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Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

Fratton Fred

To avoid derailing other SCD threads, I thought I'd add a Dun Laoghaire thread.

My main query, is does anyone know what is going on outside the train station? It looks like they are putting a crossing in twenty metres from the crossroads. Surely not?

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ted1

HopsAndJumps wrote: »

I live 20 seconds from where that photo was taken. The lanes are barely used though you can see in the photo that cars are backed up.

The traffic is a nightmare there now, I can't imagine when the schools are back.

It’s currently under construction, it’ll take a while to finish and for people to adjust their behaviour. My kids go to Scoil Lorcain and will be will be able to cycle there safely now. It’s great.

Tabnabs

Confirmation that the RNLI have issues with the new road layout.

https://afloat.ie/port-news/dun-laoghaire-news/item/46934-new-dun-laoghaire-cycle-lane-blocks-primary-access-route-to-lifeboat-station?mc_cid=10aa6fe6fc&mc_eid=cad3920467

ted1

Tabnabs wrote: »

Confirmation that the RNLI have issues with the new road layout.

https://afloat.ie/port-news/dun-laoghaire-news/item/46934-new-dun-laoghaire-cycle-lane-blocks-primary-access-route-to-lifeboat-station?mc_cid=10aa6fe6fc&mc_eid=cad3920467

I'm sure an easy fix can be obtained. The lane is 2.8M wide, they could simply be granted permission to use it when responding to emergencies.

qb123

Climate change and Covid 19 are combining to make this type of project necessary. Yes, it does involve some short term pain for drivers as they get used to new road layouts, but hopefully some will make the shift to walking and cycling instead - particularly for shorter journeys. If it increases the number of children cycling, that's even better news for traffic congestion and the future health of the nation. Carrying on as before wasn't an option: social distancing has reduced public transport capacity and congestion was already an issue before this happened, so increasing the numbers driving would only compound the mess that was there already. So something had to be done and somebody's nose was going to be out of joint whatever decision was taken. From a sustainability perspective, this looks like the right option.

Tabnabs

ted1 wrote: »

I'm sure an easy fix can be obtained. The lane is 2.8M wide, they could simply be granted permission to use it when responding to emergencies.

Volunteers in their personal cars, no blue lights or emergency vehicles. Your ad-hoc solution doesn't work.

Signore Fancy Pants

qb123 wrote: »

Climate change and Covid 19 are combining to make this type of project necessary.

Not really, in reality what positive tangible effect will it achieve? How does it compare to non compliance with industrialisation across the globe?

qb123 wrote: »

Yes, it does involve some short term pain for drivers as they get used to new road layouts, but hopefully some will make the shift to walking and cycling instead - particularly for shorter journeys.

I would wager "long term" pain. Until people just avoid DL altogether......again. I live a 10 minute drive away. If I go to DL to buy something that cant be carried in a small backpack, I will use the car. Not a chance will I walk, cycle or take the bus to DL. It generally takes a lot longer to do what you need to do unless going by car. Plus, using a bike or bus limits what you can buy.

In my case, I wont be willing to deal with any added traffic disruption, its the retailers that will miss out, not me. Hopefully the casual coffee cycle brigade will bring enough income it to sustain any driver drop offs.

qb123 wrote: »

If it increases the number of children cycling, that's even better news for traffic congestion and the future health of the nation.

Maybe

qb123 wrote: »

Carrying on as before wasn't an option: social distancing has reduced public transport capacity and congestion was already an issue before this happened, so increasing the numbers driving would only compound the mess that was there already.

Congestion was not a big issue, however this move will make it one.

If public transport is limited, people will drive. If traffic gets worse, people wont bother. They wont automatically get on the bike. They will just go somewhere else.

Social distancing? More congregations of pedestrians and cyclists does not help social distancing.

qb123 wrote: »

So something had to be done and somebody's nose was going to be out of joint whatever decision was taken. From a sustainability perspective, this looks like the right option.

Nothing needed to be done, this wont improve sustainability.

Larbre34

These are being publicised as "temporary" measures and indeed they are using the 'Temporary Closures' provision of the Road Traffic Acts to give them a statutory basis.

Seems like a lot of detailed physical works to me for a temporary measure. I do hope there isn't a 'fait accompli' being presented here. Could be the mother and father of a confrontation, legal or otherwise, over it yet.

My main focus of interest though is how they managed to eliminate a carriageway on a couple of kilometres of national primary route (N31 at Seapoint) without TII and the Department of Transport calling foul. Did they even know?

Blut2

I'm a driver but I fully support the on-going push towards pedestrianization/cyclization(?). I'd love to see both Blackrock main street and Dun Laoghaire main street fully pedestrianized and with lots of cafes/restaurants/pubs with outdoor seating. Retail is dying a death, so the only future for our coastal villages is going to be making them actually pleasant to walk around and sit down to relax in.

