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How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

Tokyo

Mod:

Continuation of the How long before Irish reunification? thread.

Please note that all mod warnings, actions and threadbans from the previous thread carry across to here.

I have updated the OP of this thread with a list of threadbanned users, I would advise posters to check on this before posting in the thread again or a forum sanction will be imposed for breaching same.

If you want to discuss your threadban feel free to PM the banning mod (or myself if you can't remember who that is and I'll point you in the right direction).

Threadbanned Users:
blanch152
Randy Archer
Natterjack from Kerry
littlevillage

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downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Have you ever read anything as ridiculous?
Apparently if you paint your kerbstones red white and blue that means you are in Britain, so maybe it is not hard to see the thinking.

So how would you decide the geographical area that should be allowed self determination and what would determine an area that should not be allowed to self determination?

BonnieSituation

Bambi wrote: »

Oul GDG would know all about overcompensating and people who are born in one country yearning to adopt another countrys identity

I bet you he can't even make coddle.

Dyr

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So you're ONLY Irish if you're born here?

I'd suggest you have a chat with Kevin Kilbane, James Connolly, Jim Larkin Liam MacCarthy and Mick McCarthy in that case.

Oul GDG would know all about overcompensating and people who are born in one country yearning to adopt another countrys identity

Dyr

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Let's say a pro-UI vote passes, what then for the most belligerent Unionists? What would their demands be if they threatened to cause trouble?

Be specific and remember Unionists are a minority in Derry, Belfast, Newry and four of the six counties.

Have a go.

It worth remembering that Nationalists were also a minority back in the the 70s and they still managed to make **** of the place...

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Have you ever read anything as ridiculous?
Apparently if you paint your kerbstones red white and blue that means you are in Britain, so maybe it is not hard to see the thinking.

I dunno. GDG is giving him a run for his money above with today's nonsense.

BonnieSituation

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You are missing the point completely McGowan overcompensates for being English and tries to be more Irish and Republican. A classic case of a 2nd Generation 'Irish' self hating English person - who tries to be more Irish than the Irish = over compensation.
In fact he said he would have joined the IRA only for music.

For the record. In all honesty I don't view any of those lads you mentioned as really Irish. Yeah they maybe second generation Irish, but are/were plastic paddies when all is said and done. It comes back to my point of Irish people having way more in common with Britain than they like to admit. Yet people claim 'Brits out' to show how Irish they are. In other words being Irish = Brits out - to them.

Ah would you ever give up now.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

Yes it would and I know you wouldn't do that.

So why is it acceptable for you to suggest that the population of the Falls should just move?

I'd argue that it's just as obnoxious.

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I relocated for economic reasons, Rob. The GFA has nothing to do with it. I was Irish before the GFA was signed. Not really relevant to telling my parents that they should just move. As an Irish person, it is no different to me than it would be for you moving from London to Liverpool.

Choice is the key thing here. Would you agree that it would be an obnoxious and downright unpleasant thing for me to tell Downcow that he should just move back to Britain?

Yes it would and I know you wouldn't do that.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you relocate to Ireland from NI,which you have a right to do as under the terms of the GFA you can identify as Irish or British?

There has never been an issue in moving around Ireland Rob...the mental gymnastics require doing when you have to pretend it is as British as Finchley.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you relocate to Ireland from NI,which you have a right to do as under the terms of the GFA you can identify as Irish or British?

I relocated for economic reasons, Rob. The GFA has nothing to do with it. I was Irish before the GFA was signed. Not really relevant to telling my parents that they should just move. As an Irish person, it is no different to me than it would be for you moving from London to Liverpool.

Choice is the key thing here. Would you agree that it would be an obnoxious and downright unpleasant thing for me to tell Downcow that he should just move back to Britain?

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Ah right, so my parents in Fermanagh, along with most of the population of that county should just leave the homes they've bought and paid for, the communities they've grown up in and their careers rather than having a legitimate aspiration towards unity?

Why do I get the feeling you'd be outraged by the same attitude being applied to telling, 'The Brits' to go back to Britain?

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you relocate to Ireland from NI,which you have a right to do as under the terms of the GFA you can identify as Irish or British?

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

They would`nt need to vote to join Ireland they could just move there could`nt they?

