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Galway traffic

ben.schlomo

Seemed light this evening, seeing as there doesn't seem to be a thread on traffic here I said I'd start this due to the importance of the issue.

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Johnny_BravoIII

at1withmyself wrote: »

Absolutely pointless arguing against each other. Doesn't everyone here ultimately want the same thing to reduce Galway Traffic, well then its the combination that will achieve this!

Some here want less traffic with more cars. How? I don't know, but they do.

Some here even argue we don't have traffic issues and can fit more cars. Again, wtf?

I even recall 1 person saying in recent weeks shop st was better with cars and we should consider re-opening to relieve traffic issues. Again wtf?

People love their cars. Disliking cyclists is the entry ticket to this club. Any slight against car usage is a slight on their love. Again, wtf?

These types of people occupy key decision-making positions locally. They defy common sense for their car love.

The people who make decisions have worked their way up in the council. They are not trained urban designers/town planners.

My view is the city will remain choked for decades and suffer the consequences. I don't see any signs of the council considering a progressive approach. I would not consider living within a car commute in Galway for the next decade. I wouldn't encourage less experienced loved-ones to commute in the city by bike. Apply my choices on a business level and you start to understand the consequences

TwoWheeledTim

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

These types of people occupy key decision-making positions locally. They defy common sense for their car love.

My view is the city will remain choked for decades and suffer the consequences. I don't see any signs of the council considering a progressive approach.

This is a problem. I don't want to be personal but what has the current Chief Executive of the city council achieved in the last 7 years in the job?

And how did someone with career experience only in county councils containing no major urban centres (Wexford, Roscommon, Galway County, Kildare and Meath) get the position overseeing the job of unlocking the urban traffic problem? He's stuck in the county council mindset.

CowboyTed

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

CowboyTed is there any chance you're a Project Manager?

Getting awful flashbacks to non-technical PMs I've worked with that only want percentages and numbers but have little to no understanding of the realities of ongoing projects!

Actually Technical Lead with Project Manager as well... But mainly technical...

Tim, I asked what was the realistic target and what is needed to get there... I got nothing back...

Look at other cities and they set realistic targets... They then build on them...

You make it sound like I am the enemy of some sort... I have said that having unrealistic targets, then failing miserably to achieve them looses credibility...

CowboyTed

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

10km is very managable for a daily commute. But you're also picking the far ends of the city, there are huge numbers doing even shorter commutes and trips into town/shops/cafes so we should scrap any future plans for them too?

OK, well let's use your own example above.

O'Connell Street to Sandyford is 91m of climbing.
Knocknacarra to Ballybrit is 49m of climbing, almost half.

You're talking out of your exhaust...

Tim,

I didn't say that... I am trying to explain why there is so little cycling usage along one of the main routes during peak hours...

I was point out that there isn't many in Dublin doing cycling commutes. This is because of Galway's relative low population density just to Dublin. Not many would consider that a daily commute on bicycle even if it had a cycle lane.

Your huge numbers are 5.5%...

Again what is the realistic target for Cycling in what timeframe, with what infrastructure?
This is not Field of Dreams with build it and they will come...

Tim, I presume you cycle this everyday and well done but do you think you can get 1 in every 5 people on average with the constrains I said before doing it?

gordongekko

CowboyTed wrote: »

Again what is the realistic target for Cycling in what timeframe, with what infrastructure?
This is not Field of Dreams with build it and they will come...

But you've told us all its pointless in building more cycle lanes and ignored the reasons why the one example you used hasn't worked. You told us we must just build more PT but ignored that its failure rate in knocknacarra is worse than the cycle lane usage. You ignore anything that doesn't agree with your argument and just keep saying the same thing over and over again.

We havent built the cycling infrastructure while we have build the PT infrastructure , The vast majority of PT has failed. Is cycling a failure? We cant tell because we haven't tried it.

TwoWheeledTim

CowboyTed wrote: »

Again what is the realistic target for Cycling in what timeframe, with what infrastructure?

This again?

I'm not engaging with your percentages game yet because you based that discussion with references to percentages in a report or document which I've repeated asked for a link/reference to but you've ignored. Where are you even getting your current percentages from?

I've responded to your query about topography... and your response is looking for share percentages.

