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Cannabis Legalisation Ireland

kjl

Ok, let me start by saying I know this has been posted a million times but I haven't seen it in a while.

Why is cannabis still illegal in Ireland? Seriously it's 2020. I'm 40 years old, do I not have a ****ing right to do whatever I want with my own body?

Meanwhile it's perfectly legal do drink a bottle of whiskey and kill myself with alcohol poisoning or smoke cigarettes and give myself lung cancer.

We are now getting to a point where it's getting rediculous, Leo said it would be the next big question so why hasn't it been asked?

Why do I have to resort to going to some drug dealer to get my fix? Why is this completely untaxed product not taxed and made complete safe?

Like I am so sick of reefer madness, the US is starting to give in and legalising it and they are the ones who started this whole idiotic war on a plant.

I can't see any reasonable argument as to why is should remain illegal. The whole gateway argument is moot, and the few who suffer from paranoid schizophrenia from smoking it still have access to it without proper information.

Not to mention that now with the rise of cannabis vapes people are dying from black market vapes which cut the oil with vitamin e, pesticides and cyanide. This is literally killing people because it's not regulated.

It's 2020, what the **** is taking so ****ing long to sort this out. Surely all the biddies from 30 years ago have died off. Not one person on this forum doesn't know at least one cannabis user? Why do those idiots in government start the conversation already?

Seriously, I'm so sick of this backward law. Now is the time to change it, we are all bored out of our tits at home with this Corona virus, wouldn't it be nice to have a joint to forget about it?

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randd1

Stick on a poll there OP and see how we go on this issue.

Strumms

I can see the value of it, if it’s medicinal, and doctors can prescribe it and you can buy it from a pharmacy.

For simply for recreation, no. We have enough trouble in the country with a legal recreational drug (alcohol), without adding cannabis into the mix. The fallout from doing that would simply cost the state too much revenue.

Tony EH

kjl wrote: »

Exactly, all adults. Drug gangs don't care who they sell to and that included underage users. I reckon a 10 year old could buy weed if they wanted to.

Legalisation and regulation would stop underage sales as well.

This is pure fantasy.

The legalisation crowd always try and pass this off as a given. But legalising this won't get rid of criminal sales. The criminals will just undercut the regulated price and you can guarantee that that regulated price will keep going up and up with every budget passed, just like tobacco.

The criminals aren't just going to go away, if dope is legalised.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Tony EH wrote: »

This is pure fantasy.

The legalisation crowd always try and pass this off as a given. But legalising this won't get rid of criminal sales. The criminals will just undercut the regulated price and you can guarantee that that regulated price will keep going up and up with every budget passed, just like tobacco.

The criminals aren't just going to go away, if dope is legalised.

This would depend on how it's taxed.

Gruffalux

Strumms wrote: »

I can see the value of it, if it’s medicinal, and doctors can prescribe it and you can buy it from a pharmacy.

For simply for recreation, no. We have enough trouble in the country with a legal recreational drug (alcohol), without adding cannabis into the mix. The fallout from doing that would simply cost the state too much revenue.

Do you think that by legalising it way more people who do not smoke now are going to start hopping off it? Well, maybe my ancient mother might - she has a hankering for it. I could give her some but I would be worried for her, maybe she would find it too strong, which is probably silly of me. She might love it. I used to love it a very long time ago, never got alcohol, horrible drug. Weed is much more mellow - or used to be!
But anyways most people who want to smoke it, smoke it already. The few that want a joint now and then would have easier access after legalisation, and nobody would be made feel like a filthy reprobate for favoring one drug over another. Personally I think the weed arguments are quite silly, especially given how very many otherwise middle of the road people seem to absolutely love cocaine in the country. That blows my mind because cocaine - now there is one hell of a drug. :eek:

JohnnyFlash

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Medicinal cannabis should absolutely be legal - this shouldn’t even be up for debate.

Legalising it for recreational use though.... drugs are not for me and I make no apologies for that but if it can be done using the Dutch model then I wouldn’t have a problem with it.

It would need to be properly regulated.

There’s very little quality research to show medicinal cannabis is an effective drug for the huge range of disorders and conditions it’s being touted as a miracle for. Even then it would come in tablet/shot form, and not a big bag of Lucifer’s Lettuce.

Carfacemandog

They legalized it in Canada a few years ago and the country hasn't caved in on itself, and the differences in income in US states with and without it legalized is pretty incredible in some cases.