Ah right, so my parents in Fermanagh, along with most of the population of that county should just leave the homes they've bought and paid for, the communities they've grown up in and their careers rather than having a legitimate aspiration towards unity?

Why do I get the feeling you'd be outraged by the same attitude being applied to telling, 'The Brits' to go back to Britain?

RobMc59

downcow wrote: »

Yeah they just need to relax, live and let live.
This is the difference in republicans and the rest.
They won’t allow the people of NI to self determination.
I am happy for any group to be in control of their future.
If the people of the falls road voted to join ROI and ROI agreed to accept them then I would say , fair play let them leave NI and join ROI

They would`nt need to vote to join Ireland they could just move there could`nt they?

work

downcow wrote: »

....
If the people of the falls road voted to join ROI and ROI agreed to accept them then I would say , fair play let them leave NI and join ROI

I'm not sure that will work so haw many roads will become part of Poland or Romania if you applied that. Sure most of London would have to be governed by non-european countries.

Perhaps I'm missing your point as surely yoiu would suggest something so half-baked

Junkyard Tom

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Hold on, in your latest cop-out on the GFA, you're now arguing for partition on a street-by-street basis?!?

DC knows that once a UI is voted for the NI project will be in the bin of history for good. The pandemic has demonstrated perfectly the awkwardness of having a contested jurisdiction in the northeast with the rest of Ireland being led by Dublin. Derry followed Dublin's lead and locked down before the rest of the north and it hasn't had a COVID19 case in over 30 days.

Brexit too has shown us the that the British question will be a problem until it solved, Jeffrey Donaldson was speaking today about the Peace Process being at risk over trading arrangements - a thinly veiled threat if you ask me.

The border is gone and it isn't coming back, there is one direction of travel in all of this, time for Unionists and their handful of partitionist friends in the south to smell the coffee.

jm08

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You are missing the point completely McGowan overcompensates for being English and tries to be more Irish and Republican. A classic case of a 2nd Generation 'Irish' self hating English person - who tries to be more Irish than the Irish = over compensation.
In fact he said he would have joined the IRA only for music.

For the record. In all honesty I don't view any of those lads you mentioned as really Irish. Yeah they maybe second generation Irish, but are/were plastic paddies when all is said and done. It comes back to my point of Irish people having way more in common with Britain than they like to admit. Yet people claim 'Brits out' to show how Irish they are. In other words being Irish = Brits out - to them.

You clearly know nothing about Shane McGowan and his family background. Both his parents are Irish and he spent all his summers in Tipperary when growing up and thats where he got involved in playing music. When he got famous he actually lived there and has been living in Dublin now for a long, long time.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Hold on, in your latest cop-out on the GFA, you're now arguing for partition on a street-by-street basis?!?

Have you ever read anything as ridiculous?
Apparently if you paint your kerbstones red white and blue that means you are in Britain, so maybe it is not hard to see the thinking.

RobMc59

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You are missing the point completely McGowan overcompensates for being English and tries to be more Irish and Republican. A classic case of a 2nd Generation 'Irish' self hating English person - who tries to be more Irish than the Irish = over compensation.
In fact he said he would have joined the IRA only for music.

For the record. In all honesty I don't view any of those lads you mentioned as really Irish. Yeah they maybe second generation Irish, but are/were plastic paddies when all is said and done. It comes back to my point of Irish people having way more in common with Britain than they like to admit. Yet people claim 'Brits out' to show how Irish they are. In other words being Irish = Brits out - to them.

If you asked 100 people is Shane MacGowan Irish or British I doubt many would say he is British and as both his parents were Irish he is entitled to say he is Irish in the eyes of the Irish government.
But if you still don`t want him,we`ll have him!:)

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Yeah they just need to relax, live and let live.
This is the difference in republicans and the rest.
They won’t allow the people of NI to self determination.
I am happy for any group to be in control of their future.
If the people of the falls road voted to join ROI and ROI agreed to accept them then I would say , fair play let them leave NI and join ROI

Hold on, in your latest cop-out on the GFA, you're now arguing for partition on a street-by-street basis?!?

gormdubhgorm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So you're ONLY Irish if you're born here?

I'd suggest you have a chat with Kevin Kilbane, James Connolly, Jim Larkin Liam MacCarthy and Mick McCarthy in that case.

