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Blatant Cheating

dan_ep82

Been on the forum a few years now and it always seems to come up regularly.

The main one seems to be handicap manipulation. Even here, where I'd judge we have more golfers who are in it for the love of the game and not the winners circle accusations are thrown around a bit.

Then you have the winks and nods about certain clubs about inter club comps. ( I don't follow interclub so couldn't comment on this)

What I'd like to know is have you ever caught someone blatantly cheating, where if you had a go pro on your head it's a clear cut case?

I'm playing 5 or 6 years and I've only ever suspected one guy of breaking the rules on purpose to better his ( admittedly atrocious ) score on the day.

With the way some posters go on you would expect alot of instances but I don't think we will get them.

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Wichita Lineman

Several years ago I was playing in a team classic where the teams were split up and one guy in our group blatantly pulled a ball back into play with his club from beyond a boundary fence. He played a lovely chip across onto the green and holed out for a par. That was until I asked him to put it as a blank seeing as I had watched him pull it in from OOB. He didnt deny it. Happened about halfway and he didnt speak to me for the rest of round but I wasnt exactly bothered.

seanl77

The animal scrapping used to be a serious bone of contention in my club, we used to have a bit of a rabbit problem especially early in the year. Jaysus some lads were claiming it 3 or 4 times a round, always when behind a tree or close to a obstruction of course. I once refused to sign a scorecard for my playing partner, he pulled the handbrake on the 17th green with a ridiculously obvious 4 putt from 15 feet after some idiot came down from the clubhouse to inform him of the leaders score. He knew he couldn't win so decided to make sure he wouldn't get cut. This was in one of the two majors, i was only a young lad back then but no way was I signing it. Safe to say there was serious words exchanged in the car park after by both parties.....

billy3sheets

Funny thing I noticed in a game with an older guy was he would do various things to try to get you to play first even though it was clearly his turn. Mostly on and around the green. He'd develop a cough, something in his eye, a shoelace to be tied. Took me a couple of holes to realise there was a pattern.
Not cheating but certainly gamesmanship. Funny really the lengths some people go to.

gypsy79

Had a lad play with me on Wednesday who was a pavilion member of a upper class Dublin course but maintained a distance membership in another course

Anyway I played with two lads. Had 32 points. Missed loads of small putts. I had more points than both of them combined

one lad wasnt in competition. He basically told me he just wanted get his handicap down from 25.

I check results and see he has entered 38 points. He came ****ing 4th

I dont think he was trying to win

But he put a 4 in for our index 1 for 4 points and he lost 3 balls off tee. Enough said

Second abuse of COVID relaxations I have seen

swededmonkey

gypsy79 wrote: »

Had a lad play with me on Wednesday who was a pavilion member of a upper class Dublin course but maintained a distance membership in another course

Anyway I played with two lads. Had 32 points. Missed loads of small putts. I had more points than both of them combined

one lad wasnt in competition. He basically told me he just wanted get his handicap down from 25.

I check results and see he has entered 38 points. He came ****ing 4th

I dont think he was trying to win

But he put a 4 in for our index 1 for 4 points and he lost 3 balls off tee. Enough said

Second abuse of COVID relaxations I have seen

Did you verbally confirm scores with him after the round?

gypsy79

swededmonkey wrote: »

Did you verbally confirm scores with him after the round?

No, I was in a rush to get somewhere and he was been deliberately obtuse. Thats why I suspected there was going to be an issue. It was his behavious that aroused my suspicions.

Clearly I knew he was worried about what his handicap was to his friends in his southside club.

I reported to our handicap secretary

REFLINE1

BraveDonut wrote: »

Recently seeing a lot of players finding their ball waaaayyyy after the 3 minutes and just carrying on.

Told a guy he couldn't play the ball outside of his 3 minutes and he was not happy

Was he an experienced player?

blue note

newindublin wrote: »

- I have counted strokes on a player i am not carding and seen a stroke shaved more than once. But never with a player who was anywhere near a good score, so I usually write it off as saving some face for someone struggling to break 20 pts on the day.

I'm sure at times it is someone cheating and probably justified to himself by saying it's not affecting anyone. The unfortunate truth there is that the person it actually affects most negatively is the person doing it, because people will notice and judge him for it.

But I imagine the majority of times when someone turns a 23 point round into a 24 point one it is an innocent mistake. We all pay less attention to our scores when we're that far off the buffer zone.

In both cases they're terrible habits to be in, but I wouldn't lose sleep over either of those cases. Whereas someone turning a 38 into a 39 I wouldn't be giving anyone the benefit of the doubt.

youcancallmeal

I have rarely seen much blatant cheating in big summer competitions but in winter when placing is allowed and it's not qualifying it's a free for all. Many times seen lads placing an extremely generous 1ft away from trees/bushes.