I have been to a free legal place in Canada, and it's quite different to in the Netherlands where quite frequently it's some ropey looking fella behind a bar in an uninviting environment - it was more like going into an electronics shop if anything. The inside is completely blocked from street view, you have to show age ID to get in, and they have a wall with different strains, strengths, etc. Staff are walking around with tablets, either to take your order or to go through differences in whichever ones you are looking it. You can buy a very mild sativa (the type that makes you giggly and active) or strong indica (the type that makes you sedate and sleepy), or anything in between, with a lot of the stuff having very little and oftentimes no THC but CBD instead (which relaxes you but doesn't get you 'stoned'). That seems a far better situation we have in Ireland, where people don't know what they're getting most of the time and a lot of the public - even smokers - have a serious lack of understanding of the differences between strains, and are buying it illegally to fund the black market.

Takes money off the black market, creates direct and indirect employment, depending on how its implemented can generate quite a bit of money for the state, and stops wasting the time of the gardai, freeing them up to deal with actual crime.

Found a picture of the place.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

There’s very little quality research to show medicinal cannabis is an effective drug for the huge range of disorders and conditions it’s being touted as a miracle for. Even then it would come in tablet/shot form, and not a big bag of Lucifer’s Lettuce.

Depends on what you mean by "effective drug." It's not (to the best of my knowledge) cure anything but it has been known to alleviate pain. And at that point, it depends on the person in pain and their personal experience.

[Deleted User]

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Depends on what you mean by "effective drug." It's not (to the best of my knowledge) cure anything but it has been known to alleviate pain. And at that point, it depends on the person in pain and their personal experience.

It works to alleviate shaking issues for people with Parkinson's, or other conditions that cause tremors. It's not simply about pain relief, and provides a certain quality of life for many situations. And, yes, in any situation, it depends on the person, the dosage, and quality. Just as it does with just about any western medicine.

Cannabis can help considerably with my shaking disorder. It doesn't cure it. Doesn't remove it entirely, but it 'can' reduce my muscle spasms and general tremors to the point where it's barely noticeable by other people. It might not seem like much to someone who doesn't shake, but it's massive for those who do.

I've used a wide variety of medicines assigned by Doctors (over 30 years), none of which worked, and all had various side-effects both physical and psychological... Moderate cannabis usage is far better overall when it's of good quality...

But when it comes to medicine or drug usage, it's always going to depend on the individual. People like to suggest that Cannabis is different to mainstream prescription drugs but it's not. I went through a period of 6 months with one doctor who insisted on a barrage of drug cocktails, which gave me side effects ranging from internal bleeding, kidney failure, to blindness in one eye. Because in most cases, doctors need to experiment with each person to find what might work. In my experiences of my shaking disorder being treated by western doctors, it didn't work. Which is why they're now pushing for experimental surgery.

Yup, dicking around with my brain is far better than giving us access to cannabis, even though doctors have unofficially recommended that I search for it. (just as they also unofficially recommended alternative medicines that mainstream medicine dismisses)

Ash.J.Williams

kjl wrote: »

I have already addressed this, it is maybe 1 in 20,000 people who suffer from weed psychosis, how many people in this country are full blown alcoholics. How many people have died from both alcohol poisoning and from the unhealthy lifestyle caused by alcoholism?

People can still get their hands on weed. Anyone can go out today and buy it relatively easy. Having it be illegal does not change if people have issues with it. I don't think this small minority should dictate the rules for everyone else. Not only are we missing tax revenue, but we are also propping up drug gangs with an easy source of income. Drug gangs by the way who won't care if the person they are selling it to is displaying psychotic behaviour. Drug gangs who don't care if people get sick from altered cannabis, remember a few years ago people were spraying cannabis plants with some crystal ****. That wouldn't happen under a regulated market.

I never mentioned weed psychosis so you addressed nothing relevant

snotboogie

Tony EH wrote: »

This is pure fantasy.

The legalisation crowd always try and pass this off as a given. But legalising this won't get rid of criminal sales. The criminals will just undercut the regulated price and you can guarantee that that regulated price will keep going up and up with every budget passed, just like tobacco.

The criminals aren't just going to go away, if dope is legalised.

Not sure on that. In Canada, where the black market persisted after legalization, the black market prices are about a quarter of what they are here. Im sure that is aided by the climate there which makes growing in bulk outdoors extremely cheap and easy.

c.p.w.g.w

I have a buddy, who doesn't consume alcohol because his a horrible drunk...

