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Galway traffic

ben.schlomo

Seemed light this evening, seeing as there doesn't seem to be a thread on traffic here I said I'd start this due to the importance of the issue.

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[Deleted User]

topcat77 wrote: »

Motorist pay Carbon Tax not road tax. How much tax does an electric car pay?

Semantics. It’s road tax, you only need it if you go on the public road.

donvito99 wrote: »

In all likelihood the cyclists are paying tax but doing us a favour and leaving the car at home.

I still pay tax on my second car even when I drove my primary car to work.

ben.schlomo

Laviski wrote: »

Those countries actually have someone in panning that has a braincell. A lot of European countries have way better PT that Ireland could ever hope to achieve even half of it. Cycle infra goes as part of that solution.

Oh right, so it's just a rant then, not actually something that any forward thinking country has introduced as a means to encourage greater cycling numbers which in turn would go some way to reducing car use and thereby easing traffic as part of an overall plan.

So maybe instead of taxing cyclists to use sub standard and non existent infrastructure, maybe it could be argued that providing said infrastructure would actually benefit everyone on the road. Radical thinking.

donvito99

Laviski wrote: »

Road tax is for road infrastructure and maintenance. So road tax should foot the bill for cyclist infra that cyclist barely use.
Makes sense.

Isn't road tax thrown into the general pot and therefore no direct relationship with actual maintenance or capex on roads? Tolls are the closest we come to actually paying for maintenance for roads.

In any case, we should absolutely be encouraging cycling and discouraging driving in urban areas. So a tax on bikes/scooters/rollerblades or whatever would just be stupid.

donvito99

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I still pay tax on my second car even when I drove my primary car to work.

Exactly. Which is why we should pay by the km for road use, not some sort of arbitrary fee. The more you drive and wear the roads, the more you pay.

Laviski

donvito99 wrote: »

Exactly. Which is why we should pay by the km for road use, not some sort of arbitrary fee. The more you drive and wear the roads, the more you pay.

Where does a cyclist contribute to that? It's ignorant to think they all have cars.

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Oh right, so it's just a rant then, not actually something that any forward thinking country has introduced as a means to encourage greater cycling numbers which in turn would go some way to reducing car use and thereby easing traffic as part of an overall plan.

So maybe instead of taxing cyclists to use sub standard and non existent infrastructure, maybe it could be argued that providing said infrastructure would actually benefit everyone on the road. Radical thinking.

Selective reading seems to be a strong ability of yours.

Recap.. galway
it rains lot
isn't a flat city.
Has poor PT with perhaps one exception being the 409.

Cyclists demand demand demand, if all your demands are met do you honestly think it will solve traffic issues in galway. God no so let get back on topic than bark all day with no bite.

Cyclist need to get off their high horse. To Get people out of their cars you need real solutions so telling them to hop on a bike just isn't going to happen. Money is best spent on bus lanes with a bus connects type program with effective p&r facilities on the out skirts .

This is what I said already. Tax thing on cyclist would never happen but making the point they vocal but not contributing. Every motor vehicle that use the road pay tax.
Other countries have effective PT with then providing cycle infra as money allows. Some cities just focus on PT with minimal cycle infra as they probably had to prioritize due to funds.

donvito99

Laviski wrote: »

Where does a cyclist contribute to that? It's ignorant to think they all have cars.

So when do you start taxing pedestrians for walking on footpaths?

ben.schlomo

Laviski wrote: »

Where does a cyclist contribute to that? It's ignorant to think they all have cars.

Selective reading seems to be a strong ability of yours.

Recap.. galway
it rains lot
isn't a flat city.
Has poor PT with perhaps one exception being the 409.

Cyclists demand demand demand, if all your demands are met do you honestly think it will solve traffic issues in galway. God no so let get back on topic than bark all day with no bite.

Cyclist need to get off their high horse. To Get people out of their cars you need real solutions so telling them to hop on a bike just isn't going to happen. Money is best spent on bus lanes with a bus connects type program with effective p&r facilities on the out skirts .

This is what I said already. Tax thing on cyclist would never happen but making the point they vocal but not contributing. Every motor vehicle that use the road pay tax.
Other countries have effective PT with then providing cycle infra as money allows. Some cities just focus on PT with minimal cycle infra as they probably had to prioritize due to funds.

And long non sensical ranting is yours. Taxing cyclists. An inability to see how providing cycling infrastructure will increase cycling numbers. A fear of exercise. Just some of your points so far.