GreeBo

gypsy79 wrote: »

I check results and see he has entered 38 points. He came ****ing 4th

I dont think he was trying to win

But he put a 4 in for our index 1 for 4 points and he lost 3 balls off tee. Enough said

Who plays 4 balls off the tee in a stableford competition?

blue note

youcancallmeal wrote: »

I have rarely seen much blatant cheating in big summer competitions but in winter when placing is allowed and it's not qualifying it's a free for all. Many times seen lads placing an extremely generous 1ft away from trees/bushes.

Placing is another rule that's constantly broken actually. Some people seem to think the 6 inches means the nearest available good lie to you. There are times in winter when there's still no good lie within 6 inches of your ball. When that happens you should place in the best bad lie available to you.

BraveDonut

blue note wrote: »

Placing is another rule that's constantly broken actually. Some people seem to think the 6 inches means the nearest available good lie to you. There are times in winter when there's still no good lie within 6 inches of your ball. When that happens you should place in the best bad lie available to you.

I have also seen players place their ball only to decide that they are not happy with the result and then placing it again - with another generous 6 inches.

gman127

I have recently experienced a situation that I'm still pondering what to do and would appreciate some input for you good folks on here and this seems a good a thread as any!

Playing with Player A, making general conversation, he has some family also playing at the club so ask how all are doing, playing much etc.
As plain as day says that his brother is 'minding his handicap' so that he can defend a major title he won last year :mad:

Then during this round and a subsequent one with a friend of mine later in the week, Player A on a few occasions either misses silly putts or doesn't even bother to search for his ball that could be easily found etc after he makes the turn with over 20 points and in danger of a good score.
And then after one of the rounds submits a score of 30 points even though his partner marked him for 32, which could have kept him in the buffer.

So, long story short, how would you approach this sort of blatant handicap minding? Both lads off about 25 and capable of at least 18 if not better (Player A was off 10 a few years ago!

)

I plan to bring the issue to the mens committee or captain or handicap secretary or something but would appreciate some advice first. Cheers

joebloggs32

My dad went to play in a team in a classic fir the GAA club he played with back in the 60s.
He left the parish back then and no longer lives in the area.
He met a lad at a funeral who invited him to play with them so he accepted.
When they reached the first green the lads started to give each other the gimme puts....no finishing out.
My father who was single category 1 player for probably 40 years asked them what they were doing. They said its what they always do....give each other the short puts like you do in the casual fourball!

I know of other lads that won prizes in a couple of scrambles. Wouldn't be playing too long and I couldn't figure out how they were scoring so well.
They were breaking the rules on the double.
First they were applying their "shots" individually, so if player A holed the putt and his normal handicap gave him a shot at the hole they were counting it.
Also when putting if player A missed his first putt he would try and get his second pit in, before player b took his, thus giving the other 3 a free putt.

gypsy79

GreeBo wrote: »

Who plays 4 balls off the tee in a stableford competition?

He also placed another ball on the fairway and played it in!

The only defence in his favour was that he asked me what normally wins. I told it had been crazy with 45 plus lately. I had a feeling from the way he was talking about his handicap that something odd would happen. He isnt even a 25 tbf

He obviously thought that it was a victimless crime, playing one of his comps to get his 4 for the year and a little cut while not venturing near the prizes

GreeBo

gypsy79 wrote: »

He also placed another ball on the fairway and played it in!

The only defence in his favour was that he asked me what normally wins. I told it had been crazy with 45 plus lately. I had a feeling from the way he was talking about his handicap that something odd would happen. He isnt even a 25 tbf

He obviously thought that it was a victimless crime, playing one of his comps to get his 4 for the year and a little cut while not venturing near the prizes

I wouldnt have let him hit 4 off the tee, what about the people behind?!

GolfNut33

A mate of mine was telling me that an old boy was caught teeing up the ball on the fairway during the winter months at his course. Pretended he didn't know you couldn't do it.

The old lads seem to be the worst.

PARlance

GolfNut33 wrote: »

A mate of mine was telling me that an old boy was caught teeing up the ball on the fairway during the winter months at his course. Pretended he didn't know you couldn't do it.

The old lads seem to be the worst.

Slightly related.

Had a one in a million, or more, event happen me on a casual round in Portugal last year. My drive was in the right rough, as per usual. As we approached I said that looks to be sitting up quite nice to a playing partner. When we got to it, there it was sitting on a tee in the rough.

