ESB eCars

That was my main reason for not getting an i3.
The rex made sense and I liked the performance.

But it's too small, only 4 small seats, and looks like a moon buggy

Cyrus

Deleted User wrote: »

I can only imagine being away with the Family, pull up to a charger and a car charging 2 queuing and the missus whinging in my ear for the duration getting madder and madder as time goes on, "we'd have been almost home if you had your i3 still, next time we're going in the Outlander"

fair enough but an I3 isnt going to suit everyone.

i can imagine trying to pack a buggy, a couple of suitcases and the assorted paraphenalia needed for a family holiday in an I3. actually i cant

charlieIRL

Deleted User wrote: »

Indeed we are going to need a lot more chargers and I was saying that the introduction of charging per Kwh won't see the elimination of queuing.

And I still say the Rex is as relevant today as it was when it was released.

Even if I have 500 Km range, at some point when away from home I'm going to need to use public charging and currently it's not nearly good enough.

We need a minimum of 4 DC chargers per site nothing less is good enough.

We don't expect petrol or diesel drivers to queue so why are EV drivers expected to do with 1 charger mostly per site ?

I think every garage in Ireland should have 4 chargers per site minimum.

It does make me think twice about getting rid of the Rex, you just can't beat it, passing queues at chargers, or pull into a garage, car charging, another waiting, fill up with petrol and drive off.

I can only imagine being away with the Family, pull up to a charger and a car charging 2 queuing and the missus whinging in my ear for the duration getting madder and madder as time goes on, "we'd have been almost home if you had your i3 still, next time we're going in the Outlander"

Very true.

My gang are great, they prefer going on trips in my car compared to my wife's and know we have to factor in a charge if we go any great distance but when you check all charge points on your route and they are all busy - it gets very frustrating.

[Deleted User]

charlieIRL wrote: »

I was travelling to Barna / Spiddal yesterday and called into the Galway plaza for a charge, app showed all chargers were free. There was a Model 3 / Ionic and a Tacan charging, all had just started charging. Ionic driver had to park sideways to get charging, a shocking design flaw with the chargers.

I went on again and pulled into the FCP in Newcastle, Galway. A few seconds after i started charging a Leaf / Kona and Model 3 pulled in to charge. There was another Model 3 there charging on the 22kW charger. I know we've mentioned it here load of times before but if we are going to continue with more and more EV's on the road, we are going to need a hell of a lot more charging points.

Indeed we are going to need a lot more chargers and I was saying that the introduction of charging per Kwh won't see the elimination of queuing.

And I still say the Rex is as relevant today as it was when it was released.

Even if I have 500 Km range, at some point when away from home I'm going to need to use public charging and currently it's not nearly good enough.

We need a minimum of 4 DC chargers per site nothing less is good enough.

We don't expect petrol or diesel drivers to queue so why are EV drivers expected to do with 1 charger mostly per site ?

I think every garage in Ireland should have 4 chargers per site minimum.

It does make me think twice about getting rid of the Rex, you just can't beat it, passing queues at chargers, or pull into a garage, car charging, another waiting, fill up with petrol and drive off.

I can only imagine being away with the Family, pull up to a charger and a car charging 2 queuing and the missus whinging in my ear for the duration getting madder and madder as time goes on, "we'd have been almost home if you had your i3 still, next time we're going in the Outlander"

charlieIRL

I was travelling to Barna / Spiddal yesterday and called into the Galway plaza for a charge, app showed all chargers were free. There was a Model 3 / Ionic and a Tacan charging, all had just started charging. Ionic driver had to park sideways to get charging, a shocking design flaw with the chargers.

I went on again and pulled into the FCP in Newcastle, Galway. A few seconds after i started charging a Leaf / Kona and Model 3 pulled in to charge. There was another Model 3 there charging on the 22kW charger. I know we've mentioned it here load of times before but if we are going to continue with more and more EV's on the road, we are going to need a hell of a lot more charging points.

Stealthirl

liamog wrote: »

I'd suspect that the introduction of fees for charging has caused a reduction in the overall energy requirement.

1 GWh of energy over 7600 cars is 131kWh each. If you take the annual mileage of 17,000km and an average efficiency of 20kWh/100km then the average monthly energy requirement per vehicle is 283kWh. So it would seem at the time of the report, the average EV obtained 46% of it's energy from public charging. I think that number is excessively high.

I'm only counting the cars listed in the report as FastAC/CCS/CHAdeMO.