Nobody has said that cycling solves all traffic issues, point out where it's been said if you think that. But to blatantly ignore/downplay the role it can play, along with PT is just mind boggling stuff. Not everyone is afraid of the odd drop of rain or cycling up a hill for a minute or two, if that's too much for you then stick with your four wheels and enjoy the traffic. There are currently many people cycling to work and many more who would if the infrastructure was in place to support it.

You speak of demand, demand, demand, what demands have Galway's cyclists made that have been met?

xckjoo

donvito99 wrote: »

Exactly. Which is why we should pay by the km for road use, not some sort of arbitrary fee. The more you drive and wear the roads, the more you pay.

This really should be the approach. It would give people an incentive to take alternatives whenever possible and let them manage costs better. Probably too difficult for the government to implement though.

Laviski wrote: »

Where does a cyclist contribute to that? It's ignorant to think they all have cars.

Selective reading seems to be a strong ability of yours.

Recap.. galway
it rains lot
isn't a flat city.
Has poor PT with perhaps one exception being the 409.

Cyclists demand demand demand, if all your demands are met do you honestly think it will solve traffic issues in galway. God no so let get back on topic than bark all day with no bite.

Cyclist need to get off their high horse. To Get people out of their cars you need real solutions so telling them to hop on a bike just isn't going to happen. Money is best spent on bus lanes with a bus connects type program with effective p&r facilities on the out skirts .

This is what I said already. Tax thing on cyclist would never happen but making the point they vocal but not contributing. Every motor vehicle that use the road pay tax.
Other countries have effective PT with then providing cycle infra as money allows. Some cities just focus on PT with minimal cycle infra as they probably had to prioritize due to funds.

I don't remember any cyclist telling other people they must start cycling (but there's probably a few who do cause there's lots of nuts out there). Most of the campaigns are related to providing safer and better infrastructure for people that already cycle; which should have the knock-on effect of encouraging more people to cycle (voluntarily). There's a safety aspect with poor cycling infrastructure that isn't there with public transport infrastructure. It can be hairy out there sharing the road with bad drivers.

I do agree though that public transport should be the main priority. We should be looking to make it the fastest way to commute for the vast majority of workers. People will be happy to use it if it's getting them to/from work faster than the car. Add in some fancy extras like bus shelters, real-time info and fast hop on/hop off facilities and we'll be laughing.

But while we're doing this we should also look to improve the infrastructure for cycling and walking (why does walking always get forgotten about). There's huge cost, health and efficacy of movement benefits to them at a low cost of implementation.

[Deleted User]

ben.schlomo wrote: »

And long non sensical ranting is yours. Taxing cyclists. An inability to see how providing cycling infrastructure will increase cycling numbers.

I would question that to be honest. I think most people who want to cycle are doing so already, I can't see people deciding to suddenly change to cycling just because they have a slightly better cycle lane it still has all the other disadvantages. Cycle lanes wouldn't even be on the list of reasons why I personally do not see cycling as a practical way of regularly commuting (leaving aside the fact its impossible and totally impractical for me due to distance).

TwoWheeledTim

Laviski wrote: »

eco warriors out in full force. Have wet gear have a bike have water proof backpack but gear up going to work or to town knowing weather is pelting, good luck. Will take the car every time as many do which is very evident on wet days on how bad traffic is.

But I thought the cycling was "barely existent"?...

ben.schlomo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I would question that to be honest. I think most people who want to cycle are doing so already, I can't see people deciding to suddenly change to cycling just because they have a slightly better cycle lane it still has all the other disadvantages. Cycle lanes wouldn't even be on the list of reasons why I personally do not see cycling as a practical way of regularly commuting (leaving aside the fact its impossible and totally impractical for me due to distance).

Nox why would anyone suggest that you, a country dweller, should or would cycle to Galway city. It wasn't suggested and is a pointless comment. Cycling is ideal for anyone living within a 10km commute of their workplace. We already know that you hate cycling, wouldn't get on a bike, won't walk let alone cycle in the rain, drive your car to the door of every business you use. It's all been said before Nox.

You only ever see one side of any debate Nox, yours.
On the other hand I see why people drive, I don't cycle to work every day but almost always do. The car's handy for numerous reasons but it also has many drawbacks. Cycling is very handy if you live in the city. A 12 minute commute for me versus a 30/45 minute car or PT journey depending on traffic.

donvito99

The average commute in Ireland - rural and urban - was 3km at the last census.

TwoWheeledTim

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I would question that to be honest. I think most people who want to cycle are doing so already, I can't see people deciding to suddenly change to cycling just because they have a slightly better cycle lane it still has all the other disadvantages.

A LOT of people got back on bikes during lockdown, adults who hadn't been on bikes since they were young. All the bike shops are struggling to maintain stock at the moment... every bike they can get is going out the door. The community bike workshop expanded (pop-up at Galway Shopping Centre) and have had to stop taking in bikes as they're overloaded with the demand.

