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Shannon Airport Thread [Mod Warning in First Post]

Clareman

This thread is to discuss all things Shannon Airport related.

Warning, any back biting, regional nonsense, trolling, baiting or back seat modding will lead to bans.

It's also important to remember than that this thread is in a regional forum, not the Aviation forum, if you want to get into details on Aviation, go to that forum. Finally, this is the Clare forum, there will be a bias towards Clare in here, so expect folk to want to defend their county .

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johnjoeR

nthclare wrote: »

I don't know if my fact's are right,but I hear the firefighters and airport police are on huge salaries.

There's not much to police up there at the moment that's for sure and the only flame's to be quinched is the mood up there with the staff.

I'd say the hare's are happy out as there's hardly any traffic and they were there before the airport and after...

One wonders would the airport have remained open at all during the lock down if the DAA still managed it?
BTW there are many hares resident at Dublin airport too! Shannon will outlive the hares and the naysayers. What it needs more than anything is some positive thinking. Not much of that around here.

JamesBond2010

johnjoeR wrote: »

One wonders would the airport have remained open at all during the lock down if the DAA still managed it?
BTW there are many hares resident at Dublin airport too! Shannon will outlive the hares and the naysayers. What it needs more than anything is some positive thinking. Not much of that around here.

He explained what he meant in the next few posts after my comment.

nthclare

johnjoeR wrote: »

One wonders would the airport have remained open at all during the lock down if the DAA still managed it?
BTW there are many hares resident at Dublin airport too! Shannon will outlive the hares and the naysayers. What it needs more than anything is some positive thinking. Not much of that around here.

Not if nature has its way, hare's are protected and if I caught anyone interfering with hare's on my land they'ed get a shock.

Hare's are amazing mammals, no way will Shannon airport out live the hare.

I have dealt and worked with Shannon Development in its halcyon days,and believe you me they were far more professional than the lack of lustre in the present airport management structure.

There's job's and lively hood's at stake and it's in the hands of around 5 inviduals keeping thousands of businesses and potential customers hostage because they're unable to bite the bullet and make a decision...

They are managing directors and CEOs and they're hiring consultants to tell them what they're being paid to figure out.

For the sake of all the pagan god's, you couldn't make this up seriously..

Berty

To be fair they're not/can't be expected to be subject matter experts in everything, no business has experts in every discipline and I've yet to work a company who hasn't hired in some sort of external consultants for one reason or another.

This is not a post supporting the board either but an observation on hiring people to advise on matters.

Clareman

nthclare wrote: »

Not if nature has its way, hare's are protected and if I caught anyone interfering with hare's on my land they'ed get a shock.

Hare's are amazing mammals, no way will Shannon airport out live the hare.

I have dealt and worked with Shannon Development in its halcyon days,and believe you me they were far more professional than the lack of lustre in the present airport management structure.

There's job's and lively hood's at stake and it's in the hands of around 5 inviduals keeping thousands of businesses and potential customers hostage because they're unable to bite the bullet and make a decision...

They are managing directors and CEOs and they're hiring consultants to tell them what they're being paid to figure out.

For the sake of all the pagan god's, you couldn't make this up seriously..

Sorry but you are saying that management arent willing to bite the bullet and make a decision but they've made a decision to make huge cost savings in salaries. You are also complaining that they are getting outside expert advice rather than believing they know best. Management consultancy is a HUGE business and every top company uses them when a big decision is needed to be made.

Both those things to me would be a sign of a very well ran company

RocketRaccoon

Clareman wrote: »

Sorry but you are saying that management arent willing to bite the bullet and make a decision but they've made a decision to make huge cost savings in salaries. You are also complaining that they are getting outside expert advice rather than believing they know best. Management consultancy is a HUGE business and every top company uses them when a big decision is needed to be made.

Both those things to me would be a sign of a very well ran company

You think Shannon airport and the heritage group are a very well ran company?

nthclare

Clareman wrote: »

Sorry but you are saying that management arent willing to bite the bullet and make a decision but they've made a decision to make huge cost savings in salaries. You are also complaining that they are getting outside expert advice rather than believing they know best. Management consultancy is a HUGE business and every top company uses them when a big decision is needed to be made.

