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Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

iamstop

If you are using the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag and don't know any better or are confused why people are mad at you let me explain it:
1. The original hashtag 'BlackLivesMatter' was a reaction to a string of well documented cases of police brutality that resulted in the death of a long list of unarmed black people. On top of that there was no appropriate punishment for the police officers involved. They mostly got paid or unpaid leave until the heat died down and continued back at their jobs after that. Meanwhile the families and friends of the deceased got no justice. This sends shockwaves of trauma throughout the immediate community, the country of the US and the rest of the black population outside of the US too. This original hashtag started to really shine a light of the system wide oppression of black people in America and elsewhere.
2. The oppressors decided that this hashtag would gather too much momentum and decided they needed to water it down and dilute it with 'alllivesmatter' to protect the racist system that they benefit from. And to some degree it's working (COINTELPRO). Every time you use that hashtag you are doing the work of the oppressor. You are being used as a pawn. You are being manipulated into diluting a movement that's main goal is end police brutality.
2a. Nobody using the 'BlackLivesMatter hashtag is saying Only Black Live Matter. It is universally understood that all lives matter.
3. So, now that you are educated on the deceitful and hateful and manipulative reasons for this 'alllivesmatter' hashtag to exist you should stop doing the work of the oppressor and stop using it and stop being used.
3a. If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human.

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Mad_maxx

Foxtrol wrote: »

The US is a welfare state now??

You didn't dispel anything. Back 50 years ago poor women were much likelier to be single mothers than wealthy ones.

Trying the old Strawman again. Where did anyone say it is the solely explained by it?

You bought up tallaght which is in Ireland last time I checked

Cupatae

Foxtrol wrote: »

Seeing that in the US the black community has a higher rate of being religious than white, it is pretty clear people are just making things up now.

Still have BLM up on that pedastal eh? Black people can still do no wrong in your eyes

at some point your gonna be forced to assign some blame to them I know it's tough and I know you think they are some sort of saintly beings but you ll eventually have to come back to reality and realize some black people make dumb decisions and are involved in alot of crime not all of them.. but there are alot.. the statistics simply do not lie.You can kick and scream and deflect but the numbers tell the story.

Cupatae

kildare lad wrote: »

.

You'd wonder wats the excuse they have, for a lot of the black teenagers running amok in certain parts of Ireland over the last few years ? They're the only race I know of that glorifies drug dealing , crime, pimping , violence , bitches in their music . And yet they'll blame whitey for all their problems

It's Abit ironic really but of course this will just be breezed over by those fighting the good fight and defending all things BLM.. all blame to be assigned to whitey!!

Foxtrol

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Having kids as an unmarried couple is another unideal setting for kids to be raised in. If you look at the UK some poor ethnic groups eg. bengalis have the highest rates kids in welock. Higher rates than rich white people. While Caribbeans have the lowest. But Africans have relatively high rates. There is some cultural factor. It may be the lack of religion combined with poverty, but what ever it is you are not quite putting your finger on it.

Seeing that in the US the black community has a higher rate of being religious than white, it is pretty clear people are just making things up now.

Foxtrol

Mad_maxx wrote: »

welfare encourages single parenthood so obviously the latter

The US is a welfare state now??

my earlier point was that fifty years ago , single parenthood was far less common ( for cultural - societal reasons ) but poverty was far more common , thus dispelling the alleged inherent link between poverty and single parenthood

You didn't dispel anything. Back 50 years ago poor women were much likelier to be single mothers than wealthy ones.

the left just automatically assume that single parenthood is soley explained by poverty , relatively recent history shows something different

Trying the old Strawman again. Where did anyone say it is the solely explained by it?

Eric Cartman

Foxtrol wrote: »

Correlation isn't causation.

If anything the evidence points to the opposite that you are implying. It isn't race that causes single parent households, it is poverty. Look at Dublin, where are there more single parents - Tallaght or D4?

The welfare state actively encourages single parenthood as a route to a free house and lifetime income supports, coupled with a toothless process to get fathers to actually pay for their children and an even more toothless approach to charging against welfare payments has created a subset of society where the men and women have nothing to lose and the women have a lot to gain by having unprotected sex with as many men as they can and having as many children as they can.

We're literally paying people to re-enact the last days of Rome.

Yellow_Fern

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is pretty simple though some here are really struggling with it. It is the exact same reason white fathers from poor areas in the US and Ireland are more likely to be absent from the home than those from wealthy areas.

Having kids as an unmarried couple is another unideal setting for kids to be raised in. If you look at the UK some poor ethnic groups eg. bengalis have the highest rates kids in welock. Higher rates than rich white people. While Caribbeans have the lowest. But Africans have relatively high rates. There is some cultural factor. It may be the lack of religion combined with poverty, but what ever it is you are not quite putting your finger on it.