You've said Dublin is flatter, when challenged you've ignored.

I've responded to your ebike issues and asked what your issues are with legislation, you've ignored.

You've repeatedly talked about a glorious 10km continual cycle way, I've responded to the issues with maintenance and how it's disjointed and throws the cyclists into traffic or through very dangerous junctions. You've ignored and repeated along with a new fantasy that they're poorly maintained because there's no cyclists. Chicken/egg.

You've said that cyclists already have good facilities and it has been tried but failed yet on other posts you've said cycling in Galway City is dangerous.

You've said cycling is almost non existent yet some cyclists don't go out in bad weather which is clear from the much heavier traffic those days... contradicting yourself again.

You're going in circles because people are responding to you, you're ignoring and responding with different issues which have already been addressed and you've evaded those responses.

what_traffic

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

You've repeatedly talked about a glorious 10km continual cycle way, I've responded to the issues with maintenance and how it's disjointed and throws the cyclists into traffic or through very dangerous junctions. You've ignored and repeated along with a new fantasy that they're poorly maintained because there's no cyclists. Chicken/egg.

You've said that cyclists already have good facilities and it has been tried but failed yet on other posts you've said cycling in Galway City is dangerous.

In CowboyTed's world your meant to remove your hands from the handlebars and put your thumbs in your ears and your fingers over your eyes and go la la la la la la while cycling though those junctions like the Browne Roundabout (behind UHG)

what_traffic

CowboyTed wrote: »

Before any infrastructure was built 12 years ago it was 1% lower... Since then a full cycle lane has been completed between Knocknacarra and Ballybrit. Threadneedle road has a lane.

This is false statement again. There is NO "full" anything.
Former service ducting path now marked as a "cycle path" does not make a continuous cycle network when we have multilane roundabouts scatterred along your fantasy route.

[Deleted User]

what_traffic wrote: »

This is false statement again. There is NO "full" anything.
Former service ducting path now marked as a "cycle path" does not make a continuous cycle network when we have multilane roundabouts scatterred along your fantasy route.

God forbid they would have to cycle around a roundabout! Christ its would boil your brain listening to cyclists.

biko

what_traffic, cool the jets a bit.

TwoWheeledTim

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

God forbid they would have to cycle around a roundabout! Christ its would boil your brain listening to cyclists.

It's OK(ish) for experienced assertive cyclists but a real deterrent for newer cyclists. Its limiting growth of commuters. Doing anything beyond a 12 o'clock exit is especially dangerous. I think you just need to hop on a bike to fully appreciate the dangers.

The current answer is to get off your bike and walk, but with poor to no pedestrian crossings at the roundabouts you'll be really slowed up crossing multiple arms.

Thankfully these are being replaced, very very slowly but surely.

donvito99

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

Doing anything beyond a 12 o'clock exit is especially dangerous.

In my view the only safe exit would be the first/9 o'clock. Go straight ahead and you risk someone running you over if you don't take the lane or maintain your right arm out/up to indicate you're going straight on.

But this is exactly the point regarding cycling "infrastructure" here. You can point to it as a driver and say, "see, nobodies using the big cycle lane to my left" when in fact said lane stops abruptly and forces you to either dismount, mix with pedestrians or time a merge back into the general lane. This means that experienced cyclists won't use them because they are an inconvenience and timid cyclists will stay away as they are just unsafe.

[Deleted User]

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

Thankfully these are being replaced, very very slowly but surely.

One of the worst decisions in the history of Galway traffic. Things were far better traffic wise without traffic lights bloody everywhere.

NeftDaslari

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

One of the worst decisions in the history of Galway traffic. Things were far better traffic wise without traffic lights bloody everywhere.

Not for us that have to walk everywhere

Laviski

NeftDaslari wrote: »

Not for us that have to walk everywhere

if there was effective PT you wouldn't have too

TwoWheeledTim

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

One of the worst decisions in the history of Galway traffic. Things were far better traffic wise without traffic lights bloody everywhere.

The Bodkin roundabout was regularly locked up, blocking up the bridge and was replaced in 2013.

Throughput over the bridge increased right after the conversion.