Couldn't believe it was my ball but there was no other ball in the vacanity, it was exactly where we thought it would be and it was the same number I was playing (resort ball, hadn't put any other id on it). The chances of it coming to rest on top of a tee in the rough have to be astronomical.

The next shot may have also ended up on a tee but I didn't follow it out of bounds to check.

Someone must have decided to give themselves a little helping hand before me.

Rikand

GreeBo wrote: »

Who plays 4 balls off the tee in a stableford competition?

Someone who has 2 shots on the hole

prawnsambo

PARlance wrote: »

Someone must have decided to give themselves a little helping hand before me.

Could have been marking the spot for a drop. People often use tees for that.

hurleronditch

I once played years ago with a now current government minister and his brother in an intermediate scratch cup. The minister had a brilliant round, he was a low teens player and I’d say he went round in 6 over, I think he may have lost on count back. The brother had a mixed round, but made a lovely up and down on the last for The equivalent of 33 points. I had offered to mark all 3 cards, and as we were walking back to the clubhouse the TD was on the phone and I was making small talk with the brother, commenting that his brother would get a tasty cut. I then said “great up and down on the last; that’ll get you into the buffer zone”. He looked at me puzzled, I explained what the buffer was (news to him) and he half jokingly berated me, saying why didn’t I tell him on the last. He then quite seriously said I’m on 11.4, I needed that .1 to get back to 12 for the captains next week I’d have fxuked it in the lake if I’d known.

PARlance

prawnsambo wrote: »

Could have been marking the spot for a drop. People often use tees for that.

Ya but no real reason to be dropping anywhere near the spot. There was a big group of trees about 30 yards ahead and in line with the hole so a tee would have helped.

hurleronditch

PARlance wrote: »

Ya but no real reason to be dropping anywhere near the spot. There was a big group of trees about 30 yards ahead and in line with the hole so a tee would have helped.

Scramble?

Synode

Rikand wrote: »

Someone who has 2 shots on the hole

Yeah a nice up and down on a Par5 off the 4th ball :pac:

PARlance

hurleronditch wrote: »

Scramble?

Well if that was their best drive.... ðŸ˜‚

From the position and given the fact that it was a resort in Portugal. I'd say it was someone in a casual round giving themselves a chance of getting over the trees ahead.

The crazy part of the story is more that my ball managed to come to rest on the tee itself.

[Deleted User]

Few boys in our club would put a tee through their mat in winter to 'hold it' in position. But they would then place the ball on the tee.

padmcv

PARlance wrote: »

When we got to it, there it was sitting on a tee in the rough.

I've heard of this being done by the group in front as a warning to stop hitting into them

GreeBo

padmcv wrote: »

I've heard of this being done by the group in front as a warning to stop hitting into them

Yeah, thats what I was going to say

The_Kew_Tour

I would hate to be accused or cheat full stop.

It sticks nowhere better than a Golf Club.

My local club as a Juvenile was always those 4 or 5 you had be “wary off”. One old guy in particular had a reputation of cheating in captains prize. After years of knowing and playing with him I knew it was BS. He told me later on that the guy who accused him on the day had a personal hate for him for years before over bit of land that he tried to buy off the him and it fell through. Many people knew it was not in him to cheat as he was straight up, but it still stuck with a few and some were afraid to speak up for him.

But it stuck with him and even stuck with him till he died. Not everything is Black and White.

ThunderCat

I remember years ago when I first took up the game I joined the golf society in work and on the first outing I was in a threeball with a fella and woman from one of the offices in another location so I didn't know them or anything. Think I was given the max handicap and to be honest I had no clue of how handicaps worked at that time.

Anyway I was marking her card for the round and I noticed quite quickly that the scores she was telling me she had was not true to the amount of strokes she took. So for example she may have got a 9 but she'd tell me she got a 6. Being brand new to the game I thought that she was factoring in her handicap and that all was grand. Well if she didn't win every prize under the sun that day. Same thing happened on the next outing and even though I was paired with her it was another fella in the group that was marking her card and she did the same to him. He was a much better golfer than me so I just presumed this was how it was done. I was telling whoever was marking my card my true strokes of course because I didn't know how to factor in my handicap and just thought they would do it for me which is why I didn't get pulled up on it.

That second outing marked the end of the season - I joined late into it. As I played more and more casual games with different people and started chatting golf with them, aswell as starting to read golf magazines and the likes I soon realized how big of a cheat she was. She was subtle enough too because when you asked her score she would be waving her fingers around in the air adding the shots up. It wasn't just an instant 5 or anything. Didn't see her at the first society outing of the year after that but was praying she would be there and in the same group as me again. No leather wedges or preferred lies or animal scrapings. Just a plain old inability to count past 6.