Mad_maxx

Foxtrol wrote: »

Now which parts of Irish society have seen the largest increases in single parent families, those coming from wealthy families or poor families?

welfare encourages single parenthood so obviously the latter

my earlier point was that fifty years ago , single parenthood was far less common ( for cultural - societal reasons ) but poverty was far more common , thus dispelling the alleged inherent link between poverty and single parenthood

the left just automatically assume that single parenthood is soley explained by poverty , relatively recent history shows something different

Foxtrol

Mad_maxx wrote: »

poverty was a far bigger issue in ireland fifty years ago yet single parenthood was far less common

the reduced discouragement of single parenthood this past number of decades has encouraged situations which increase the likelihood of poverty

Now which parts of Irish society have seen the largest increases in single parent families, those coming from wealthy families or poor families?

Foxtrol

splinter65 wrote: »

No. Black fathers are more then twice as likely to be absent from the home where their children live as white fathers. You have to ask yourself why that is, because it’s not the fault of white people.

It is pretty simple though some here are really struggling with it. It is the exact same reason white fathers from poor areas in the US and Ireland are more likely to be absent from the home than those from wealthy areas.

joe40

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nope. It just seems that you can't. Of course, it's "something" to do with race.. but is it specifically about race? No.

Forget it. Some people just want make this topic completely about racism, rather than considering extra factors. I should know better at this stage. I'll leave it to others to argue about.

I'm not including you in this, but I find the opposite in this thread.
Your posts do have a bit of balance but most people want to make it all about cultural issues within the AA community nothing to do with Racism or inequality at a societal level.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope. It just seems that you can't. Of course, it's "something" to do with race.. but is it specifically about race? No.

What absolute nonsense. In your posts you spoke about the culture of a race and are now tying yourself in a complete knot saying it has nothing to do with race.

It is as ridiculous as me posting about French people and claiming it has 'something to do' with nationality but not 'specifically about' nationality. :rolleyes:

Forget it. Some people just want make this topic completely about racism, rather than considering extra factors. I should know better at this stage. I'll leave it to others to argue about.

A person can talk about race without racism, it just seems difficult for you and some other posters here.

[Deleted User]

Foxtrol wrote: »

You can't talk about the 'culture' of a specific race and then claim it has nothing to do with race.

Nope. It just seems that you can't. Of course, it's "something" to do with race.. but is it specifically about race? No.

Forget it. Some people just want make this topic completely about racism, rather than considering extra factors. I should know better at this stage. I'll leave it to others to argue about.

splinter65

Foxtrol wrote: »

So you're saying White and Black people in the US started off at the same income levels and the massive differences now in average household wealth between people of the two races is driven by lone parents??

I think it is you that needs to think about it.

No. Black fathers are more then twice as likely to be absent from the home where their children live as white fathers. You have to ask yourself why that is, because it’s not the fault of white people.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

What data? The data does shows a shift in the ratio of single parent families vs traditional families in the 60s... As I said, some of it is due to socio-economic reasons (such as, lack of employment in black communities forcing fathers to work away from home), but there are other cultural shifts within Black culture regarding their own values.

But you're welcome to prove me wrong, rather than simply saying that I'm wrong.

Ever hear of the sexual revolution, with the introduction of better contraceptives?

That's nice, since I didn't attribute anything to race. I attributed it to cultural changes.

We need to deal with the last point before moving on to your other questions, as answering those may be pointless.

What 'culture' are you talking about then? Previous posters quoted stats based on race and you even mention black culture in your post.

You're either talking about the 'culture' of a specific race or the culture of broader society, the latter is fine but has nothing to do with the discussion happening here.

You can't talk about the 'culture' of a specific race and then claim it has nothing to do with race.

Mad_maxx

Foxtrol wrote: »

Slavery and racist laws are completely the fault of the state, however, you inferred the rest because it is the argument you'd prefer to have.

Single parenthood in many situations is personal choice, however it is seen worldwide that those from poorer areas have higher rates of single parenthood. It isn't a race issue, it is a poverty issue.

poverty was a far bigger issue in ireland fifty years ago yet single parenthood was far less common

the reduced discouragement of single parenthood this past number of decades has encouraged situations which increase the likelihood of poverty

[Deleted User]

Foxtrol wrote: »

Data doesn't back you up on however you're trying to twist yourself in knots regarding 'culture'.

What data? The data does shows a shift in the ratio of single parent families vs traditional families in the 60s... As I said, some of it is due to socio-economic reasons (such as, lack of employment in black communities forcing fathers to work away from home), but there are other cultural shifts within Black culture regarding their own values.

But you're welcome to prove me wrong, rather than simply saying that I'm wrong.

If you want to talk about 'culture' changes, the % of single white parents in the US increased at more than double the rate of single black parents during the period you cited. The rate of increase in Irish births to lone parents is even bigger than that. Society as a whole changed.

Ever hear of the sexual revolution, with the introduction of better contraceptives?

Again, whether in Ireland or white or black areas in the US, poverty is the thing they have in common when it comes to higher lone parents. Race doesn't come into it

That's nice, since I didn't attribute anything to race. I attributed it to cultural changes.

And comparisons with Ireland are meaningless.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

It's both a poverty issue and a cultural issue.

Look at the rates of single parents split between the racial groupings. Poverty is party of it, but culture plays a significant role too.

