd off with on the 9th.
After every hole I called out his score before he had the chance to.

But what do you do. Call the guy out on, even if you can prove it, you have to spend the next 4 hours with him after having a fight on the first, its ruined the game you've been waiting for all week.

Any tips on calling out guy/girl when you don't like conflicked.

mike12

blackbox wrote: »

On numerous occasions, after they declare a score for a hole, I have said to fellow golfers that they might want to count the shots again.

Most players are grateful as they genuinely forgot about a shot. Easy enough to do if a bit frustrated with your game.

On the other hand, it's the easiest way to cheat if you are that way inclined.

Think this is the one I come across myself but it is never when anyone is having a good round.
Have done it the odd time usually when it's a 7 or 8

spacecoyote

My club has had 2 people given suspensions for being caught cheating in the last couple of years.

One, a low handicap younger guy who was changing his scorecards before submitting them and was caught out from someone noticing differences on HDID. He wasnt winning loads of competitions, so people wouldn't really look at the scores and think anything of it, just pushing for the lowest handicap possible.

2nd was a lady member who I played with previously, probably a mid teen handicap and a decent enough golfer. I did notice she was a bit of an under-counter, but I'm a bit anal with numbers so have no issue calling people out on their scores. Actually one day was playing with her and we played through a group of ladies on one hole. One of them, a past lady Captain asked me to thr side, as we were passing them, how she was scoring. She said she'd had reports from other members, so to keep an eye on her scoring. But she wasnt caught for that, she was caught for dropping ball out of her pockets near the out of bounds when she thought noone was looking.

One of the only ones I've experienced personally was with a society for my local GAA club. I wasnt a member of the club, joined through a mate. One of my first outings with them they paired me and my mate with a guy who was a member for years. When we were going out my mate said..."they put you out with him because hes a cheater. They all know it but it's going on so long no one ever called him on it, and now they wont do it. They figured you're new and don't know him so might be able to call him out." Interesting way to meet a fella. Famous for marking his ball in front of the ball, and replacing the ball then in front of the marker, gained about 3 inches per putt.

But, as predicted, on the second hole, the par 3 in Tulfarris, me and mate found the green (humble brag), he hits short, avoids the water but in deep rough. We're walking round the back, of the green to leave out bags for next hole. Look backwards as hes short and see him kick his ball out of the rough to the short grass. I roared back at him..."you cant f**kin do that, what the ****". He looks over like an embarrassed child caught and in trouble and mumbles that he hit off it by accident. Scratched the hole and didnt try much after that, because he knew he was being watched.

Gas thing was, I was getting thanks and "Fair Plays" from lads in the clubhouse afterwards when they found out. Very weird situation.

youcancallmeal

spacecoyote wrote: »

But, as predicted, on the second hole, the par 3 in Tulfarris, me and mate found the green (humble brag), he hits short, avoids the water but in deep rough. We're walking round the back, of the green to leave out bags for next hole. Look backwards as hes short and see him kick his ball out of the rough to the short grass. I roared back at him..."you cant f**kin do that, what the ****". He looks over like an embarrassed child caught and in trouble and mumbles that he hit off it by accident. Scratched the hole and didnt try much after that, because he knew he was being watched.

You were definitely the right man for the job! I don't think I could say anything just because I wouldn't want the rest of the round to be awkward

Dbu

Funny enough, most of the ? marks in our club always surrounded low handicap golfers.
Why the f..k bother to cheat when you just win a €25 voucher..baffles me

RoadRunner

I have heard (without any solid evidence to bring to the table mind!) that football/gaa based golf societies are basically a joke. I suspect the ethos of the sports are just the complete opposite of golf.

pakman

Heard this one at the weekend. Neighbour of mine was out in a medal a few years back and playing with a lad who was new to club golf.

New lad was going brilliantly and set to win the thing going down the 18 when he commented on the neighbours golf clubs. He asked if he could hit one out of interest and my neighbour handed him a club, the new guy hit it, and was immediately told by my neighbour that it was a DQ.