There are enough other roads (the Blackrock bypass in particular in Blackrock) people can use for driving with a small bit of lateral thinking.

pm1977x

I feel they're really sneaking this stuff in without any consultation or proper examination of the knock-on effects, pretending they're 'temporary' measures is fooling no-one, there's a very strong pro-cycling, anti-car agenda being pushed and actioned through the back door.

I walk to DL any time it's not raining, but if I'm doing the weekly shop or collecting something large from Argos or elsewhere I can't shove it on the back of my bike, I need vehicular access - or else we're going to force yet more retailers out of the town so it can be a cyclist's paradise of empty streets and boarded up shops?

errlloyd

pm1977x wrote: »

I walk to DL any time it's not raining, but if I'm doing the weekly shop or collecting something large from Argos or elsewhere I can't shove it on the back of my bike, I need vehicular access - or else we're going to force yet more retailers out of the town so it can be a cyclist's paradise of empty streets and boarded up shops?

Argos and Tesco are located beside two multistorey carparks that are nowhere near this cycle lane. I am sure you will still have plenty of vehicle access. And unless you're picking up groceries or a new TV at rush hour I am sure there will be a tolerable amount of traffic.

ted1

pm1977x wrote: »

I feel they're really sneaking this stuff in without any consultation or proper examination of the knock-on effects, pretending they're 'temporary' measures is fooling no-one, there's a very strong pro-cycling, anti-car agenda being pushed and actioned through the back door.

I walk to DL any time it's not raining, but if I'm doing the weekly shop or collecting something large from Argos or elsewhere I can't shove it on the back of my bike, I need vehicular access - or else we're going to force yet more retailers out of the town so it can be a cyclist's paradise of empty streets and boarded up shops?

Argos, Tesco and Supervalu all have multi story car parking and are not located by the Cycle path.

Some people may find it useful to switch to a cargo bike. Initial outlay could be perceived as being high. However if you remove annual insurance, tax, maintenance, NCT, petrol, parking etc it'll cover it costs very quickly

pm1977x

ted1 wrote: »

Argos, Tesco and Supervalu all have multi story car parking and are not located by the Cycle path.

Some people may find it useful to switch to a cargo bike. Initial outlay could be perceived as being high. However if you remove annual insurance, tax, maintenance, NCT, petrol, parking etc it'll cover it costs very quickly

Apologies, I meant to quote the person saying they'd love to see main street pedestrianised - this could make getting to Bloomfields and the main shopping centre car parks very difficult, as it is the side streets around Bloomfields are a mess of one way streets and restrictions.

I don't think a cargo bike would take a weekly shop, nor do I think I should be forced to buy in to this ethos pushed by the biking mafia running the county.

josip

I've worked in the York/Tivoli/Corrig Road section of DL for 17 years.I'd usually go for a walk at lunchtime in all directions, not just in the tourist zone.
Over the years I've commuted to work by car/Dart/cycle/walk combination.
I think this measure will definitely benefit the coastal tourist area a lot, mainly at weekends

The ice cream retailers will certainly approve.
But what about the hinterland that the tourists and the occasionalers don't see?
I can't see how this will benefit retailers or businesses up town, maybe it will.
On a personal level it also won't be of any benefit to my cycle commute.

If anything it will make it less pleasant by increasing the traffic congestion around the Tivoli Road area.

ted1

pm1977x wrote: »

I don't think a cargo bike would take a weekly shop, nor do I think I should be forced to buy in to this ethos pushed by the biking mafia running the county.

A cargo bike can easily take a weekly shop.
You are not being forced. They are taking one lane that is 3.6km long. There is still over a thousand kms of roads dedicated to cars in the DLRCoCo area.

Who are these biking mafia that you talk about? they are not very affective, its being severely under funded for years.

Seaswimmer

HopsAndJumps wrote: »

I live 20 seconds from where that photo was taken. The lanes are barely used though you can see in the photo that cars are backed up.

The traffic is a nightmare there now, I can't imagine when the schools are back.

But nothing has changed for traffic in that direction so you cant blame the new cycle path for that tailback. Maybe its traffic light phases, volumes, day of the week , time ect.

Signore Fancy Pants

Seaswimmer wrote: »

But nothing has changed for traffic in that direction so you cant blame the new cycle path for that tailback. Maybe its traffic light phases, volumes, day of the week , time ect.

Not entirely accurate.

Any vehicles coming or going onto Seapoint Avenue from many of the local residential roads are forced to turn left. Therefore anyone who intends to go towards DL, now now must do so by going towards Blackrock, this certainly has made a change to the traffic in that direction.

Glencarraig

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Not entirely accurate.