Data%20Graph_1.jpg

More info: https://platform.yourdatastories.eu/DataStories/niallob/impact-replacing-roundabout-smart-traffic-lights-galway-city

at1withmyself

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Things were far better traffic wise without traffic lights bloody everywhere.

Eh no they weren't but I assume you mean they were better for you.

what_traffic

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

It's OK(ish) for experienced assertive cyclists but a real deterrent for newer cyclists. Its limiting growth of commuters. Doing anything beyond a 12 o'clock exit is especially dangerous.

100% agree, people who can do it - will do it. Am in the bracket for now (as probably Marcelo Delightful Neurology can), but the expectation that Multilane lane roundabouts can be negotiated by a wide group of users is a fallacy. I will avoid doing anything beyond 12 o'clock exit as much as possible. Some of the replacment juntions are still not great.
Roundabouts were removed by TII to improve car throughput(that was No 1 reason) as you have outlined, not actually done for pedestrians or cyclists.
Will Van Immense Bug be able to cycle round a multilane lane roundabout when hes retired?

xckjoo

Tis mad that people don't want to feel like they might be killed any second during their commute to work. Cheek of them

[Deleted User]

Junctions have been far better than the roundabouts for traffic. Much safer too.

[Deleted User]

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

The Bodkin roundabout was regularly locked up, blocking up the bridge and was replaced in 2013.

Throughput over the bridge increased right after the conversion.

More info: https://platform.yourdatastories.eu/DataStories/niallob/impact-replacing-roundabout-smart-traffic-lights-galway-city

A lot more to do with more people on the road due to the economy recovering than the removal of roundabouts.

donvito99

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

A lot more to do with more people on the road due to the economy recovering than the removal of roundabouts.

I'll trust the expert/lad who's given it more than 2 seconds of thought on this one.

What we found was that traffic flow over the Quincentenary bridge decreased by 4.7% during the construction work but increased by an average of 12.7% two years later (See table 1 below). We checked out a similar project on the old Dublin Road at Moneenageisha completed in 2009. Once complete the maximum deviation in terms of traffic flow at this junction was less than 4% year on year. Without any material changes to a junction, this is what we would expect. As such, it would appear that increases to traffic flow on the N6 in 2015 are as a result of the improvement works on the junction.

CowboyTed

gordongekko wrote: »

But you've told us all its pointless in building more cycle lanes and ignored the reasons why the one example you used hasn't worked. You told us we must just build more PT but ignored that its failure rate in knocknacarra is worse than the cycle lane usage. You ignore anything that doesn't agree with your argument and just keep saying the same thing over and over again.

We haven't built the cycling infrastructure while we have build the PT infrastructure , The vast majority of PT has failed. Is cycling a failure? We cant tell because we haven't tried it.

Actually I suggested HOV/PT/Limited Commercial lane (from existing lanes) first during peak hours and got the almost taken off me...

I am willing to give PT a chance as they shown more promise than cycling and they suffer less in bad weather.

I am always saying trial things for short periods and review. It this culture & trust was in place a trial of the cycle lane of the Prom would have been easier... Personally I think Dr Mannix rd would be better but I am open to short term trials and learning... trial and error...

CowboyTed

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

This again?

I'm not engaging with your percentages game yet because you based that discussion with references to percentages in a report or document which I've repeated asked for a link/reference to but you've ignored. Where are you even getting your current percentages from?

I've responded to your query about topography... and your response is looking for share percentages.

You've said Dublin is flatter, when challenged you've ignored.

I've responded to your ebike issues and asked what your issues are with legislation, you've ignored.

You've repeatedly talked about a glorious 10km continual cycle way, I've responded to the issues with maintenance and how it's disjointed and throws the cyclists into traffic or through very dangerous junctions. You've ignored and repeated along with a new fantasy that they're poorly maintained because there's no cyclists. Chicken/egg.

You've said that cyclists already have good facilities and it has been tried but failed yet on other posts you've said cycling in Galway City is dangerous.

You've said cycling is almost non existent yet some cyclists don't go out in bad weather which is clear from the much heavier traffic those days... contradicting yourself again.

You're going in circles because people are responding to you, you're ignoring and responding with different issues which have already been addressed and you've evaded those responses.