The guy just walked off the course after the 18th and didn't hand in the card. Seems out of character from what I know of the neighbour but you never know. Regardless of whether its true or not, its a rep he wont shake easily if the guys I played with are anything to go by.

MarcusP12

pakman wrote: »

Heard this one at the weekend. Neighbour of mine was out in a medal a few years back and playing with a lad who was new to club golf.

New lad was going brilliantly and set to win the thing going down the 18 when he commented on the neighbours golf clubs. He asked if he could hit one out of interest and my neighbour handed him a club, the new guy hit it, and was immediately told by my neighbour that it was a DQ.

The guy just walked off the course after the 18th and didn't hand in the card. Seems out of character from what I know of the neighbour but you never know. Regardless of whether its true or not, its a rep he wont shake easily if the guys I played with are anything to go by.

Wow, that's pretty bad form! I assume he was just using the other club for a random shot as opposed to using it for his ball in play? Very strange that the lad would be interested in that if he was going well and didn't know that it was a big no no within a competition....if i was going well in a competition (long time since that was the case), i'd be hardly talking to anyone never mind looking to test drive their clubs!...hard to excuse the neighbour in allowing him fall on his own sword though when he was going so well....stinks of begrudgery at a newbie doing well in a competition so was happy to help him screw it up....not a good look....

Wombatman

pakman wrote: »

Heard this one at the weekend. Neighbour of mine was out in a medal a few years back and playing with a lad who was new to club golf.

New lad was going brilliantly and set to win the thing going down the 18 when he commented on the neighbours golf clubs. He asked if he could hit one out of interest and my neighbour handed him a club, the new guy hit it, and was immediately told by my neighbour that it was a DQ.

The guy just walked off the course after the 18th and didn't hand in the card. Seems out of character from what I know of the neighbour but you never know. Regardless of whether its true or not, its a rep he wont shake easily if the guys I played with are anything to go by.

Massively cnutish of the neighbour if true. Would have me steering well clear of him on the golf course at least.

finglashoop

Wombatman wrote: »

Massively cnutish of the neighbour if true. Would have me steering well clear of him on the golf course at least.

Id be steering clear altogether. Never mind a golf course.

I love playing with someone who is on a good score. It takes some cnut to do that. I wouldnt trust him at all.

pakman

MarcusP12 wrote: »

Wow, that's pretty bad form! I assume he was just using the other club for a random shot as opposed to using it for his ball in play? Very strange that the lad would be interested in that if he was going well and didn't know that it was a big no no within a competition....if i was going well in a competition (long time since that was the case), i'd be hardly talking to anyone never mind looking to test drive their clubs!...hard to excuse the neighbour in allowing him fall on his own sword though when he was going so well....stinks of begrudgery at a newbie doing well in a competition so was happy to help him screw it up....not a good look....

Yeah I thought it was strange behaviour alright for the new guy as I would never even think about asking that during a round and never mind if I'm on a great score and trying to keep the head. You wonder how much of these stories are talk too because it does strike me as out of character for the neighbour. Just goes to show the power of a bad rep.

PabloAndRoy

Interesting thread.

I'm in my 50s and just took up the game last year as a Get into Golf thing.

Started some competitions this year playing off a 30. Started by struggling to get in the buffer zone. Now I am hanging in there and even got a shot off recently.

Plenty of times, I know i get a drop but am unsure as to where it should be. I always look to the most experienced player for advice. Was playing with another beginner a few weeks back and I inadverntently played his ball from left rough 160 yards out to the front of the green. Was thrilled until I saw that the ball we thought was his was actually mine. The other newbie says "ah sure no worry I will just play yours and we will swap at the end of the hole". I wasn't having it so I asked the low handicapper (who hadn't seen any of this) with us what to do and indeed its a 2 stroke penalty for me. It was as good a shot as I can play but i scratched the hole. Them's the rules.

Also last week I played an easy par 4 badly, putted out and declared "6" and stood back. Mid handicapper drops his 5 footer put, turns to me and says "you had a 5". I learned two things. most players are fair and people do count what you are doing even if they are not marking your card.

