BonnieSituation wrote: » If there's no question then what am I answering? What was unclear in my statement above that needs further clarification?
downcow wrote: » There was no question. Fionn said that you supported the right of Northern Ireland to self-determination. My question is, would you do me a favour and state that without equivocation?
downcow wrote: » Well I wouldn’t go quite that far. I confess I am surprised that Francie is comfortable supporting self-determination for NI. Indeed I am surprised he is comfortable with the whole concept of NI existing. You are the one that said all or most republicans felt similarly (can’t be bothered trawling back to find your actual quote) , I Am sure you won’t mind me making a similar demand for evidence to prove this, and of course you will have it, I am sure or you wouldn’t have stated it otherwise.
BonnieSituation wrote: » What's the question?
FrancieBrady wrote: » You are the only one on this thread (I don't have to trawl posts either, to say it) who has said that 'they could not guarantee to remain peaceful' if the majority vote to end the constitutional status of NI. That's YOU downcow not guaranteeing peaceful acceptance of the agreement you say you support.
downcow wrote: » Fionn was much more clear. He said that you ‘supported the right of Northern Ireland to self-determination’. Now that you are in the debate do you care to confirm that this is the case? No need to reference gfa etc
BonnieSituation wrote: » So what is it we've done now to the poor wee non-sectarian OO that's put DC out? --- No idea why I got dragged into this self determination strawman, but I guess to clear matters up for DC so he can move the goalposts again I probably should engage. I support the GFA and as a Nationalist I look forward to the day we have an independent 32 county republic. Now, until then, any bizarre repartitioning fantasy you have can probably wait. No idea why any Nationalist would want to be joined Together in another weird sectarian statelet, but if you want to lobby for it DC, then more power to you. You have that right as a citizen of a republic.
Fionn1952 wrote: » Expecting someone to back up their assertion is pathetic, Downcow? Perhaps you and I have different standards for debate. I suspect if I made such a wild claim, you'd expect me to provide some evidence. Either way, I'm glad to see that you've acknowledged the claim was totally incorrect so we can move on.
downcow wrote: » Fionn, this is pathetic tbh
downcow wrote: » I am admitting to fionn that I was wrong. I am surprised that you support self-determination for the people of NI. You have certainly cheered me up this Sunday afternoon.
FrancieBrady wrote: » What are you on about? You've lost me.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Well it is yeah. If there was no 1916 history would be very different now. Republicans were basically in too much of a rush, waited 300 years already at that stage and could not wait a few more. A gradual process instead of crash bang wallop. Plus here is a good article entitled '800 years of myths' - which is a good antidote to Republican dogma and myth.https://www.irishtimes.com/news/800-years-of-myths-1.1125328
FrancieBrady wrote: » Nothing to do with Carson and Craig playing soldiers and putting the gun back into Irish politics? It's all dem republicans fault.
downcow wrote: » Well there we are now. I apologise as it seems even Francie supports self-determination for NI. That is genuine learning for me,
FrancieBrady wrote: » Of course I support their right to 'self determination'. I told you this before, if you want self determination for specific areas, then it is up to you to politically lobby for that.
Fionn1952 wrote: » Once more, the burden of proof lies with you. To take your random few, it is down to you to provide evidence that those posters do not support the right of the people of NI to exercise self determination. It isn't down to anyone else to prove your point for you. Either you can evidence your statement or you can't. The absence of negative evidence is not positive evidence itself.
downcow wrote: » I think you misunderstood by post. I was affirming you for referring to Northern Ireland, and I very much appreciate it I regard it as a very respectable gesture from someone who referred themselves as a Republican. I was pointing out that is out of step with most Republicans. Your UVF example is like comparing apples with pairs (I avoided the obvious there). If you said that most of the posters on here thought I was in the UVF, then I would expect posters to be more than willing to come on and challenge that. Anyhow your request was that I find one poster who does not agree with the right of the people of Northern Ireland to exercise self-determination. So let's take a random few. Junkyard Tom, Francie, Bonnie do you support the right of the people of Northern Ireland to exercise self-determination?
downcow wrote: » I think you will find Francie that I did not refer to Sinn Fein having a majority, I referred Sinn Fein's ability to control the people. They are losing that ability areas. That was my point. I haven't checked but I am pretty sure Sinn Fein are the biggest party in the other random area I mentioned i.e. Newcastle, but fortunately there are not too many of the Bobby Story types around Newcastle, so that people are not afraid of Sinn Fein
FrancieBrady wrote: » Rossnowlagh is in Donegal where SF got several quota's in the GE. Once more you blow your own argument out of the water. The reason some parades don't cause bother is more likely to do with some of your community being moderates and not antagonising and taunting. Blaming SF for your people's behaviour...we really are stretching here.