You are missing the point completely McGowan overcompensates for being English and tries to be more Irish and Republican. A classic case of a 2nd Generation 'Irish' self hating English person - who tries to be more Irish than the Irish = over compensation.
In fact he said he would have joined the IRA only for music.

For the record. In all honesty I don't view any of those lads you mentioned as really Irish. Yeah they maybe second generation Irish, but are/were plastic paddies when all is said and done. It comes back to my point of Irish people having way more in common with Britain than they like to admit. Yet people claim 'Brits out' to show how Irish they are. In other words being Irish = Brits out - to them.

RobMc59

downcow wrote: »

Yeah they just need to relax, live and let live.
This is the difference in republicans and the rest.
They won’t allow the people of NI to self determination.
I am happy for any group to be in control of their future.
If the people of the falls road voted to join ROI and ROI agreed to accept them then I would say , fair play let them leave NI and join ROI

Unfortunately for the rest of us,they see themselves as experts in all matters whether it's a UI, brexit or coronavirus!

downcow

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I agree wholeheartedly with this bit most of those who seem to calling for a UI are doing so with little thought for unintended consequences, or how major issues will be dealt with.

Most of the discussion seems to wheel around to some sort of misty eyed view about a UI - a birthright doctrine. And/or releasing Ireland from the yoke of British oppression in 'the occupied six' and so on. Little thought is given to practicalities of what a UI would mean.

I am reminded of a lyric written by Shane McGowan from the song -If I Should Fall From Grace With God.

Ironically articulated by an Englishman with a faux Irish singing accent. (who tried to be more Irish than the Irish)
'This land was always ours
Was the proud land of our fathers
It belongs to us and them
Not to any of the others'

This is the Republican mindset in a nutshell no compromise its our land, if you don't like get out. But they are too blinded by doctrine and dogma to see that this attitude actually hinders the prospect of a UI rather than encourages it.

All you get from republicans is the occasional wishy-washy statement about inclusiveness in a UI - but the truth is they are just words it is not what they want.

Yeah they just need to relax, live and let live.
This is the difference in republicans and the rest.
They won’t allow the people of NI to self determination.
I am happy for any group to be in control of their future.
If the people of the falls road voted to join ROI and ROI agreed to accept them then I would say , fair play let them leave NI and join ROI

BonnieSituation

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I agree wholeheartedly with this bit most of those who seem to calling for a UI are doing so with little thought for unintended consequences, or how major issues will be dealt with.

Most of the discussion seems to wheel around to some sort of misty eyed view about a UI - a birthright doctrine. And/or releasing Ireland from the yoke of British oppression in 'the occupied six' and so on. Little thought is given to practicalities of what a UI would mean.

I am reminded of a lyric written by Shane McGowan from the song -If I Should Fall From Grace With God.

Ironically articulated by an Englishman with a faux Irish singing accent. (who tried to be more Irish than the Irish)
'This land was always ours
Was the proud land of our fathers
It belongs to us and them
Not to any of the others'

This is the Republican mindset in a nutshell no compromise its our land, if you don't like get out. But they are too blinded by doctrine and dogma to see that this attitude actually hinders the prospect of a UI rather than encourages it.

All you get from republicans is the occasional wishy-washy statement about inclusiveness in a UI - but the truth is they are just words it is not what they want.

So you're ONLY Irish if you're born here?

I'd suggest you have a chat with Kevin Kilbane, James Connolly, Jim Larkin Liam MacCarthy and Mick McCarthy in that case.

gormdubhgorm

Randy Archer wrote: »

For all yer waffling , not one of ye have talked about substantial issues about achieving UI or what to do when it happens.

Nothing about say

1. How many seats for Parliament, where it would sit ,

2. How will Nordies be bribed (it would be required) with lost of Stormont and it’s buildings to Dublin - centre of universe

3. How do we cut the soon to then bloating public sector and civil service, which will become highly politicised between the North and south

4. How do you balance funding like Limerick n Cork and Galway and rural Ireland, when , without doubt, northern towns and cities will need a Bigger leg up - Eu finds will only go so far

5. How to get the peace balls in Belfast down - zero consideration is given to that , zero . The city is still divided

6. Thorny issues of “flegs” and culture - we all rightly disapproved of FG flirting with the idea of honouring RIC men lately

7. Sf dealing with it’s past ie releasing information that it does have on the whereabouts of people’s bodies that are still missing

8. SF continued and unashamed links to IRA personnel and parading the likes of Bobby Sands And Joe O’Neill as one of their own and considering his ilk as if they were heroS , when they petty criminalS responsible for killing innocent people and damaging People’s business property

9. Nordies learning how to govern without the Unionist -Republican and Catholic - Proddie division

10. Nordies losing the NHS

Etc etc

I agree wholeheartedly with this bit most of those who seem to calling for a UI are doing so with little thought for unintended consequences, or how major issues will be dealt with.