Friday evening after work, he gets high on whatever drug takes his mood, and he gets grief from family and some friends...lots of rubbish about it ruining his life etc etc...

He earns €80k ish a year and now owns his house outright...yeah his life is ruining ruined by taking magic mushrooms and cannabis 1 or 2's a week...but a bottle of wine a night is perfectly normal, sure the french and Italians do that :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Wanderer78

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

I have a buddy, who doesn't consume alcohol because his a horrible drunk...

Friday evening after work, he gets high on whatever drug takes his mood, and he gets grief from family and some friends...lots of rubbish about it ruining his life etc etc...

He earns €80k ish a year and now owns his house outright...yeah his life is ruining ruined by taking magic mushrooms and cannabis 1 or 2's a week...but a bottle of wine a night is perfectly normal, sure the french and Italians do that :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

illegal drugs are obviously not harm free, you d never know with them

c.p.w.g.w

Wanderer78 wrote: »

illegal drugs are obviously not harm free, you d never know with them

Nor are legal drugs...Alcohol is more damaging...Just look at A&E's(Pre-Covid) on a friday & saturday...and it student towns/cities Tuesdays & Wednesdays

the purple tin

It is a political hot potato. I don't think any of the main parties would want to put it forward and risk losing votes.

c.p.w.g.w

How much do the AGS spend a year on Drug related crime? If that money could be spent on social issues and mental health services we would be much better of place as a whole...oh and add in the tax from cannabis sales too

i_surge

As a country we have already decided that her body her choice is the correct principle....time to apply it universally.

Black market substances are a public health issue. We have a generation who grew up smoking filthy soapbar and mixing that with tobacco gaining an addiction to nicotine. Victims of prohibition. Now it is unflushed fertilizer filled mouldy uncured herbal material, equally dangerous to health. Compare and contrast with the healthy vaping and edibles culture in the USA and no tobacco mixing.

It is a no brainer on economic, health, crime and moral grounds.

Wanderer78

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

How much do the AGS spend a year on Drug related crime? If that money could be spent on social issues and mental health services we would be much better of place as a whole...oh and add in the tax from cannabis sales too

the legalise campaign does need to realise though, legislation wont solve all drug related issues, and in fact would introduce some of its own

i_surge

Strumms wrote: »

I can see the value of it, if it’s medicinal, and doctors can prescribe it and you can buy it from a pharmacy.

For simply for recreation, no. We have enough trouble in the country with a legal recreational drug (alcohol), without adding cannabis into the mix. The fallout from doing that would simply cost the state too much revenue.

Ask any cop and they will agree that cannabis use will temper the terrible culture we have around alcohol. Less violence for sure.

Tony EH

snotboogie wrote: »

Not sure on that. In Canada, where the black market persisted after legalization, the black market prices are about a quarter of what they are here. Im sure that is aided by the climate there which makes growing in bulk outdoors extremely cheap and easy.

Canada is an outlier in many areas and no country can be really used as a universal benchmark at the end of the day.

But, consider this. Criminals make millions selling illegal cigarettes on the streets of Ireland, even though they're available in every newsagents on every street corner and they're "taxed" and "regulated". I see no reason why they wouldn't continue their illegal selling for dope either.

Plus, in Amsterdam, the criminal element never disappeared and there's a thriving black market for drugs there.

I just don't buy this idea that criminal gangs will just give up and disappear, if dope became legal. It isn't going happen. But it always seems to get touted as a given by the pro legalisation crowd.

My needle isn't buried on this either way, but the pungent smell of what's around today suggests a far different thing than when I used to puff away when I was younger. making me somewhat reluctant to come down on the legalise it side of things.

But I think in any conversation to do with this, it's better to talk straight, than to indulge in fantasy scenarios about how "wonderful" everything would be.

jimmycrackcorm

Over the last few decade a lot of effort has gone into trying to reducing tobacco use. Now people want to encourage smoking agin but with cannabis?

Carfacemandog

the purple tin wrote: »

It is a political hot potato. I don't think any of the main parties would want to put it forward and risk losing votes.

It's probably a bit if a generational thing alright, though a few older people have mellowed on views of it they may have had 20-30 years ago from the looks of things. My guess is it will be ledgal in Ireland in about a decade, though not really any sooner and I wouldn't be shocked to see it take a bit longer than that. 10 years ago I would have said that was never going to happen (or at least for many, many years) but I would have said the same about same sex marriage and abortion too.