Played out of my skin on one of the bigger stroke play comps recently and got called bandit... Was disgusted.

Edit: Also, was playing casual round one day and after one of the players played a shot into the par 3, I said "great shot, what club was that?". Third player says "If you do that in competition before you play your shot, you will be disqualified". Good to know.

MarcusP12

pakman wrote: »

Yeah I thought it was strange behaviour alright for the new guy as I would never even think about asking that during a round and never mind if I'm on a great score and trying to keep the head. You wonder how much of these stories are talk too because it does strike me as out of character for the neighbour. Just goes to show the power of a bad rep.

Actually the more I think about it, the more it sounds like a bit of a porkie....I’d be thinking about who told you the story in the first place and whether they might have a grudge or something....does sound like a malicious rumour....no chance maybe of asking the newbie himself directly? Do you know the neighbour well enough to ask him about it? Dunno about you but I’d be mad to find out more!

pakman

MarcusP12 wrote: »

Actually the more I think about it, the more it sounds like a bit of a porkie....I’d be thinking about who told you the story in the first place and whether they might have a grudge or something....does sound like a malicious rumour....no chance maybe of asking the newbie himself directly? Do you know the neighbour well enough to ask him about it? Dunno about you but I’d be mad to find out more!

The story teller is a guy I play with regularly enough and decent fella. I'll probably steer clear and see if it ever comes up again. The only thing worse than be known as a cheat would be asking around accusing others of cheating. I do love a bit of gossip mind you

DuckSlice

I'm confused, are we disgusted by the neighbour being a prick or the new guy for having a shot with someone else's clubs?

MarcusP12

etxp wrote: »

I'm confused, are we disgusted by the neighbour being a prick or the new guy for having a shot with someone else's clubs?

from my point of view, I'd question whether this story was true at all....not that i'm questioning the posters version of it more where the story originated from. Few things don't measure up...why would someone be that distracted on a good competitive round to want to hit another person's club? Even if he was that distracted and didnt think it was a big deal, why would someone allow that only to turn around and effectively disqualify them? Maybe the lad was that naive and maybe the neighbour was that much of a pr*k and the story is true and in that case, clearly the neighbour screwed the lad over and should be ashamed of himself....

pakman

etxp wrote: »

I'm confused, are we disgusted by the neighbour being a prick or the new guy for having a shot with someone else's clubs?

The neighbour for letting him use the club. Seems like sabotage if its true

tayto lover

The leather wedge and the magic pencil are very common.
I know of two lads suspended from competitions in the last month for cheating.
Both reported by members and neither were old lads.
Things won’t change if members don’t report.

BraveDonut

I think that members should be fully aware of suspensions in situations like that. Far too often you only hear of this stuff of the grapevine - meaning you have to decide if it is indeed fact or if it is malicious gossip

dan_ep82

While I still don't think cheating is as prevalent as some think I have my own story now to add to the pile.

Playing with two guests as a guest myself at an open comp.

Both nice lads, mid and high handicap. The high handicap's distance wasn't great so I could see why he was 20+

On this day, with his shots, he was going well. 20 on the front nine. We get to a par3 over water and I knew he wouldn't get over but he went for it anyway and stuck it in the water.

Yellow posts so he can drop back from the hazard as far as he wants and the angle works with him allowing a fairway drop. Before he dropped I walked around for a quick ( but pointless) look to see if he made it. He didn't so he decides to drop.

The way he was taking the drop looked funny, too long down, so I kind of walked half back to have a look out of curiosity more than anything. I could swear it looks tee'd up. He hits the shot and up flys a tee after the ball :eek: . I was genuinely shocked. This lad knows the rules, has been playing a long time so there was no excuse. I told his playing partner what I seen and he needs to replay but I don't know the penalty, either way his score is done on that hole. He said he would have a word.
The guy has a few lazy putts nowhere near the hole and picks up. His playing partner genuinely looked shocked when I told him so I can't imagine its a regular occurrence. First time I've ever seen someone breaking the rules so blatantly