Id say there was a lot of cars only using free charging before the introduction of fees while those of us with home charging didn't bother with the hassle to save a few €€€
Picking figures out of the sky here but 50% could have been using free charging while the other 50 only used it on long trips. Personally i used it 34 times over about a year and most of that was on trips over 100km but now i take the ICE on long trips as it's cheaper (We can claim 60c back on every L of petrol, almost half price)

liamog

McGiver wrote: »

I'd say it would be higher now, way more cars and larger batteries also. Not sure if double though. But let's say 4-5M year + taxpayers money.

I'd suspect that the introduction of fees for charging has caused a reduction in the overall energy requirement.

1 GWh of energy over 7600 cars is 131kWh each. If you take the annual mileage of 17,000km and an average efficiency of 20kWh/100km then the average monthly energy requirement per vehicle is 283kWh. So it would seem at the time of the report, the average EV obtained 46% of it's energy from public charging. I think that number is excessively high.

I'm only counting the cars listed in the report as FastAC/CCS/CHAdeMO.

[Deleted User]

McGiver wrote: »

I'd say it would be higher now, way more cars and larger batteries also. Not sure if double though. But let's say 4-5M year + taxpayers money.

Question is - what are the running and maintenance costs?

I would think more kwh would mean less personal use of charge points, but there is an increasing numbers of electrics on the road too.

innrain wrote: »

I skimmed read the article and I found interesting the figure 11 which shows usage of over 1000 MWh per month in Feb 2019. And that is before larger batteries came on the market. at 25c per kWh that's € 250 k per month or about € 3M a year. And since than the number of EV probably doubled.

I'd say it would be higher now, way more cars and larger batteries also. Not sure if double though. But let's say 4-5M year + taxpayers money.

Question is - what are the running and maintenance costs?

Calahonda52 wrote:

You too young to remember Ardnacrusha power plant?

Obviously we're not talking about essential heavy duty infrastructure here??? Like supplying electricity to the citizens....

Silent Running wrote:

I know of a couple of providers where you can avail of free Polar Plus membership allowing you to charge free, or at greatly reduced rate at any Polar charger, and there are a huge amount of Polar chargers in the UK.

You see the problem in Ireland is that hardly anyone is able to see beyond Wales and England to find out what's out there. UK is frankly irrelevant and generally an outlier in many things Europe wide. I don't really care about them, especially now with Brexit. There are good policies and ideas beyond these " British Isles". No offence to anyone associated with England. Just that the reliance on UK isn't healthy. It shows even in government policies (wait until UK do it and then copy them etc.).

On the continent almost every charging is paid, apart from freebies at the supermarkets etc.

Busman Paddy Lasty

innrain wrote: »

Still. The largest battery at the time was 38kWh? How many 64kWh Kona/Eniro/Esoul, not to mention Tesla M3s were sold since. To bad ecars does not provide this data as eirgrid does.

Small cohort of drivers using it daily, regardless of battery capacity. Large battery cars and a Rex car would be driving past occupied charge points.

If my local AC is anything to go by some people haven't bothered getting a home charger or are very very cheap.

innrain

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Figures post Nov 2019 will be a fun comparison. 1000 MWh of free juice vs ??? MWh paid service.

Still. The largest battery at the time was 38kWh? How many 64kWh Kona/Eniro/Esoul, not to mention Tesla M3s were sold since. To bad ecars does not provide this data as eirgrid does.

I'm sure there was a massive drop off in use after payment

Busman Paddy Lasty

Zenith74 wrote: »

Might make for an interesting poll! Wonder if it includes slow and fast chargers?

Ha yes it would! I'm going for about 350 MWh assuming it's DC only.

* CHAdeMO and CCS make up about 600 MWh of that total. The Type 2 portion in grey makes up for an awful lot of it too.

Zenith74

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Figures post Nov 2019 will be a fun comparison. 1000 MWh of free juice vs ??? MWh paid service.

Might make for an interesting poll! Wonder if it includes slow and fast chargers?

Busman Paddy Lasty

innrain wrote: »

I skimmed read the article and I found interesting the figure 11 which shows usage of over 1000 MWh per month in Feb 2019. And that is before larger batteries came on the market. at 25c per kWh that's € 250 k per month or about € 3M a year. And since than the number of EV probably doubled.

Figures post Nov 2019 will be a fun comparison. 1000 MWh of free juice vs ??? MWh paid service.

innrain

Stealthirl wrote: »

From this report https://www.mdpi.com/2032-6653/11/1/18

I skimmed read the article and I found interesting the figure 11 which shows usage of over 1000 MWh per month in Feb 2019. And that is before larger batteries came on the market. at 25c per kWh that's € 250 k per month or about € 3M a year. And since than the number of EV probably doubled.

Silent Running wrote: »

Any you do quite a high mileage, don't you?