A wider education on the topic would also be hugely beneficial, not just for those against it but for many who smoke too, because 4-5 joints on the other hand also isn't healthy yet some people do it and seem to think because it's easier to function the next day than after a good few units of alcohol.

Carfacemandog

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Over the last few decade a lot of effort has gone into trying to reducing tobacco use. Now people want to encourage smoking agin but with cannabis?

Doesn't need to be smoked, in Canada vaping, edibles and gel capsules are very popular. Those types of options don't really exist in Ireland, for the most part.

biko

I tend to agree with Mike Skinner
"How can something with no recorded fatalities be illegal?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZx5OgKQNrA

snotboogie

Tony EH wrote: »

Canada is an outlier in many areas and no country can be really used as a universal benchmark at the end of the day.

But, consider this. Criminals make millions selling illegal cigarettes on the streets of Ireland, even though they're available in every newsagents on every street corner and they're "taxed" and "regulated". I see no reason why they wouldn't continue their illegal selling for dope either.

Plus, in Amsterdam, the criminal element never disappeared and there's a thriving black market for drugs there.

I just don't buy this idea that criminal gangs will just give up and disappear, if dope became legal. It isn't going happen. But it always seems to get touted as a given by the pro legalisation crowd.

My needle isn't buried on this either way, but the pungent smell of what's around today suggests a far different thing than when I used to puff away when I was younger. making me somewhat reluctant to come down on the legalise it side of things.

But I think in any conversation to do with this, it's better to talk straight, than to indulge in fantasy scenarios about how "wonderful" everything would be.

Illegal cigarettes are produced legally in other countries and are imported due to differences in tax. This is completely distinct from the cannabis supply chain. Still 4 in 5 cigarettes smoked in Ireland are still bought legally. 20% illegal is a lot better than 100% illegal.

The criminal element in Amsterdam never disappeared because its illegal to grow cannabis in bulk but not to sell it. Nearly 100% of weed is bought legally by the consumer but produced illegally by criminals. Amsterdam is a great example of how a safe environment has eliminated the black market on the consumer side but vague laws have allowed criminality to persist on the production side.

i_surge

snotboogie wrote: »

20% illegal is a lot better than 100% illegal.

It is amazing to see the poor reasoning from many on this. The principle of harm reduction is completely lost on them.

80% less revenue for gangs is still 80% less revenue for gangs. Most people would prefer to obey the law in their dealings.

You can buy counterfeit clothes too but the majority of people still go to real retailers.

s1ippy

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Over the last few decade a lot of effort has gone into trying to reducing tobacco use. Now people want to encourage smoking agin but with cannabis?

You don't have to smoke it. You can bake with it or vaporise it as well. The vapes you can get take a bud and turn it onto harmless but very pleasant vapour which gets you monged. A lad I met at a festival had one. Seemed like a win-win. You're just inhaling plant air that makes you feel excellent.

Here's a video depicting the kind of stupid sh!te that young lads be doing. Just gives them a really bad attitude to law enforcement. The "bust" is at the start of this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzzFeF6L0gw

They're absolute idiots, especially the second lad who should definitely be charged but they're of an age where consequences don't matter and breaking the law is a healthy response to unfair regulations. If it were legal, the government could get a cut.

Godeatsboogers

Let the young fellas with their tracksuit pants tucked into their socks run the industry sure, they seem rational. It's a multi million pound industry that's never going away causing less harm than alcohol. The misinformation and disinformation around it has the opinions that matter scared. The future generations wont be so naive and in the pocket of the alcohol and tobacco lobbyists. We needed to get ahead of it decades ago, there will always be a black market now, even after decriminalisation or legalisation.

The people in power have been extremely short sighted. You dont have to see in to the future to see how the drug trade will evolve. You only have to go to places where it has evolved, like Mexico

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Wanderer78 wrote: »

illegal drugs are obviously not harm free, you d never know with them

As is the case with every drug.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

the legalise campaign does need to realise though, legislation wont solve all drug related issues, and in fact would introduce some of its own

No-one believes it will. Ultiamately, it's an issue of personal choice.

i_surge

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Well enough to be growing the **** though. Bottom line: it’s illegal.

Closer to the truth

"The law is an ass"...and I would add so is anyone who accepts it without question.