Both those things to me would be a sign of a very well ran company

Seriously, a well run company which went through so much management from middle management to CEO's

Chopping and changing the status quo, they never listen to the people on the ground and Neil Pakey had great ideas but sadly they changed it around again and hired someone who ran off to run a marina.

They had a lot of chance's and they still couldn't run it properly.

They could do with someone like Mark Nolan from Dromoland Castle who knows how to run a business and can manage an establishment.

Stanford

nthclare wrote: »

Seriously, a well run company which went through so much management from middle management to CEO's

Chopping and changing the status quo, they never listen to the people on the ground and Neil Pakey had great ideas but sadly they changed it around again and hired someone who ran off to run a marina.

They had a lot of chance's and they still couldn't run it properly.

They could do with someone like Mark Nolan from Dromoland Castle who knows how to run a business and can manage an establishment.

Mark Nolan would be a superior intellect compared to these muppets

nthclare

Stanford wrote: »

Mark Nolan would be a superior intellect compared to these muppets

Absolutely he's very well spoken knows how to engage in a professional manner etc

All I hear from the Shannon group is the same mantra, like it's off a hymn sheet.

But maybe they're boxing clever and they'll pull a golden goose out of the hat lol

Yes Mark Nolan is a very astute business man and I've seen him in action and he isn't afraid to get his hands dirty thats for sure.

He leads by example.

Clareman

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

You think Shannon airport and the heritage group are a very well ran company?

Up until COVID the Airport was on the way up and the Heritage was turning a corner, personally I had bought a season pass for the Heritage and they were opening more attractions. I actually had a conversation with someone at the start of the year talking about how brining full control of the Cliff's under the overall banner could have a great impact.

Now, the airport is showing that with no income that it's not a viable entity and it needs to make changes, the Heritage hopefully can get a bounce from the staycation.

The other parts of the Shannon Group are doing very well on their own, Shannon Commercial Properties and IASC are more than holding their own.

To answer you question direction, I do not think that Shannon Airport is well ran but I would say that the reason for that is a lot of people taking advantages of the status quo down there and that it was going to be extremely difficult to change a lot of the issues down there. I think the Heritage was going well, as I said I have paid for a season ticket and I am a big fan of Bunratty/Johns/Folk Park, the fact that more properties were being added I see as a good sign.

Clareman

nthclare wrote: »

Seriously, a well run company which went through so much management from middle management to CEO's

Chopping and changing the status quo, they never listen to the people on the ground and Neil Pakey had great ideas but sadly they changed it around again and hired someone who ran off to run a marina.

They had a lot of chance's and they still couldn't run it properly.

They could do with someone like Mark Nolan from Dromoland Castle who knows how to run a business and can manage an establishment.

Unfortunately the people on the ground are 1 of the reason the airport is in the state that it's in, there's an awful lot of people there that just do as they always did because that's what they always did and will never do anything differently.

I think Neil Pakey was a massive loss to the airport and looking back it was a big mistake to let him go. I'm not going to say that Mary Considine is the best person for the job, looking from the outside in she seems to have been at the right place at the right time a few times and has been given the opportunity, pre-COVID things were starting to turn around but if it's going to survive post-COVID I don't think changing leadership now would do any good.

Brennans Row

nthclare wrote: »

They could do with someone like Mark Nolan from Dromoland Castle who knows how to run a business and can manage an establishment.

If he could produce a covid-19 vaccination then he would not only save Shannon from potential ruin but the whole aviation and tourism industry.

Seriously, with no wealthy Americans visitors around he must be confronted with the same problems of getting Dromoland financially through this pandemic.

JCX BXC

Neil Pakey, the man who basically handed the airport to Ryanair yet again in 2013, only for them to remove most of those routes within a few years? Big loss I'm sure....

Lots of bashing of management here, however one must wonder if most of the noise is simply disgruntled, heavily unionised employees. I'm no great fan of the current management but it's not like these issues just popped up when COVID arrived.

Let's look at how the airport was looking pre-covid. 3 new city destination routes, Vienna, Barcelona and Paris. Very nice destinations to add to an airports portfolio of routes, and especially nice considering 2 of them were Aer Lingus. Shannon has desperately cried out for European city destinations, and they had achieved exactly that. Achieving growth in the other 2 markets is much more difficult. Transatlantic may be struggling, but that's much more an issue of aircraft availability than airport management. UK routes are also struggling, but again, weak pound and Brexit uncertainty are to blame, not airport management.