Generally Dublin is flatter... Sandyford is the start of the Dublin Mountains... I was making the point that many people in Dublin wouldn't consider a O'Connell St to Sandyford as a daily cycle commute... I was pointing out that a 10km cycle commute is not reasonable to many people... Drumcondra to Blackrock is not reasonable either to many...

I responded positively to E-bikes but again up take is low... Sorry I know percentages isn't your friend but Galway has a modal share of 5.5% for cycling. That is higher than every other city outside Dublin but is still poor..

I have tried to explain possible reasons and you seem to think I am criticizing you. I am not. I am just taking reality and saying how is that going to change.

You say E-Bikes are there... Great... But still at 5.5%... Westside built still at 5.5%... Tell us what is a realistic target and howe can it be achieved.

I reference a document which we don't have a copy of before... It was a 2008 Galway transport plan which had an aim of 20% Cycling, 20% PT, 20% Walking and 40% Cars I think... The Cycling and Public Transport are definitely right. You can say I am lying but nobody is disputing the Galway Corporation didn't produce drivil before.

Seriously look at this, this is Stockholm
http://www.sootfreecities.eu/sootfreecities.eu/public/measure/walking-cycling
That is a realistic target and how they intend to get there...

Paris...
https://ecf.com/system/files/ChristopheNajdovski_ParisCyclingPolicies.pdf
Now that one looks unrealistic they want to go from 5% (at best) to 15% in three years.. How could that be taken seriously.

At 5% galway doesn't owe cycling mush more on it's transport routes but if it can show how it intends to take on all the challenges of Galway and increase cycling to a realistic level then I am more than willing to listen and trial...

CowboyTed

at1withmyself wrote: »

Thanks for adding this, I have cycled in many cities (and the non cities) around Ireland and would never say Galway has many hills! I have no idea how someone can use that as a negative, the weather I get as an challenge but the so called hills!

Why can't Galway have upgrades for Public Transport, Cycling & Walking. Why must we chose one, the idea is to update them all simultaneously. Absolutely pointless arguing against each other. Doesn't everyone here ultimately want the same thing to reduce Galway Traffic, well then its the combination that will achieve this!

What I think would be worth considering at (again trial) is bus stops with bicycle sheds... You have certain designated stops (especially on Knocknacarra side) which have bike sheds with security (i.e. cameras ) and well maintained...
The bus route is simplified and when you stop you get on your bike and have < 5min cycle home. This is very popular in Amsterdam except they use trams.
They also have bike share at these stops as well...

I am surprised this wasn't suggested by the more pro-cycling here....

[Deleted User]

Good to see positive news confirmed on the project that will really make a difference to the city traffic.

The minister reaffirming the vital importance of the bypass to Galway city and county and confirming that funding for the project is secure.

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/finance-minister-says-funding-for-key-galway-projects-is-secure/?fbclid=IwAR2Z53ugxDJRe4Uv5rUa_QZf3k0OK8GH4yLEFnos0JL34OwmYx3Zy4ySrCQ

TwoWheeledTim

CowboyTed wrote: »

At 5% galway doesn't owe cycling mush more on it's transport routes

Or at 5% Galway clearly owes cycling much more on its transport routes.

Out of interest, I'll just ask again, where is the 5% from? I want to read more on detailed traffic counts etc but not a lot of data openly available.

CowboyTed

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

A lot more to do with more people on the road due to the economy recovering than the removal of roundabouts.

Increase in Population
University getting bigger
Economy increasing
Higher rents mean more students driving

12.7% can be for a lot of reasons... higher rent would be a big one... If you cam from Athenry, Headford, Tuam or Balinrobe it was way cheaper to live at home and drive...

Also is this measuring during peak hours or all the time?

I am not saying one way or the other... But someone paid €1.8 million for a junction and he had to make it look like it worked...

CowboyTed

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

Or at 5% Galway clearly owes cycling much more on its transport routes.

Out of interest, I'll just ask again, where is the 5% from? I want to read more on detailed traffic counts etc but not a lot of data openly available.

Tim,

Comes from the Corpo....

I agree with you that we need better more transparent figures...

TwoWheeledTim

CowboyTed wrote: »

Comes from the Corpo....

Ah come on, you can't constantly throw around % without giving a link or reference so people can read what data/survey it's based on.