Most of the discussion seems to wheel around to some sort of misty eyed view about a UI - a birthright doctrine. And/or releasing Ireland from the yoke of British oppression in 'the occupied six' and so on. Little thought is given to practicalities of what a UI would mean.

I am reminded of a lyric written by Shane McGowan from the song -If I Should Fall From Grace With God.

Ironically articulated by an Englishman with a faux Irish singing accent. (who tried to be more Irish than the Irish)

'This land was always ours
Was the proud land of our fathers
It belongs to us and them
Not to any of the others'

This is the Republican mindset in a nutshell no compromise its our land, if you don't like get out. But they are too blinded by doctrine and dogma to see that this attitude actually hinders the prospect of a UI rather than encourages it.

All you get from republicans is the occasional wishy-washy statement about inclusiveness in a UI - but the truth is they are just words it is not what they want.

RobMc59

Correct me if I`m wrong but I thought posting of PM`s from/to mods is`nt allowed.

FrancieBrady

Randy Archer wrote: »

Any other day, the band would be fished out by now because ye four would be running off crying ... oh what surprise since he got called out .

Seriously, what do sentences like this mean? You edited the post so you must be happy with it. Makes not the slightest bit of sense to me.

[Deleted User]

Randy Archer wrote: »

I have zero reason or obligation to bow down to IRA apologists like you ! You know and I know what you are and what you did

You have been told to talk to the mods , but you Have not . Go on . Maybe they will finally knock sense Into to you

You have claimed a mod told yous i reported your post....you have been unable to provide proof of this conversation or able to provide name of said mod,for me to further inquires......seems irrational to scream and demand proof off everyone else,when you cant be a big boy and provide proof of your own claims??

Any other day, the band would be fished out by now because ye four would be running off crying ... oh what surprise since he got called out

Im going to need some clarity as to.what the above "paragraph" is about,before i can further interact or respond to it

You and Francie seriously help. 12 hours plus a day 7 days a week , posting fantasy on the same topics and making up yer own rules as to facts and proofs ..

Only mainly post on weekend mate,but like i taught a screenshot of the conversation,where mod told you i reported your post,was a reasonable burden of proof to expect?

Randy Archer

Deleted User wrote: »

Its such a simple issue....he could sort this with 1 screenshot or simply name the mod

But wont ......i find his posts quite amusing,misguided in anger, ignorance of context,but nonetheless an interesting take on events

I have zero reason or obligation to bow down to IRA apologists like you ! You know and I know what you are and what you did

You have been told to talk to the mods , but you Have not . Go on . Maybe they will finally knock sense Into to you

Any other day, the band would be fished out by now because ye four would be running off crying ... oh what surprise since he got called out .

You and Francie seriously help. 12 hours plus a day 7 days a week , posting fantasy on the same topics and making up yer own rules as to facts and proofs ..

Randy Archer

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Given the level of discourse that Randy is capable of, I find it easier just to zoom past his posts and not engage. It makes it easier.

Another spoofer you dodged dealing with substance when caught out waffling

My god , ye IRA lovers are fierce sensitive when it suits

[Deleted User]

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Spreading discontent, fcuking up Brexit, Really?
Not sure about either of those, but I do know that of all the leaders up there she seems to be the strongest & most forthright.

Mate,she literally led unionists off a cliff and hardened community divisions in ways that will take years to repair over brexit....she fcuked up around covid,to extent the uda and uvf looked to dublin for advice in protecting their communities

Poor O'Neill got caught out in that whole sad & sorry IRA funeral fiasco, and now she's paying the price by being asked to say sorry, even if she's been told by HQ not to

Yous are privy to SF HQ internal communications,how??