There's lots of room for improvement, especially in the marketing department. Any attempts at social media engagement appear half arsed, uncoordinated and activity seems to fizzle out at times. A good marketing plan is needed, one that is comprehensive and followed through. From a tourism perspective, the airport needs to tie itself to a particular location, I feel emphasising its location in Clare and the wild Atlantic way is the best course of action here. Over the years I've seen some suggestions of tying the airport closer with Limerick City, however I feel that is a mistake, as it won't convince any of the local market to fly more than they do, but rather be a disservice, Limerick is not a particularly large tourist destination.

At the end of the day, the airport can only do so much. If people don't fly on the routes that airlines provide, they won't last.

Brennans Row

Clareman wrote: »

I think Neil Pakey was a massive loss to the airport and looking back it was a big mistake to let him go.

My own take on this, is that he had not enough rope to do what he wanted to do.

Because if he had, it would have ended up that the three airports in Munster would be cannibalizing each other.

Since Shannon and Cork are state owned airports, the department of Transport would call the shots at the end of the day.

Clareman

Again outside looking in, I thought Pakey did a good job on lowering Shannon's reliance on Aer Lingus and transatlantic, I don't know if he'd be the right person to run the Shannon group but he was a decent MD for the Airport.

My 2 cents, air travel is going to drop hugely post COVID, both in the amount of people travelling but also the amount of people being in an airport at the same time, we've all been in packed airports/shuttle buses, can't see that being allowed to continue with social distancing. Shannon has to be in a position to be able to adapt to the changes that are coming and having a workforce on 20 year old terms won't be able to support that.

In my opinion, for anyone working in the airport who is willing to do all they can to help the airport survive, do all you can do and suffer the 20% drop in salary, for those that don't want to be part of the survival, take the golden parachute and retrain for something else. That might sound harsh but expecting the airport to survive by just continuing the way it is just isn't feasible.

nthclare

Clareman wrote: »

Again outside looking in, I thought Pakey did a good job on lowering Shannon's reliance on Aer Lingus and transatlantic, I don't know if he'd be the right person to run the Shannon group but he was a decent MD for the Airport.

My 2 cents, air travel is going to drop hugely post COVID, both in the amount of people travelling but also the amount of people being in an airport at the same time, we've all been in packed airports/shuttle buses, can't see that being allowed to continue with social distancing. Shannon has to be in a position to be able to adapt to the changes that are coming and having a workforce on 20 year old terms won't be able to support that.

In my opinion, for anyone working in the airport who is willing to do all they can to help the airport survive, do all you can do and suffer the 20% drop in salary, for those that don't want to be part of the survival, take the golden parachute and retrain for something else. That might sound harsh but expecting the airport to survive by just continuing the way it is just isn't feasible.

You hit the nail on the head, take the golden parachute.

There's a great opportunity with that package,one could retrain and take a different direction in life and the opportunity to get that much money doesn't come very much.

If I was working there is take the money and re-educate myself, maybe travel a bit.

With that much money in the bank it's enough to apply for a degree or a diploma and have loads left over.

Clareman

nthclare wrote: »

You hit the nail on the head, take the golden parachute.

There's a great opportunity with that package,one could retrain and take a different direction in life and the opportunity to get that much money doesn't come very much.

If I was working there is take the money and re-educate myself, maybe travel a bit.

With that much money in the bank it's enough to apply for a degree or a diploma and have loads left over.

You'd be a long time saving the money on offer and they'll also have job seekers benefit to cushion the blow, a lot of people down there know they'll never get as good/easy a job again so they'll do all they can to protect what they have now regardless of the impact to everyone else.

RocketRaccoon

nthclare wrote: »

You hit the nail on the head, take the golden parachute.

There's a great opportunity with that package,one could retrain and take a different direction in life and the opportunity to get that much money doesn't come very much.

If I was working there is take the money and re-educate myself, maybe travel a bit.

With that much money in the bank it's enough to apply for a degree or a diploma and have loads left over.

The majority of people directly employed by the airport would be in their 50s/60s. Personally I think its madness for any of them that are in that age group not to take the money but that's just me.

If the option was given to me I would absolutely take it and run but unfortunately I'm not directly employed by the airport.