Lots of stories of "new" cyclists becoming aware of the infrastructure failings now that cars are taking over the roads again.

All the council's that are jumping on the surge are dead right to move now and the government funding for temporary improvements have allowed them.

xckjoo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I would question that to be honest. I think most people who want to cycle are doing so already, I can't see people deciding to suddenly change to cycling just because they have a slightly better cycle lane it still has all the other disadvantages. Cycle lanes wouldn't even be on the list of reasons why I personally do not see cycling as a practical way of regularly commuting (leaving aside the fact its impossible and totally impractical for me due to distance).

I can tell you from personal experience that I cycle less in the last few years due to lack of cycling infrastructure. I actually find it best at peak traffic times because most cars are stationary. And most people are amazed if you say you cycle in Galway since "it's so dangerous"

at1withmyself

Add a tax to petrol, maybe?

There is no incentive to use public transport, I have a car so at the weekend we can drive into town and park for 3 hours which costs less then the bus for the 2 of us in & out (@9e).

I realise I'm not including factors liks tyre wear, petrol etc.. But that is minimal.

I think public transport costs too much, if they could make the cost more attractive alongside increasing the network of bus lanes then that would be a good start.

In regards the cycling lanes, a regular maintenance schedule on the current ones would be a good start. Then alongside the increase to the bus lanes, also increase the cycle lanes in parallel.

This thread goes through the same cycle (excuse the pun) but I think most seem to agree that an improvement is needed on all modes of transport and a well thought out improvement to 1 mode should have a positive impact on the others. If 10% of drivers moved to buses, bikes or walking then it would reduce traffic and thus an improvement for drivers?

Just because someone suggests improving one mode doesn't make them anti every other mode, ffs!

xckjoo wrote: »

This really should be the approach. It would give people an incentive to take alternatives whenever possible and let them manage costs better. Probably too difficult for the government to implement though.

I don't remember any cyclist telling other people they must start cycling (but there's probably a few who do cause there's lots of nuts out there). Most of the campaigns are related to providing safer and better infrastructure for people that already cycle; which should have the knock-on effect of encouraging more people to cycle (voluntarily). There's a safety aspect with poor cycling infrastructure that isn't there with public transport infrastructure. It can be hairy out there sharing the road with bad drivers.

I do agree though that public transport should be the main priority. We should be looking to make it the fastest way to commute for the vast majority of workers. People will be happy to use it if it's getting them to/from work faster than the car. Add in some fancy extras like bus shelters, real-time info and fast hop on/hop off facilities and we'll be laughing.

But while we're doing this we should also look to improve the infrastructure for cycling and walking (why does walking always get forgotten about). There's huge cost, health and efficacy of movement benefits to them at a low cost of implementation.

at1withmyself

Laviski wrote: »

Road tax is for road infrastructure and maintenance. So road tax should foot the bill for cyclist infra that cyclist barely use.
Makes sense.

I think this is an excellent idea, we could also include walkers using footpaths. Now how do we calculate which is causing most damage and expensive repairs, that would help then to apply appropriate charges. So the user causing most costs basically pays the most "road" tax.

Also let's clarify exactly how much is taken from general taxes to pay towards the road network so we can apply that for each user. At a guess I would think walkers would suddenly be getting paid to walk!

Laviski

Sure why not
Better than some of the daft notions single minded thinking.

Laviski

ben.schlomo wrote: »

You speak of demand, demand, demand, what demands have Galway's cyclists made that have been met?

Feck all thankfully and hope that trend continues.

Bus connects for galway with bus lanes.
If money allows give provision for cycling but if doesn't so be it. At least traffic issues can be addressed which is the point of this thread as people will not ditch their cars especially in poor weather.

Some people think money grow on trees. If it does let's build a metro for galway cause for some here looks like they never had to balance a budget in their life

ben.schlomo

Laviski wrote: »

Feck all thankfully and hope that trend continues.

Bus connects for galway with bus lanes.
If money allows give provision for cycling but if doesn't so be it. At least traffic issues can be addressed which is the point of this thread as people will not ditch their cars especially in poor weather.

Some people think money grow on trees. If it does let's build a metro for galway cause for some here looks like they never had to balance a budget in their life

So it's demand, demand, demand made but then you say feck all were made. Bizarre stuff. I'd leave the town planning to the planners and stick to the anti cycling rants.

Whereisgalway

ben.schlomo wrote: »

So it's demand, demand, demand made but then you say feck all were made. Bizarre stuff. I'd leave the town planning to the planners and stick to the anti cycling rants.