Yes, yes, I know that AA culture has been greatly influenced by the past, but some responsibility rests within the AA community too. Especially considering the rise in the numbers of single mothers over the last fifty years, when arguably, previous to this period AA people would have experienced greater amounts of racism, discrimination, etc. AA culture shifted in the 60s... not solely due to external influences, but within the Black communities themselves, as the image of the family unit changed. Some of that is due to socio-economic factors, but some is due to changing values.

Data doesn't back you up on however you're trying to twist yourself in knots regarding 'culture'.

If you want to talk about 'culture' changes, the % of single white parents in the US increased at more than double the rate of single black parents during the period you cited. The rate of increase in Irish births to lone parents is even bigger than that. Society as a whole changed.

Again, whether in Ireland or white or black areas in the US, poverty is the thing they have in common when it comes to higher lone parents. Race doesn't come into it

Quantum Erasure

That's all white privilege though... (according to a video I saw explaining the term anyway)

[Deleted User]

Foxtrol wrote: »

Slavery and racist laws are completely the fault of the state, however, you inferred the rest because it is the argument you'd prefer to have.

Single parenthood in many situations is personal choice, however it is seen worldwide that those from poorer areas have higher rates of single parenthood. It isn't a race issue, it is a poverty issue.

It's both a poverty issue and a cultural issue.

Look at the rates of single parents split between the racial groupings. Poverty is party of it, but culture plays a significant role too.

Yes, yes, I know that AA culture has been greatly influenced by the past, but some responsibility rests within the AA community too. Especially considering the rise in the numbers of single mothers over the last fifty years, when arguably, previous to this period AA people would have experienced greater amounts of racism, discrimination, etc. AA culture shifted in the 60s... not solely due to external influences, but within the Black communities themselves, as the image of the family unit changed. Some of that is due to socio-economic factors, but some is due to changing values.

Foxtrol

Mad_maxx wrote: »

in both instances , you portray both them problems as completely lying with the state

Slavery and racist laws are completely the fault of the state, however, you inferred the rest because it is the argument you'd prefer to have.

Single parenthood in many situations is personal choice, however it is seen worldwide that those from poorer areas have higher rates of single parenthood. It isn't a race issue, it is a poverty issue.

Mad_maxx

Foxtrol wrote: »

I agree with your latter point, however the problem is that many are in that cycle of poverty because their ancestors did not start as equals and then were repeatedly held down when they tried to escape poverty, through racist laws, arguably right up to this day.

Again, poverty in Ireland is just as generational, despite Ireland offering an enormous amount of additional supports to help people escape.

in both instances , you portray both them problems as completely lying with the state

Foxtrol

BattleCorp wrote: »

Poverty. Household wealth. Whatever you want to call it.

It's harder for a one parent family to escape poverty than it is for a two parent family.

I agree with your latter point, however the problem is that many are in that cycle of poverty because their ancestors did not start as equals and then were repeatedly held down when they tried to escape poverty, through racist laws, arguably right up to this day.

Again, poverty in Ireland is just as generational, despite Ireland offering an enormous amount of additional supports to help people escape.

BattleCorp

Foxtrol wrote: »

Significant factor in what?

Poverty. Household wealth. Whatever you want to call it.

It's harder for a one parent family to escape poverty than it is for a two parent family.

Foxtrol

BattleCorp wrote: »

It may not be 100% of the cause but you can't deny it's a significant factor.

Significant factor in what?

BattleCorp

Foxtrol wrote: »

So you're saying White and Black people in the US started off at the same income levels and the massive differences now in average household wealth between people of the two races is driven by lone parents??

I think it is you that needs to think about it.

It may not be 100% of the cause but you can't deny it's a significant factor.

Foxtrol

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the left view single parenthood as a sacred thing , therefore any obvious downsides to being a single parent are minimised or blamed on the state

of course any situation which further renders someone dependent - more dependent on the state is a good thing from the POV of the left so the more single parents , the better , politically .

What nonsense are you talking about?

Who has said there isn't downsides?

Mad_maxx

splinter65 wrote: »

Can you not see that it’s not the poverty that results in the lone parents, it’s the lone parents that brings the poverty? Think about it.

the left view single parenthood as a sacred thing , therefore any obvious downsides to being a single parent are minimised or blamed on the state

of course any situation which further renders someone dependent - more dependent on the state is a good thing from the POV of the left so the more single parents , the better , politically .

Foxtrol

splinter65 wrote: »

Can you not see that it’s not the poverty that results in the lone parents, it’s the lone parents that brings the poverty? Think about it.

So you're saying White and Black people in the US started off at the same income levels and the massive differences now in average household wealth between people of the two races is driven by lone parents??

I think it is you that needs to think about it.

splinter65

Foxtrol wrote: »

Correlation isn't causation.

If anything the evidence points to the opposite that you are implying. It isn't race that causes single parent households, it is poverty. Look at Dublin, where are there more single parents - Tallaght or D4?

Can you not see that it’s not the poverty that results in the lone parents, it’s the lone parents that brings the poverty? Think about it.