AnRothar

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

The majority of people directly employed by the airport would be in their 50s/60s. Personally I think its madness for any of them that are in that age group not to take the money.

dynamic
Personal circumstances have a huge impact on the decision.

Clareman

AnRothar wrote: »

dynamic
Personal circumstances have a huge impact on the decision.

Absolutely, everyone that is being put in the position to make a decision here has to weigh up all their options and make a decision as to what is best for them, for some it will be best to take the pay out, others it will be to take the pay cut but they'll all have to make their own decision. Although that's not the best position to be in at least they have a choice, a lot of people have been in this position in the past and they weren't given a choice, they just got the door and statutory redundancy.

Carazy

JCX BXC wrote: »

Lots of bashing of management here, however one must wonder if most of the noise is simply disgruntled, heavily unionised employees. I'm no great fan of the current management but it's not like these issues just popped up when COVID arrived

You've got the nail on the head here with this point. Costs have been too high in certain sectors of the airport staff for years especially at times when there is barely a breeze through the doors.

AnRothar

Carazy wrote: »

You've got the nail on the head here with this point. Costs have been too high in certain sectors of the airport staff for years especially at times when there is barely a breeze through the doors.

Open 24 hours requires a large amount of staff.
Large physical infrastructure requires both staff and maintenance.

Brennans Row

Shannon - Commercial Movements (IAA)

|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Sept|Oct|Nov|Dec|Total
2015|1,253|1,026|1,277|1,454|1,725|2,169|2,058|1,728|1,780|1,645|1,283|1,312|18,710
2016|1,222|1,128|1,390|1,488|1,807|2,031|2,032|1,834|1,839|1,698|1,353|1,327|19,149
2017|1,291|1,215|1,429|1,446|1,776|1,975|1,949|1,885|1,778|1,796|1,440|1,316|19,296
2018|1,301|1,200|1,368|1,575|1,829|2,098|2,104|1,949|2,066|1,858|1,385|1,369|20,102
2019|1,246|1,087|1,320|1,444|1,836|1,951|1,976|1,843|1,974|1,738|1,254|1,191|18,833
2020|1,221|1,179|691|261|238|322|||||||
Change|-2.0%|+8.5%|-47.7%|-81.9%|-87.0%|-83.5%|||||||

Limpy

Shannon is a great Airport to travel to and from. I hope they sort everything out.

Are US preclearence staff paid and housed by the Airport?

Cookiemunster

Limpy wrote: »

Shannon is a great Airport to travel to and from. I hope they sort everything out.

Are US preclearence staff paid and housed by the Airport?

They are US Customs and Border Protection staff. The US government picks up that tab.

Limpy

Cookiemunster wrote: »

They are US Customs and Border Protection staff. The US government picks up that tab.

That's good, atleast the preclearence will remain when things resume. When the US is not put on the green list would they pull them from Shannon untill it's removed.

Clareman

So ~30% of the airports turnover is spent on wages, or it takes 5 years profit to cover 1 years wages, that's fine when it's a going concern but when 97% of income is removed then something has to change

https://clarechampion.ie/average-pay-of-e58k-at-shannon-airport/

JamesBond2010

Clareman wrote: »

So ~30% of the airports turnover is spent on wages, or it takes 5 years profit to cover 1 years wages, that's fine when it's a going concern but when 97% of income is removed then something has to change

https://clarechampion.ie/average-pay-of-e58k-at-shannon-airport/

Just to say the average wage quoted way off of what most employees are being paid. Thats more like what upstairs are being paid.Thats nearly double some workers yearly salary as well

ISOP

According to the Clare Champion this week, Ryanair are pulling uk routes for August and September

Masala

Clareman wrote: »

So ~30% of the airports turnover is spent on wages, or it takes 5 years profit to cover 1 years wages, that's fine when it's a going concern but when 97% of income is removed then something has to change

https://clarechampion.ie/average-pay-of-e58k-at-shannon-airport/

Not a good Stat to compare to Turnover. If fuel sales was day €10m of this €46m and if the price of fuel doubles in 2021 for same quantities (and all other revenue stays the same) - Turnover in 2021 will be €56 and if wages stay at €14.1... then wages will only be 25% of turnover!

So wages down from 30% to 25% of turnover.... happy days???? Don't think so!