Yawnnnnnnnnnn

ben.schlomo

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/115786/my-kind-of-town-a-vision-for-galway-post-covid-19

at1withmyself

Laviski wrote: »

Recap.. galway
isn't a flat city.

Out of interest, what do you mean by this?

Galway City and surrounding suburbs are pretty flat. There some minor inclines to deal with but none more than a minute or two long that I can think of. Is there another city you had in mind that was flatter then Galway?

How flat does an area need to be to cycle in?

Mrs OBumble

at1withmyself wrote: »

There some minor inclines to deal with but none more than a minute or two long that I can think of.

Agree with you that there are virtually no hills. But the trip from the city to Briarhill is more or less one long incline, which takes a lot more than 2 minutes.

Mrs OBumble

Whereisgalway wrote: »

What business's apart from taxis are open at 4am

24 hour service stations.
Hospitals: on call specialists may be travelling to work at any time of the day or night.
Some medical device factories run all-night shifts.
Pre-covid, there were some buses that ran overnight, so there would be bus drivers travelling home. Don't know if this will still happen post.
Also pre-covid, some night entertainment venue staff would likely be travelling home at about 4am-sih.
Some council workers are travelling to work between 4 and 5am.
I'd guess some bakers would be doing the same.

xckjoo wrote: »

4am seems like an appropriate time to be driving at 30kmph on those streets as there'll be drunk people doing stupid things like wandering randomly only the road

Did you notice that I said "on a Tuesday" and "on Merchants Rd" - there are sections of it where there is excellent visibility due to no parked vehicles, and low chances of drunk-wanderlings.

Whereisgalway wrote: »

And these would be advocating for the speed limit to be increased?

There is no advocating for it to be increased.

There is advocacy for blanket lowering the limit to 30km/h, because apparently some people are too stupid to understand the difference between a limit and a target.

ben.schlomo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Agree with you that there are virtually no hills. But the trip from the city to Briarhill is more or less one long incline, which takes a lot more than 2 minutes.

Depends what way you go I suppose. Out Bohermore you've two small inclines and one good downhill. Tuam Rd is flat, downhill and eventually an incline at Applegreen. Then it's pretty much flat out the N6. Just need to know your route.

John_Rambo

Laviski wrote: »

Where does a cyclist contribute to that? It's ignorant to think they all have cars.

Plenty of studies have shown that cyclists are not only more educated than average, but also earn a higher than average income and spend more than average at local shops. Believe me, they're paying tax! Usually more than you average motorist sitting in traffic scratching their heads and wondering why the traffic is so bad!!

[Deleted User]

John_Rambo wrote: »

Plenty of studies have shown that cyclists are not only more educated than average, but also earn a higher than average income and spend more than average at local shops. Believe me, they're paying tax! Usually more than you average motorist sitting in traffic scratching their heads and wondering why the traffic is so bad!!

cyclists are more educated and earn more? What a load of absolute fantasy.

cal naughton

John_Rambo wrote: »

Plenty of studies have shown that cyclists are not only more educated than average, but also earn a higher than average income and spend more than average at local shops. Believe me, they're paying tax! Usually more than you average motorist sitting in traffic scratching their heads and wondering why the traffic is so bad!!

Wow that is some generalization you have applied there!

Any links to the studies which show the superiority of cyclists?

Time

John_Rambo wrote: »

Plenty of studies have shown that cyclists are not only more educated than average, but also earn a higher than average income and spend more than average at local shops. Believe me, they're paying tax! Usually more than you average motorist sitting in traffic scratching their heads and wondering why the traffic is so bad!!

They're more smug too

John_Rambo

cal naughton wrote: »

Wow that is some generalization you have applied there!

Any links to the studies which show the superiority of cyclists?

Sure. They can even use google.

https://bettercitiesnow.wordpress.com/2010/09/05/are-cyclists-richer-more-educated-bigger-spenders/

"cyclists are not only more educated than average, but also earn a higher than average income and spend more than average at local shops (full details below, courtesy of this article):
• Studies have shown that pedestrians and cyclists stay longer and spend more money at local shops than drivers do.
• According to a study by Mintel, regular cyclists – those who cycle at least once a week – are disproportionately likely to be well educated, have a household income of at least $75,000 per year"

They also break far more rules than drivers.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists-break-far-fewer-road-rules-than-motorists-finds-new-video-study/#15484c804bfa

They also make much better drivers than non-cycling motorists.

https://gearjunkie.com/study-cyclists-better-drivers-than-motorists

So, you need to thank cyclists not only for freeing up the roads, but for the higher rate of tax they pay to maintain the roads AND for keeping them safer.