Any vehicles coming or going onto Seapoint Avenue from many of the local residential roads are forced to turn left. Therefore anyone who intends to go towards DL, now now must do so by going towards Blackrock, this certainly has made a change to the traffic in that direction.

Get used to this kinda thing. I have a crazy situation where I live (close to The Leopardstown Inn). If I am in Foxrock village and I want to drive home I am forced to go down Westminister Road onto the N11 and drive towards Stillorgan and turn left to go up Brewery Road and go left at the pub. All this because I can only turn left from Torquay Road and am not permitted to turn right from Leopardstown Road to Leopardstown Avenue. Since the roundabout was removed at the enterance to the Industrial estate I cannot turn right down Brewery Road either. Some genius in County Hall is getting well paid for making crazy decisions like this.

[Deleted User]

Glencarraig wrote: »

Get used to this kinda thing. I have a crazy situation where I live (close to The Leopardstown Inn). If I am in Foxrock village and I want to drive home I am forced to go down Westminister Road onto the N11 and drive towards Stillorgan and turn left to go up Brewery Road and go left at the pub. All this because I can only turn left from Torquay Road and am not permitted to turn right from Leopardstown Road to Leopardstown Avenue. Since the roundabout was removed at the enterance to the Industrial estate I cannot turn right down Brewery Road either. Some genius in County Hall is getting well paid for making crazy decisions like this.

It's not all about you. The Industrial Estate Business Park has pretty big numbers of cars going in and out, and this junction also has traffic going to Vodafone in Central Park or onto the M50. It's not unusual that routes with small amounts of traffic will be inconvenienced slightly in situations like this. What does it cost you - three minutes maybe? Have you thought about taking a bike to Foxrock instead?

Glencarraig

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's not all about you. The Industrial Estate Business Park has pretty big numbers of cars going in and out, and this junction also has traffic going to Vodafone in Central Park or onto the M50. It's not unusual that routes with small amounts of traffic will be inconvenienced slightly in situations like this. What does it cost you - three minutes maybe? Have you thought about taking a bike to Foxrock instead?

Never said it was all about me, it applies to any of the 1000 odd houses in the area. The council allow the "chosen two" houses opposite the Leop Rd/Leop Ave junction to proceed whatever way they like leaving their gateways but the Gardai regularly pull people making the illegal right turn through the gap in the poles left for the aforementioned "chosen two". When the right turn from Leop Rd to Brewery was stopped any traffic (and there is a lot) wanting to access Brewery Road was routed through Leopardstown Avenue (a residential area) which has now become a racetrack. This road has a creche and is also used by residents of St Josephs and The Ann Sullivan Centre. No consideration or consultation with the residents or residents association. By the way, it would be difficult to bring home 50 ltrs of unleaded on a bike.

[Deleted User]

Glencarraig wrote: »

Never said it was all about me, it applies to any of the 1000 odd houses in the area. The council allow the "chosen two" houses opposite the Leop Rd/Leop Ave junction to proceed whatever way they like leaving their gateways but the Gardai regularly pull people making the illegal right turn through the gap in the poles left for the aforementioned "chosen two". When the right turn from Leop Rd to Brewery was stopped any traffic (and there is a lot) wanting to access Brewery Road was routed through Leopardstown Avenue (a residential area) which has now become a racetrack. This road has a creche and is also used by residents of St Josephs and The Ann Sullivan Centre. No consideration or consultation with the residents or residents association. By the way, it would be difficult to bring home 50 ltrs of unleaded on a bike.

So how long does the diversion take you?

pm1977x

ted1 wrote: »

A cargo bike can easily take a weekly shop.
You are not being forced. They are taking one lane that is 3.6km long. There is still over a thousand kms of roads dedicated to cars in the DLRCoCo area.

Who are these biking mafia that you talk about? they are not very affective, its being severely under funded for years.

They are taking many, many lanes, see also the Blackrock village one way scheme and the roads mentioned by other locals above, it's a land grab by these cycle fanatics who are now in charge, I agree previous cycling measures were under funded and half arsed but now they've lost the run of themselves. When voting time comes around again this won't be forgotten.

rubadub

Glencarraig wrote: »

Gardai regularly pull people making the illegal right turn through the gap in the poles left for the aforementioned "chosen two".

I'm amazed they have not copped on to put proper poles in that area, it could be the row of breakable ones and just 3 or 4 proper ones. In case people are wondering the "gap" is plastic poles which have been driven over, or maybe ripped out by hand or with tools.

I am agnostic about the poles being there by the way, just find it utterly ridiculous hearing the gardai are having to piss away time on this. If the plastic poles simple had brillo pads properly attached nobody would dare ruin their pride & joy(ride).