Fionn1952 wrote: » Holy goalposts shifting, Batman! You've just accused me of refusing to refer to NI, I'd appreciate if you at least acknowledged your error before trying to steamroll another pointless dig at Republicanism there. I suspect an apology would be too much to expect though. Republicans choice to refer to NI as the North is no worse than Unionists insistence on erroneously referring to it as Ulster. You call it trawling through posts.....I'd call it providing very basic evidence for your statement. Like I said, 'Downcow is in the UVF' would be a ridiculous statement to make, right? If I refused to provide evidence for a statement like that because I couldn't be bothered trawling through your several thousand posts, it would be dismissed pretty quickly, right? But then again, we don't have any posts where you DENY being in the UVF.....is that evidence of your membership, Downcow?
downcow wrote: » Wrong again Francie with saying parades only take place where there is ‘not a tail about the place’ Parades take place everywhere that sf don’t have enough control over the nationalist community and where reasonably tolerant people who accept diversity are in the majority. Really you statement is ridiculous. eg Rossnowlagh 12th and endless towns across NI eg Newcastle 70% nationalist and all the businesses look forward to the 12th, black Saturday, band parades and all very peaceful festivals in a beautiful setting. ....and you know the list is endless. Why do you try so hard to misrepresent my culture. Oh I forgot, you despise it
downcow wrote: » Fionn I am not trawling back though posts just to prove to you what we all know and what the silence from your mates demonstrate. If you like I’ll ask one or two of them directly here for you? And you are evidencing again that you are out of step with most NI republicans (and fair play to you) by referring to NI
Fionn1952 wrote: » Once more Downcow I'll remind you that you're the one making the claim, the burden of proof lies with you to provide evidence for your point, not everyone else to disprove it. So I'll ask a fourth time, do you have any evidence to back up your statement that the majority of Republicans on here do not support self determination/the GFA? With Francie Molloy, I'll once more remind you of the line in the article you actually presented which specifically states that his statement is out of step with the general SF position. We could both play the game of taking random snippets from single politicians. If I was to present a few choice Sammy Wilson or Gregory Campbell quotes, it wouldn't reflect too well on Unionists, but I wouldn't take their nutjob young earth creationism stances as representative of all of Unionism for example. Finally, with regards to the North, I'd suggest you look back over my last few posts, where I freely move back and forth between the North and NI. I generally refer to home as the North, but I very clearly have no issue with referring to NI either.
FrancieBrady wrote: » 'Your wee festival' is only now passing off relatively peacefully because an independent commission has stopped you from parading in contentious areas. I.E. it passes off peacefully because 'there isn't a Taig about the place' for your community to antagonise and taunt mostly. Examples of this taunting have been given here and there are many many more. Now if you could go a step further and stop the obscenities that take place around bonfires and if the OO accept the above and work with the Parades Commission you might be shown how to win back hearts and minds. But that would probably require the OO to accept that by virtue of it's own constitution, an archaic and bigoted sectarian organisation and fall on it's own sword.
downcow wrote: » Well fionn. To provide yourself as evidence for support for your statement is a stretch. The silence is deafening from your mates. Seems they don’t agree with you. These are guys who are not shy about posting and rarely miss a chance to put me right on things. Accept it! As for Francie Molloy, I just picked that as it was a sf MP saying exactly what I was trying to tell you and he said it in the last few days. Your reply is he is a wildcard - have you noticed he is an MP, I think the shinners only ha about 8 members at those heady heights. You are out of step. You know whats really funny. You tried to repeat what I asked but you had to replace NI with ‘the north’. You won’t even accept the name we have self-determined LOL