I think most EV drivers would be the same and wouldn't use it enough to justify any subscription... but you would probably switch your home electricity supplier if they offered you free or reduced cost charging on a popular network, like Polar in the UK.

Yes I would (pre covid) have done >50k a year.

I would indeed switch for a reduced rate if it made sense.

unkel wrote: »

Not a chance I'll pay any of them even a fiver a month for a subscription

It does seem like a viable business model though. In NL you pay Fastned €0.59 /kWh PAYG or €0.35 /kWh as a member paying €11.99 per month subscription. I would happily pay the former for the rare occasion I need public fast charging. The latter is for people who do a lot of travel and of course for the people who don't have a car charge point at home for their EV (a considerable and growing percentage of EV owners in the Netherlands but almost 0% of owners in Ireland)

But Fastned are like Ionity, they don't do home electricity (do they?).

My point was specific to the likes of SSE who offer special domestic rates to EV owners. SSE don't do that here. I wonder why not.

ELM327 wrote: »

I don't think I'd pay a subscription as I don't use it enough.
Most routes are now covered by SuC, Ionity-Maingau and easygo that I don't need a subscription for.

Any you do quite a high mileage, don't you?

I think most EV drivers would be the same and wouldn't use it enough to justify any subscription... but you would probably switch your home electricity supplier if they offered you free or reduced cost charging on a popular network, like Polar in the UK.

I don't think I'd pay a subscription as I don't use it enough.
Most routes are now covered by SuC, Ionity-Maingau and easygo that I don't need a subscription for.

unkel

Silent Running wrote: »

Wouldn't it be crap if you paid €35 a month while others are being paid to take electricity?

Not a chance I'll pay any of them even a fiver a month for a subscription

It does seem like a viable business model though. In NL you pay Fastned €0.59 /kWh PAYG or €0.35 /kWh as a member paying €11.99 per month subscription. I would happily pay the former for the rare occasion I need public fast charging. The latter is for people who do a lot of travel and of course for the people who don't have a car charge point at home for their EV (a considerable and growing percentage of EV owners in the Netherlands but almost 0% of owners in Ireland)

Calahonda52

McGiver wrote: »

Exactly.

Let the state focus on what they can (or could) do right - legislation, regulations and incentives. Not on building infrastructure which they were proven to be bad at time and time again.

You too young to remember Ardnacrusha power plant?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_hydroelectric_scheme

unkel wrote: »

There's even a company in the UK - Octopus - that pay you if you take their electricity at some times :cool:

This is the new future of massive renewables where at some times electricity is very cheap, free, or even has a negative value while we adjust our grid (storage) to cope with it. Interesting times! I'm ready for it, within a year I hope to have at least 120kWh of storage that I can connect to my house

Wouldn't it be crap if you paid €35 a month while others are being paid to take electricity?

unkel

Silent Running wrote: »

Other companies have tariffs that offer EV owners a night rate even cheaper than the normal economy 7 night rate to attract customers.

There's even a company in the UK - Octopus - that pay you if you take their electricity at some times :cool:

This is the new future of massive renewables where at some times electricity is very cheap, free, or even has a negative value while we adjust our grid (storage) to cope with it. Interesting times! I'm ready for it, within a year I hope to have at least 120kWh of storage that I can connect to my house

McGiver wrote: »

Free? Where?

All what I see is paid charging across the whole Europe.

Actually, electricity providers seem to be favouring subscription/tariff based solutions rather than PAYG.
I think that's the way it will move ahead.

You've checked every retail electricity provider across the whole of Europe? :eek:

I know of a couple of providers where you can avail of free Polar Plus membership allowing you to charge free, or at greatly reduced rate at any Polar charger, and there are a huge amount of Polar chargers in the UK.

Some offer free miles as part of their home electricity account. Shell for Example. Even the woeful Ecotricity offer cheap public charging if you are a home electricity customer. That's just from speaking to people at chargers in the UK. People love to tell you that you're paying for something they're getting free.

Other companies have tariffs that offer EV owners a night rate even cheaper than the normal economy 7 night rate to attract customers.

As mentioned, Scottish Power give free charging. I'm sure with a little digging there would be more examples in the UK and more across Europe.

I hope you're wrong about the subscription stuff. Many won't even subscribe to Ecars here as they don't public charge enough to justify it; a huge amount of people do most of their charging at home/work, me included.

But sure, if you put ideas in their heads in a public forum, maybe they'll take you up on your offer of €35 per month.:P

graememk

McGiver wrote: »

NI is not a country in true sense. Scotland is a borderline case in fairness. Any actual independent countries in Europe?

And it's run by a company in the republic!, same problem as here but with even less funding