I thought part of the reason to stop this turn was to stop people pissing through the housing estate on their way to sandyford ind. estate. I have seen "boy racer" types, if they are stuck in traffic and get a break like that they tend to absolutely floor it -even though it can end up taking the same time or even longer they just think they are winning if they get some speed in.

ted1

pm1977x wrote: »

They are taking many, many lanes, see also the Blackrock village one way scheme and the roads mentioned by other locals above, it's a land grab by these cycle fanatics who are now in charge, I agree previous cycling measures were under funded and half arsed but now they've lost the run of themselves. When voting time comes around again this won't be forgotten.

Ok let’s include Blackrock. That’s 4.6 km in total. What other roads are they taking?
Several thousand homes going into Cherrywood, several hundred going into shankill, several hundred going into the Blake’s site, several hundred going into the leisureplrx site, several hundred going into the Monkstown toad site , 10 acres for sale on the rock road. No room to build new roads.the infrastructure can’t support the existing numbers , displacing private cars with bikes / electric scooters etc and public transport is the only way to move foreword

ted1

pm1977x wrote: »

They are taking many, many lanes, see also the Blackrock village one way scheme and the roads mentioned by other locals above, it's a land grab by these cycle fanatics who are now in charge, I agree previous cycling measures were under funded and half arsed but now they've lost the run of themselves. When voting time comes around again this won't be forgotten.

Ok let’s include Blackrock. That’s 4.6 km in total. What other roads are they taking? Are they not just putting in a cycle path where the road is wide enough to accommodate it?
Several thousand homes going into Cherrywood, several hundred going into shankill, several hundred going into the Blake’s site, several hundred going into the leisureplrx site, several hundred going into the Monkstown toad site , 10 acres for sale on the rock road. No room to build new roads.the infrastructure can’t support the existing numbers , displacing private cars with bikes / electric scooters etc and public transport is the only way to move foreword

Signore Fancy Pants

ted1 wrote: »

Ok let’s include Blackrock. That’s 4.6 km in total. What other roads are they taking?
Several thousand homes going into Cherrywood, several hundred going into shankill, several hundred going into the Blake’s site, several hundred going into the leisureplrx site, several hundred going into the Monkstown toad site , 10 acres for sale on the rock road. No room to build new roads.the infrastructure can’t support the existing numbers , displacing private cars with bikes / electric scooters etc and public transport is the only way to move foreword

Which is why they should be prioritising in bringing the existing cycle infrastructure up to an acceptable standard, not a coastal route designed for the leisure market to bring life back to DL. Especially taking into account the financial wastage of a "temporary measure".

The N11 and the Rock Rd have substandard cycle infrastructure, it's appalling.

This is coming from a guy who used to have a regular 120km cycle commute. I felt safer on the N7 with trucks whizzing by me than I did on the Rock Road.

ted1

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Which is why they should be prioritising in bringing the existing cycle infrastructure up to an acceptable standard, not a coastal route designed for the leisure market to bring life back to DL. Especially taking into account the financial wastage of a "temporary measure".

The N11 and the Rock Rd have substandard cycle infrastructure, it's appalling.

This is coming from a guy who used to have a regular 120km cycle commute. I felt safer on the N7 with trucks whizzing by me than I did on the Rock Road.

I do a 60km commute each day. From killiney to the airport and back. I know the routes well

The N11 is being upgraded and it’s really only bad at the Dublin City council side. And by foxrock church.

I can use the new coastal route to commute to instead of my present route through deansgrange ( go out the coast road over the east link and back by the Samuel Beckett and N11) The rock road isn’t to bad, they need to sort out the Tara towers stretch but with food road positioning is ok. I used to continue to Shelbourne rose but now cross over Merrion Gate. That badly needs an upgrade.

My kids school is in Monkstown and there will use the coastal cycle path which in the long run will create a generation of cyclists who commute.
The funds are coming from central government, do the council still have the same budget to fix other cycle paths, except the programme for government has increased that allocation

Mav11

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Not entirely accurate.

Any vehicles coming or going onto Seapoint Avenue from many of the local residential roads are forced to turn left. Therefore anyone who intends to go towards DL, now now must do so by going towards Blackrock, this certainly has made a change to the traffic in that direction.

For a short distance surely? They can turn up Alma or one of the other roads to get onto the Monkstown Rd and then to DL.

Marcusm

My only crib is I wish they had left the traffic running out of town along the coast road as the view is so beautiful. By contrast, routing the traffic into town that way does not permit the same aspect of the sea. A little thing.

Mav11

On a related topic, the N31 was given national road status due to traffic from the ferry port. As that is now gone, should it now be designated a regional (R) road? I'm not sure if it would have any practical implications for the current discussion, but it might help reduce traffic.

Signore Fancy Pants

Mav11 wrote: »

For a short distance surely? They can turn up Alma or one of the other roads to get onto the Monkstown Rd and then to DL.

Yeah thats true, I stand corrected.